Swapping engines
- Thread starter Arp4570
- Start date
Ha, ha...how much money do I need to keep me happy?
Are you doing it down by the creek, or in a well equipped shop?
Are you an experienced mechanic or did you learn how to pick up a screwdriver only yesterday?
More information might get you a reasonable answer...
I can do it in about 13-14 hours, and that is removing the old engine and installing a brand new identical engine (that actually runs). Includes time to remove the loader, extract any broken bolts from the bellhousing, etc.
Why would you post such a response, what's your point?Ha, ha...how much money do I need to keep me happy?
Are you doing it down by the creek, or in a well equipped shop?
Are you an experienced mechanic or did you learn how to pick up a screwdriver only yesterday?
More information might get you a reasonable answer...
The point was that the OP asked a question that really could not be answered very accurately with the information provided.
Lugbolt can do it in 15 hours, me, probably 15 days. Which answer relates to the capabilities of the OP? If you can tell from the original post, good for you.
If you couldn't answer the question if I gave all the information you wanted then there's no reason for you to post anything
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
As Henro says there's a LOT of 'unknowns'... so actual time to 'swap out engines' could be 15 hr or 15 dayze...
Big deals for me is the 2nd( good) engine on a crate or still in another tractor ?
Are they bare tractors or loaders attached ?
Got a 2 car garage, so side by side swap or ,ugh, outside on gravel driveway...
If there's 2 tractors, do you have overhead beam and trolleys ?
I didn't even think of busted studs...yuck...or draining fluids....storing stuff, etc.
I KNOW I can split 2 D-14s and swap engines in under 8 hrs..BTDT. Yours are smaller so 'should' be easier to do.....
And of course how many times will you answer the 'smart phone' during the process ? 100 or NEVER ??
Big deals for me is the 2nd( good) engine on a crate or still in another tractor ?
Are they bare tractors or loaders attached ?
Got a 2 car garage, so side by side swap or ,ugh, outside on gravel driveway...
If there's 2 tractors, do you have overhead beam and trolleys ?
I didn't even think of busted studs...yuck...or draining fluids....storing stuff, etc.
I KNOW I can split 2 D-14s and swap engines in under 8 hrs..BTDT. Yours are smaller so 'should' be easier to do.....
And of course how many times will you answer the 'smart phone' during the process ? 100 or NEVER ??
Well I guess I could have been more specific but I asked a general question and all I wanted was a general answer if I wanted it down to the minute I would have called the dealer and found out what the shop manual said
There is in fact a flat rate for it.
-however-
the flat rate is only for warranty purposes, and that is the only time it's really ever used.
So, the question is, how do they come up with the "flat rate"?
They (manufacturer) takes a brand new machine, clean, and with the tools already accounted for and ready to be used (usually out and on the bench already) does whatever job it is that they're "flat rating" 3 times. Then they'll average those. Anyone who's done any work knows that if you do a job once, it's gonna take longer than if you do it consecutively two more times.
So let's say an engine R&R is 5.6 hours (and that's probably close). Then cleaning time. They don't pay for cleaning. Figure an hour, maybe more or maybe less. Loader? It has to come off, subframe and all. They don't figure that in the flat rate book either, it's in a different book, and you add that to it. Belly mower? That also comes out, again like the loader, in a different book. Add that to the engine R&R. backhoe? Remove hoe, remove subframes. Also added to the original engine R&R labor time.
THAT is why the flat rate times are inconclusive.
I've done them (personally), 99% of the time belly deck and front end loader. 11-14 hours is average including several cleanings as everything is disassembled.
-however-
the flat rate is only for warranty purposes, and that is the only time it's really ever used.
So, the question is, how do they come up with the "flat rate"?
They (manufacturer) takes a brand new machine, clean, and with the tools already accounted for and ready to be used (usually out and on the bench already) does whatever job it is that they're "flat rating" 3 times. Then they'll average those. Anyone who's done any work knows that if you do a job once, it's gonna take longer than if you do it consecutively two more times.
