SURVEY: Chattering 3 Point (going up)

[ShaunRH]

Yeah, I know the Magnuson/Moss act, but remember, they have an army of lawyers that can fight you for just a few dollars, you don't. What's cheaper, the lawyer or using their fluids?

I'm not saying any of you are wrong, I'm just looking at it from a pretty common point of view.

My personal viewpoint is how the heck would they know you aren't using their fluid to begin with? LOL!

 

[Backfire1]

Any updates it has been over a week. Just curious as to the outcome or resolution to your problem.

 

[Bulldog]

As far as the 3x life question, yes just change the filters and top it off. I have about 1100 hrs on the trans fluid in my L3000 and it still looks like light honey just like when it went in the tractor. My M9000 has around 700 hrs on the T fluid and it's still so clear it's hard to check the oil level on the dipstick. Since it takes 30 gallons to change my tractors I buy my oil in drums and the price per gallon goes down a little more.

Again, just my opinion but I think about 99% of the people who bad mouth synthetic lubricants have never even tried them. Or you get I have a friend who knows this guy who did this...ect... Myself, I grew up using standard oil and Amsoil was by far not the first synthetic I tried. When I was introduced to Amsoil I was a very satisfied Mobil 1 user. I didn't just close my eyes and jump either. I had worked hard for my stuff and changing to a oil I had never heard of didn't reach very high on my list of things to do. My friend told me that if it messed my truck up he would pay for it out of his pocket to have it fixed. I started out in the engine of my F150 and after seeing improvements in mpg I started trying it in other applications. If I could see an advantage I switched. 20 years later everything but my leaky Bobcat has Amsoil from end to end.

"So whom do I believe?"

I don't expect you to believe me. Yes, I'm being 100% truthful (to my knowledge) about everything Amsoil has done for me. I want you to see it for yourself and be amazed just like I was. Start small, Amsoil 2 stroke even makes a chainsaw run better.
Yeah, they all claim to be superior but remember all the other synthetic oils are chasing Amsoil. They were the first to produce a Synthetic oil for civilian markets and did it in 1972. Mobil 1 makes a big deal about having a 15K oil change. Amsoil started out with their oil rated for 25K. As far as engine oil goes my life is easy. Don't worry about the miles or hrs, just simply change oil once per year and forget it till next year. All I can say is try it for yourself. If it works as good for you as it does for me you'll be thrilled.

 

[ShaunRH]

I am not against synthetics at all. My Dakota has had Mobile 1 in it since 5K miles and now with 160K miles on it, and having had the intake valley off on it, it's clean in there. I've got no complaints.

However, that's motor oil. We're talking tractors with large gears, lots of bearing surfaces and prone to putting lots and lots of little metal bits in the oil.

So, if yours is still clear and looking good, I might jump at that. Engine oils always go black due to carbon so I can never tell what their micro particle levels are by looking at it. Sounds like yours is good.

Now I have an L3200DT so I don't have to worry about an HST or anything being affected, it probably won't give a darn. However if I could get similar performance out of $40 a 5 gallon bucket of Universal Tractor Fluid, then the Amsoil isn't saving me much money in the short term but perhaps in the long term...

All of these things are considerations you have to weigh. I appreciate your testimony on it but I also know that most Amsoil converts have a near religious faith in the product but I have yet to see the non-Amsoil studies back that up. So you see the dilemma.

You have convinced me that if I'm going to go expensive I might as well go synthetic though.

 

[D2Cat]

If you have questions about any oil your using, send a sample to Blackstone and get an analysis. Yes, it will cost you. Then you will know when to change without a guess, and what is wearing in your engine.

 

[Bulldog]

ShaunRH, I don't know if you did a 50 hr service on your tractor or not but from the 3 new tractors I bought that is the one that's really loaded with metal. My 2nd service the oil was clean as new but just for piece of mind I went on and dropped it out and replaced with new.

Other than a few basic changes I guess your 3200 is just a new version of my 3000. Same basic size and hp anyway. If yours does like mine you will feel the difference with Amsoil. It will steer better, run cooler and operate smoother than ever. You just have to feel the difference for yourself to really understand.

If you have any other questions or if I can help in any way send me a PM.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Backfire:

Working like it is supposed to work. Valve assembly replacement seemed to have done the trick. I can adjust my box scraper up by 1/2" or less consistently. Before, it jerked up about 2" at a time.

Synthetics:

I remember when Mobil 1 came out and they guaranteed you could drive 18,000 mi on a change. Only problem, the additive package in the oil went bye-bye after 3000mi. Huge engine wear. Huge lawsuits. No more guarantees.

