CaveCreekRay
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L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
SURVEY: Chattering 3 Point (going up)
- Thread starter CaveCreekRay
- Start date
This would make sense, if it was a widespread problem like some believe.
But it really doesn't effect that many tractors. I'd buy another L before I
bought a green one!
CaveCreekRay
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L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
Bluegill,
Thanks. That is one heck of a hard device to explain. I hope the pics and vid help people. By the way, here is a short and choppy video I shot showing how the Position Arm adjusts the valve control rod... For some reason it took forever to upload yesterday.
http://vid307.photobucket.com/albums/nn297/CaptStark/Kubota%203-pt%20vid-2.mp4
Hope that helps.
I hope you are correct and this is a very uncommon problem in the L Series equipment. The thing that makes me think it is more common that you think is that it is a popular and recurring topic on tractor forums. Also, the only other guy I know, the guy who pointed me at the L3800, has the same problem with his out-of-warranty L3800DT. And he has less time than I do on his tractor. His is not as bad as mine was but it is still very hard to control precisely in the bottom half of the 3-pt arm travel.
The thing that compels me more than any other single thing is the way the manufacturer makes consumers jump through hoops to get the issue resolved. That they have owned up to the issue and replaced scores of valves of the L Series tells me there is a manufacturing issue with these valve assemblies and Kubota recognizes it. The Grand series never sees this problem. How could that be?
The Grand valve is clearly different. How can a $900 valve be so bad, quality control-wise, and the Grand valve is rarely a problem? Does it cost twice as much? I doubt it very much.
Kubota builds a good product. But, among the most common pieces of advice I have ever read regarding which make of tractor to buy, the best and most frequent answer is: Buy the one with the best dealer support near you. They are all good machines. Some have better features than others. But, dealer support is critical no matter which brand you buy, whether it is a car or a tractor. And half of dealer support is the support of the dealer and ultimately the customer, by the manufacturer. That is where Kubota nearly lost a customer. And Burt sounds like he went through hell to get his resolved. That shouldn't be the case.
A tractor is a machine that pulls implements through a hitch assembly. That hitch is as critical as the motor for getting work done.
Merry Christmas Gang.
Thanks. That is one heck of a hard device to explain. I hope the pics and vid help people. By the way, here is a short and choppy video I shot showing how the Position Arm adjusts the valve control rod... For some reason it took forever to upload yesterday.
http://vid307.photobucket.com/albums/nn297/CaptStark/Kubota%203-pt%20vid-2.mp4
Hope that helps.
I hope you are correct and this is a very uncommon problem in the L Series equipment. The thing that makes me think it is more common that you think is that it is a popular and recurring topic on tractor forums. Also, the only other guy I know, the guy who pointed me at the L3800, has the same problem with his out-of-warranty L3800DT. And he has less time than I do on his tractor. His is not as bad as mine was but it is still very hard to control precisely in the bottom half of the 3-pt arm travel.
The thing that compels me more than any other single thing is the way the manufacturer makes consumers jump through hoops to get the issue resolved. That they have owned up to the issue and replaced scores of valves of the L Series tells me there is a manufacturing issue with these valve assemblies and Kubota recognizes it. The Grand series never sees this problem. How could that be?
The Grand valve is clearly different. How can a $900 valve be so bad, quality control-wise, and the Grand valve is rarely a problem? Does it cost twice as much? I doubt it very much.
Kubota builds a good product. But, among the most common pieces of advice I have ever read regarding which make of tractor to buy, the best and most frequent answer is: Buy the one with the best dealer support near you. They are all good machines. Some have better features than others. But, dealer support is critical no matter which brand you buy, whether it is a car or a tractor. And half of dealer support is the support of the dealer and ultimately the customer, by the manufacturer. That is where Kubota nearly lost a customer. And Burt sounds like he went through hell to get his resolved. That shouldn't be the case.
A tractor is a machine that pulls implements through a hitch assembly. That hitch is as critical as the motor for getting work done.
Merry Christmas Gang.
Excellent.
Its great the dealer had a knowledgeable technician to solve the problem. And good on that tech to share some of his knowledge.
Great you could pass it on to this forum where its like set in stone. It will benefit many.
Its great the dealer had a knowledgeable technician to solve the problem. And good on that tech to share some of his knowledge.
Great you could pass it on to this forum where its like set in stone. It will benefit many.
CaveCreekRay
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L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
Thanks TJ!
I hope it helps. I got a PM from a member and thought this reply might also be helpful so I dragged it out for anyone else who might have the issue and need to try a "home remedy" to resolve it...