So let's say an engine R&R is 5.6 hours (and that's probably close). Then cleaning time. They don't pay for cleaning. Figure an hour, maybe more or maybe less. Loader? It has to come off, subframe and all. They don't figure that in the flat rate book either, it's in a different book, and you add that to it. Belly mower? That also comes out, again like the loader, in a different book. Add that to the engine R&R. backhoe? Remove hoe, remove subframes. Also added to the original engine R&R labor time.
THAT is why the flat rate times are inconclusive.
I've done them (personally), 99% of the time belly deck and front end loader. 11-14 hours is average including several cleanings as everything is disassembled.
I’ve worked as a technician (in my much-younger days) on the flat rate schedules and I ALWAYS beat the book and made money on it. Here’s why:
Removing/Reinstalling an FEL is ONE OPERATION that is charged on the final invoice.
R&R the MM is also charged.
The actual engine-swap operation is flat-rated to include all sorts of procedures that an experienced man knows not to do.
When I worked as a Toyota Tech, I was paid 4.5 hours to change a head gasket the factory had under-torqued. The flat-rate included draining fluids, removing intake and exhaust manifolds completely from the vehicle, pulling valve and rocker assys, pulling the head, cleaning the surfaces, then reassembling all that again.
I could do this job in 45 minutes by opening the radiator-drain into a bucket, and only loosening the manifold studs and sticking a long pry-bar between it and engine to keep them seperated, then leaving the intake/induction system attached to the head as well as the entire valve/rocker assemblies and lifting the head out of the compartment (the antifreeze had drained by that time below the head-level so no fluid is lost.) Scraping the old gskt, installing the new, laying the head back in position, torquing it, bolting the valve assy’s back in situ and adjusting them (I knew to have No 2 cyl at TDC on that engine which has ALL valves closed so no need to rotate each cyl to adjust valves.). Pouring the bucket of antifreeze back into the radiator and bolting the exhaust manifold back onto it’s studs, and it was ready to start.
I would do 4 or 5 a day and make two days pay. Got me all the way thru pilot training and college.
In my experience, I could beat the flat rate manual on all jobs except rear differential gear-set changes (because of an extensive process involving dial indicator/torque-meter bearing pre-load tedium-tasks unique to their early cars.)
True, flat rate manuals could not be beat on old dirty equipment tho’, but it’s a good starting point for guestimates, IMO.
Removing/Reinstalling an FEL is ONE OPERATION that is charged on the final invoice.
R&R the MM is also charged.
The actual engine-swap operation is flat-rated to include all sorts of procedures that an experienced man knows not to do.
When I worked as a Toyota Tech, I was paid 4.5 hours to change a head gasket the factory had under-torqued. The flat-rate included draining fluids, removing intake and exhaust manifolds completely from the vehicle, pulling valve and rocker assys, pulling the head, cleaning the surfaces, then reassembling all that again.
I could do this job in 45 minutes by opening the radiator-drain into a bucket, and only loosening the manifold studs and sticking a long pry-bar between it and engine to keep them seperated, then leaving the intake/induction system attached to the head as well as the entire valve/rocker assemblies and lifting the head out of the compartment (the antifreeze had drained by that time below the head-level so no fluid is lost.) Scraping the old gskt, installing the new, laying the head back in position, torquing it, bolting the valve assy’s back in situ and adjusting them (I knew to have No 2 cyl at TDC on that engine which has ALL valves closed so no need to rotate each cyl to adjust valves.). Pouring the bucket of antifreeze back into the radiator and bolting the exhaust manifold back onto it’s studs, and it was ready to start.
I would do 4 or 5 a day and make two days pay. Got me all the way thru pilot training and college.
In my experience, I could beat the flat rate manual on all jobs except rear differential gear-set changes (because of an extensive process involving dial indicator/torque-meter bearing pre-load tedium-tasks unique to their early cars.)
True, flat rate manuals could not be beat on old dirty equipment tho’, but it’s a good starting point for guestimates, IMO.