Engine oil and hydraulic fluid are very similar but combustive contaminants are way different that wear particulates in hydraulic fluid. The nasty soot and grime that leaks by piston rings is hell on bearings and oil journals. An engine run on mineral oil and changed regularly will outlast a motor run on synthetic over longer intervals.

BMW is sticking to their oil computers that measure length between start-ups and time driven. They are saying up to 11,000 mi on the first oil change! Dis homey don't play dat. My oil gets changed every five.

As for hydraulics, I plan to run the published intervals with a little insurance offered by the extra lubricity of synthetic molecules. With my 3-pt tear-down, I scored a new set of filters on the hydraulics! Whoo-hoo! (The guy wrote the engine time and date on the filters for me.)

Remember Slick 50? Slick Advertising!

 

[kubby 2013]

Typical dealer answer "first time we have ever heard of it".

 

[BigBassBrent]

After reading this thread I tested the 3pt last night on my 2015 L3301. If I move the lever extremely slow (fractions of an inch), it will bounce, not 2", but it certainly isn't smooth as butter.

 

[Burt]

Backfire:

Working like it is supposed to work. Valve assembly replacement seemed to have done the trick. I can adjust my box scraper up by 1/2" or less consistently. Before, it jerked up about 2" at a time.

Synthetics:

I remember when Mobil 1 came out and they guaranteed you could drive 18,000 mi on a change. Only problem, the additive package in the oil went bye-bye after 3000mi. Huge engine wear. Huge lawsuits. No more guarantees.

Engine oil and hydraulic fluid are very similar but combustive contaminants are way different that wear particulates in hydraulic fluid. The nasty soot and grime that leaks by piston rings is hell on bearings and oil journals. An engine run on mineral oil and changed regularly will outlast a motor run on synthetic over longer intervals.

BMW is sticking to their oil computers that measure length between start-ups and time driven. They are saying up to 11,000 mi on the first oil change! Dis homey don't play dat. My oil gets changed every five.

As for hydraulics, I plan to run the published intervals with a little insurance offered by the extra lubricity of synthetic molecules. With my 3-pt tear-down, I scored a new set of filters on the hydraulics! Whoo-hoo! (The guy wrote the engine time and date on the filters for me.)

Remember Slick 50? Slick Advertising!

CCR,

I thought you had this all solved. Does your new post indicate that there is still an issue? Have you adjusted the control knob under your seat at all?

With a new valve, yours should work smoothly. Read back on my posts that solved this for me. Factory rep is the ticket to success. Just don't give up!

Burt

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Burt,
Nope!
Working like it is supposed to work. Valve assembly replacement seemed to have done the trick. I can adjust my box scraper up by 1/2" or less consistently. Before, it jerked up about 2" at a time. Smooth as can be now.

 

[Burt]

Burt,
Nope!
Working like it is supposed to work. Valve assembly replacement seemed to have done the trick. I can adjust my box scraper up by 1/2" or less consistently. Before, it jerked up about 2" at a time. Smooth as can be now.

CCR,

Great! Good on ya! The valve is the trick! Some folks just put up with it and then just go along with a dealer's comment. The answer is the stick to it and factory rep contact.

Congrats,

Burt

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Needless to say, Kubota didn't get good scores on my Owner Survey today. Having my machine out of hand for three and a half weeks is unacceptable.

And that is the nice word for it!

AND, I mentioned I shared the whole process with the Orange Forum, including pictures!

 

[kgw51gmc]

my summer of 2013 purchase (L3800, 4x4, gear) has the jerky three point hitch. I told Dave in Columbus Ohio (the guy who works for Kubota's customer hub there) that I would sue Kubota if they didn't rectify the problem. He said flat out that it was normal and would never hurt anything. And he said, "It's an economy tractor, so you get an economy valve."
I told him, "I have a go#DA*) 60 year old ford tractor that lifts nice 'n' smooth, why can't my $17K Kubota do it?"
Kubota was unwilling to deal with it, give advice on it, anything. My dealer was worthless in the problem too, most likely because he couldn't get paid for warranty work as Kubota won't even admit there is a problem. Meanwhile, anyone who wants to use a 3 point lift pole to put a 350 chevy motor into the back of a tiny Toyota Tacoma under the camper top will end up breaking the window in the top and then denting the roof..........

 

[CaveCreekRay]

This is EXACTLY what will kill Kubota's reputation.

When a dealer tells you, "You bought an entry level tractor so its function should be considered to be substandard," that is double speak for,

"This is a substandard design and we won't stand behind it because we consider the jerky operation normal."

What does that say about their design and engineering?