The tech thought part of mine might be due to the fact that the "bar" that is between the Control Rod and the valves had loosened up. One of the lock nuts had backed off a tad. That meant the pressure relief valve was actuating at a different time than it should of. That might have led to the chatter. They were advised by Kubota not to mess with it because the main pressure control valve (in the center) was hanging up. They wanted the valve back for inspection.
My best bud has this problem with his L3800DT. One of these days he is going to pop the case lid off just to see if his is loose too. Pretty simple to do and as long as you mark all the positions of the linkage outside the tractor you have to disassemble, you should be fine to go in and peek. Just have cardboard ready to cover the case hole with. Poke a couple of case holes in the cardboard and thread a couple nuts through it and you'll keep stuff from falling in.
To test it you could stick the cover on with two bolts and reattach the position linkage just to cycle it and check for chatter. There is a specified distance the bar and rod should be from the valve body. You can read that on my thread in the pictures.
There is no gasket for the cover. Have RTV ready. Their technique was spread a nice thin layer on a clean case lip. Wait ten to fifteen minutes so its pretty set up. Then install the cover. Wipe off excess. Fewer leaks that way.
I hope it helps. I got a PM from a member and thought this reply might also be helpful so I dragged it out for anyone else who might have the issue and need to try a "home remedy" to resolve it...
The tech thought part of mine might be due to the fact that the "bar" that is between the Control Rod and the valves had loosened up. One of the lock nuts had backed off a tad. That meant the pressure relief valve was actuating at a different time than it should of. That might have led to the chatter. They were advised by Kubota not to mess with it because the main pressure control valve (in the center) was hanging up. They wanted the valve back for inspection.
My best bud has this problem with his L3800DT. One of these days he is going to pop the case lid off just to see if his is loose too. Pretty simple to do and as long as you mark all the positions of the linkage outside the tractor you have to disassemble, you should be fine to go in and peek. Just have cardboard ready to cover the case hole with. Poke a couple of case holes in the cardboard and thread a couple nuts through it and you'll keep stuff from falling in.
To test it you could stick the cover on with two bolts and reattach the position linkage just to cycle it and check for chatter. There is a specified distance the bar and rod should be from the valve body. You can read that on my thread in the pictures.
There is no gasket for the cover. Have RTV ready. Their technique was spread a nice thin layer on a clean case lip. Wait ten to fifteen minutes so its pretty set up. Then install the cover. Wipe off excess. Fewer leaks that way.
Last edited:
It may not be entirely true that the problem doesn't occur in the Grand L's . Maybe mine was just cold yesterday, but it did jerk going up. It sat for a while while I had lunch.
. Maybe mine was just cold yesterday, but it did jerk going up. It sat for a while while I had lunch.
CaveCreekRay
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L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
The valve sits right under your seat, inside the rear end. In cold weather, I cannot imagine the rear end getting very warm. I can't see the tranny (right in front of the rear end) getting too warm during operation. Unless the fluid warms up and gets pumped around warming the valve components up, I bet the 3-pt valve stays pretty close to the rear end temp.
North Idaho Wolfman
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On most units, a chattering or jumpy three point is a result of a dirty restricted fluid movement for a plugged filter or from the fluid just being cold.
It's very common for most hydraulic systems to be jittery in cold weather, this can also be amplified by too thick of fluid.
It's very common for most hydraulic systems to be jittery in cold weather, this can also be amplified by too thick of fluid.
I hope you are right about cold in this case. I would not like to think it was developing the problem of Ray's tractor. It was about 40F out (viewed as nice around here). I used it for about an hour and then went in the house for lunch, left it outside, came back out and wanted to pick the blade back up so I could turn it around.
Since then I looked in trusty owners manual and it says for temps above 14F to warm it up for 5 min at 50% of rated rpm before using hydraulics, 20 min for below 0. Not sure how that translates into real world terms. Half throttle? Even with doors open that is a fair amount of carbon monoxide if you shouldn't pick up the blade and FEL and at least move it outside.
Since then I looked in trusty owners manual and it says for temps above 14F to warm it up for 5 min at 50% of rated rpm before using hydraulics, 20 min for below 0. Not sure how that translates into real world terms. Half throttle? Even with doors open that is a fair amount of carbon monoxide if you shouldn't pick up the blade and FEL and at least move it outside.
North Idaho Wolfman
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Your not going to hurt anything by operating the 3 point or even the loader when it's cold, it will just run smoother when it's warmed up.
My 2013 l3800 does the same thing where ever able to get anything done about it.
Did ya read the thread? His dealer is fixing it under warranty.
If yours is real bad, I'd have your dealer check it out.
I wish one of the L3200 or L3800 owners would try Amsoil tractor / trans fluid and see if it helps or even stop the jerky 3pt problem. Not trying to start another oil war so please don't take it that way. I just know my L3000 is very smooth to operate and it doesn't make any difference how cold it gets. I would love to see one of the problem tractor owners try Amsoil and see if it helped in any way shape or form.