What does that say about the company?

I'd get a hold of the regional Kubota Rep and have a chat with him. Try calling the Kubota Customer Care Line (in this thread). You can get your regional guys contact info through Kubota if you are persistent. Keep us tuned. It is still under warranty.

 

[Burt]

This is EXACTLY what will kill Kubota's reputation.

When a dealer tells you, "You bought an entry level tractor so its function should be considered to be substandard," that is double speak for,

"This is a substandard design and we won't stand behind it because we consider the jerky operation normal."

What does that say about their design and engineering?

What does that say about the company?

I'd get a hold of the regional Kubota Rep and have a chat with him. Try calling the Kubota Customer Care Line (in this thread). You can get your regional guys contact info through Kubota if you are persistent. Keep us tuned. It is still under warranty.

CCR and KGW,

Triple agree with sticking to the get the factory rep involved. They know about these sub par valves. Document all you can including a video. Then, if you need to, contact the attorney general in your state. The term you are looking to use in your contacts with Kubota is "Fitness for purpose" and also "unsafe." If you are bouncing a few inches with an implement, it is not safe. However, if it is just noisy and slightly jerks when starting up, forget it.

I was also told how normal and expected it is to have a 3 point jerk like that. However, after many requests within the dealer, I was told that I was not allowed to talk with the factory rep. They would not give me his phone number nor e-mail.

So, I asked them to contact the rep, ask him to stop by and take a look at the tractor and then make a decision. Bottom line, I got a new valve under warranty.

I felt like I needed to take a bath afterwards but the new valve made a world of difference. You just need to stay with it. Check my earlier posts about this.

Don't forget to document everything...phone conversations, any notes or letters, stay with it.

Burt

 

[Bluegill]

The fact that the majority of the basic L tractors do not have the jerky 3 pt does not fit the story here. But it is a problem with some rigs though. If mine was that bad and still under warranty I'd raise holy hell until it was fixed!

 

[Bulldog]

I bet the valves are made in several locations. That said, I bet all the trouble making valves come from one location and the others are fine. We ran into a problem like this several years ago with Cat equipment. It was with electronics from France. If the machine had them in it you were in for a long ride. If it had electronics from anywhere else it was fine.

 

[ShaunBlake]

The fact that the majority of the basic L tractors do not have the jerky 3 pt does not fit the story here. But it is a problem with some rigs though. If mine was that bad and still under warranty I'd raise holy hell until it was fixed!

Bluegill, if yours was that bad and out of warranty, you might take the same course. I know that many here would, particularly if they understood that just because a warranty has expired does not necessarily mean that the problem won't be fixed -- particularly under U.S. consumer protection laws.

What Burt and CaveCreekRay are saying is go to the wall, starting with the dealer, then Kubota's Rep, then Kubota's Customer Care, then your state attorney general

Certainly CCR's valve was addressed under warranty. However, note that it was at the bitter end of the warranty, and some of the parts had no measurable or even discernible wear.

From this, a reasonable person, on examining a valve that exhibits such problems and seeing that it isn't worn, could see that the cause of the problem must be either a manufacturing defect or perhaps a design flaw.

Perhaps, as I suspect from reading this thread, many L38xx and L32xx owners haven't lifted 200# or greater loads with minute adjustments that CCR was making. If I had an L3xxx, I think I'd rush out and test mine. (Sadly,) I only have a B6100, and its 3PH problems are different.

 

[BadDog]

It may be different source locations, but it could just as easily be lack of QA. If a critical tolerance is met on 99% of the valves, and they do not properly QA that the tolerance is met (often save cost by spot checking one in a shipment, getting a good one and missing the 15 out of 3000 that are out of spec), then you get the same behavior. And that tolerance being out of spec by maybe 0.0001 (or maybe less) to produce the problem won't be visible to anyone just having a look.

And I'll further wager that Kubota knows exactly what the problem is and expected it all along. MBAs for the last several decades are taught to apply a model which maps customer satisfaction/complaints to profits. It is very well established that if you have outstanding customer service with very low customer complaints and resulting strong brand loyalty, you are literally leaving money on the table (at least with their short term myopic view that extends only to the next quarters balance sheets). So the sweet spot is that you cut corners in all areas, including QA, until customer complaints begin to rise up to but not exceeding the point where the 2 curves cross and going further would result in less sort term profit margins. They can push that drop in quality even further if they buy an established brand name with good customer recognition and loyalty. The "inertia" then lets them cut even further for longer before the 2 graphs cross. Eventually the intersection drifts too far against them and they sell of the remains. Danaher Group is a master of this process.