Bulldog, it's not the oil that's the issue, it's the warranty if you use AMSOIL. Putting anything other than Kubota UDT or SUDT in it will get a fight from them on so many issues, most folks just don't want to make the jump.
Personally, if the oil meets the specifications required, I don't have an issue with it. AMSOIL gets a lot of talking up by it's groupies but I'm not sure it is enough of a difference to warrant fighting the Manufacturer over every little warranty issue.
What's the price difference between the UDT/SUDT Amsoil equivalent and the Kubota brand?
Personally, if the oil meets the specifications required, I don't have an issue with it. AMSOIL gets a lot of talking up by it's groupies but I'm not sure it is enough of a difference to warrant fighting the Manufacturer over every little warranty issue.
What's the price difference between the UDT/SUDT Amsoil equivalent and the Kubota brand?
I'll guarrenty you that amsoil meets and exceeds the manufactures specifications. You can get a copy of the specifications from the Amsoil website.
ShaunRH, I hear what you're saying about the warranty issue and I'm not even going to start the MMO battle. But Amsoil exceeds Kubota requirements so there is no warranty issue. Like I said I'm not trying to start a oil war. I just thru that out about the oil because of the difference I see between my tractors and my mini x. My trackhoe has a few leaks here and there so I use cheap hyd fluid instead of Amsoil just due to the cost. More so when it's cold the mini x is so stiff feeling and sluggish but even at operating temps it still doesn't even come close to how smooth the tractors are. Cold, hot it doesn't make any difference. The equipment with Amsoil are always smooth and quiet. The difference I could feel in my tractors after changing them over is the reason I would like some feed back from a L series owner with the jerky 3pt issue. I've had a couple of people around here tell me it isn't the oil but they won't try it and prove it. Not that I'm trying to say Amsoil is a miracle in a bottle because it's not. But from my personal experience Amsoil is the best lubricant I've ever used.
I have never bought any UDT/SUDT so I don't know the price on the Kubota fluid.
My cost for 5 gal is around $140. I'm sure that's much higher than Kubota fluid but keep in mind the Amsoil is rated for 3x the service life.
I have never bought any UDT/SUDT so I don't know the price on the Kubota fluid.
My cost for 5 gal is around $140. I'm sure that's much higher than Kubota fluid but keep in mind the Amsoil is rated for 3x the service life.
Well, there's an issue with 3x the service life. While it's an entirely different argument, it is germane to the point about sythetics vs. whatever else, in this case, Kubota SUDT (we'll use that since it's the closest in cost to the AMSOIL). Now, according to synthetic service life logic, all I need to do is to keep changing filters and topping off on schedule, right? If that is indeed true, then AMSOIL is a bargain as 5 gals of SUDT on Messicks is $104. That's $140 to $312 comparison over 3 oil changes. So I get the logic.
However, I can't throw a rock without hitting an article, post, or gripe about synthetics not actually performing to their published lifespan, or still needing to be changed because the micro particle buildup that filters don't get actually start increasing wear on parts. I can't tell if that's all crap or if it's true. If true though, the service life is theoretical and the fluid still needs to be changed. Not such a bargain any more. If crap, then we are back to bargain.
So whom do I believe? I love synthetics, but I just don't see much difference in them. They all claim to be superior, I just don't put much stock in the longevity claims with the counter claims that the oil has to be changed regardless. I haven't seen an unbiased study ever done. Someone always seems to have their finger on the scale.
However, I can't throw a rock without hitting an article, post, or gripe about synthetics not actually performing to their published lifespan, or still needing to be changed because the micro particle buildup that filters don't get actually start increasing wear on parts. I can't tell if that's all crap or if it's true. If true though, the service life is theoretical and the fluid still needs to be changed. Not such a bargain any more. If crap, then we are back to bargain.
So whom do I believe? I love synthetics, but I just don't see much difference in them. They all claim to be superior, I just don't put much stock in the longevity claims with the counter claims that the oil has to be changed regardless. I haven't seen an unbiased study ever done. Someone always seems to have their finger on the scale.
Harley dealers try and pull that same thing all the time... well you did'nt use HD oil wax WTF ever so it voids your warranty,,, BS!!!!
Look here and read when the dealer gives you crap about not using their stuff and that it voids your warranty. As soon as most dealers understand you k now what your talking about, and will loose this in court if you choose to go so far,, They see things your way grumbling like a junk yard dawg the whole time!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Look here and read when the dealer gives you crap about not using their stuff and that it voids your warranty. As soon as most dealers understand you k now what your talking about, and will loose this in court if you choose to go so far,, They see things your way grumbling like a junk yard dawg the whole time!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act