Suggestions to warm the block during winter?

Diydave

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L2202 tractor, L185f tractor
Oct 31, 2013
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Gambrills, MD USA
The limitation for a lower radiator hose heater, is whether it will fit in the space of the lower hose, and if the hose is at a 10 to 15º angle, upward, toward the block. If you have the space, but the hose angles up toward the radiator, all you are gonna heat is the radiator...

You want to mount a LHH as close to the motor, as possible, and angling just slightly upward toward the motor. At least that's what the instructions on every one I've done said...:D:D
 

Hryser

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Jan 1, 2016
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Durango, Colorado, USA
Hello tractor friends
Many thanks for all your great inputs and suggestions. I believe that I will try to find an alternate method before I start using a torch, like coolant heater or better, a block (oil) heater.
Also, I do have electric outlets in the shed.

Barry and Dave: Many thanks for your kind suggestions. I definitely like Dave's point to apply the heater where the heat is needed most, the engine oil. Yet, Dave, you mention that you found out that my Kubota engine (D1105) may accept these screw-in type block heaters. I have technical description and graphics of my engine and noticed that it has a few "screw-plugs". However, I have no idea whwich plug would be the right one to use.

Would you be able to tell me if I would scan a couple of the engine graphics and post it on this thread?

I certainly wished Kubota would offer this information but I haven't been able find get a path to the organization for their input.

Again, I want to thank you all for all your effort in providing me your suggestions.

Have a great weekend,
Hansueli
 

coachgeo

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L225 w/woods Few Mowers & Back Blade, D722 in Motorcycle (Triumph Tiger), LMTV
Nov 16, 2012
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Southern OH
..... I believe that I will try to find an alternate method before I start using a torch, like coolant heater or better, a block (oil) heater.
Also, I do have electric outlets in the shed.

Barry and Dave: Many thanks for your kind suggestions. I definitely like Dave's point to apply the heater where the heat is needed most, the engine oil. Yet, Dave, you mention that you found out that my Kubota engine (D1105) may accept these screw-in type block heaters.....
Hansueli
Just an FYI: A Block Heater is NOT an oil heater. It is a coolant heater same as a hose heater is a coolant heater. Hose heater's electric heating element protrudes into a coolant hose while an electric block heater protrudes into a coolant jacket in the block. Coolant is best to heat cause it heats EVERYTHING from the head down to top edge of oil pan and some heat will radiate on down to the oil as well.

Go to Tractordata. com, go to kubota area and look thru the tractor models to find one with an D1105 engine. Use that model to search for a block heater. For example the Kubota B7610 tractor uses the D1105 engine and if Im correct uses the 70000-73274 block heater ( http://www.messicks.com/part/70000-73274/block-heater )

There is I believe only one port it will screw into.
 
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Dave_eng

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M7040, Nuffield 465
Oct 6, 2012
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Williamstown Ontario Canada
Dryser
I think your best bet is to go to the local Kubota dealer and ask their parts guy.
I think the closest to you is:
Century Equipment Company in Durango
1097 Hwy 3
Durango, CO 81301
Phone: 970-247-0522

This web site is Kubota engine Corporation which supplies Kubota engines for all sorts of equipment other than say Kubota tractors.
http://www.kubotaengine.com/
This page from their site shows where to find the numbers on your specific model of engine which anyone will need to supply the correct block heater.
http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/engines/where-to-find-the-engine-serial-number


Alternatively many owners of Kubota speak highly of
http://www.messicks.com/vendor/kubota
A call to their parts people will be far more informative than I could ever be.

This is the installation instructions showing the location for the screw in block heaters for a number of engines including the 05 series
https://www.autocoolingsolutions.com/Installation_Instructions_for_Immersion_Screw_In_H.pdf

Others are correct in stating that the block heater warms the coolant which in turn warms the cylinders. I believe it is the sliding of the pistons on the cylinder walls that is the greatest friction for the starter to overcome in cold weather so getting the cylinder walls warm is very helpful as well as raising the air temp in the cylinders to make lighting off the diesel fuel easier.
Dave M7040
 
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JeffL

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B7200E, B4200DT
Jan 8, 2016
344
6
18
North Central Ar.
A simple method that works very good on the thermo-syphon cooling systems is a small electric space heater in front of the radiator. The coolant warms and circulates. Works quicker and warmer than a 400W block heater.
Probably will not work as well with a thermostat in place.
I still prefer a block heater, sometimes you just use what you have!
 

Tooljunkie

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L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
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Heating oil or coolant is like splitting hairs,both are effective. Mentioned above, pistons dragging on cylinder walls -aluminum shrinks way more than cast iron or steel. Compression goes down in the cold. Add fuel and it really drops. Warm cylinder walls improves compression. Warm oil increases cranking speed.

Heating both really increases ease of starting. Warm battery is a huge help too.

Block heater 350 to 1500 watts
Oil pan heater 450 watts
Battery blanket or charger 100 plus watts
A small insulated garage with a 1500 watt heater-priceless
Warm seat is a bonus.
 

Hryser

New member
Jan 1, 2016
4
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0
Durango, Colorado, USA
Hello Tractor-Friends
Many thanks again for all your input. I sure learned something again. That the block heater is not heating the oil but the coolant fluid. Thanks.

Dave:
Agin thanks for your elaborate response and the web-references, including the contact info on our local Kubota dealership. I will certainly stop there to get the detailed information about the correct block heater and the location of the plug on the engine where I will insert the heater.

Again, thank you kindly for all your help and support.
Hansueli
 

Stubbyie

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Jul 1, 2010
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Midcontinent
We run aftermarket lower radiator hose heaters in all our rolling stock---tractors, trucks, gen sets, welders, big mowers.

There have been times when we had to start a welder in dead winter to jump-start a mower to jump-start a smaller tractor to start a bigger tractor to unstick a stuck truck. Life is interesting that-a-way.

As another poster here points out, the lower radiator hose heater heats the 'coolant' antifreeze mix which transfers heat to the engine block which also tends to radiate heat to the fuel tank and although the oil pan itself doesn't pick up much heat (I've measured oil temp during block heating) the warmer block itself promotes easier oil flow during cranking.

For one of our machines I looked up the weight of the engine block, assumed heat transfer parameters based on cast iron, guessed at some efficiencies of the block heater-to-water-to-cast iron heat transfer, guessed further at some losses due to radiation in a zero wind setting and came up with slightly more than 2-hours as a requirement to heat prior to attempting a start. This works for us for a 35-hp 3-cyl diesel Kubota. At 0-F I can turn the key, the glow plugs cycle in less time that it takes to write this, and she starts every time.

Five Star Manufacturing out of Tennessee markets the Kats line of lower radiator hose heaters. Assuming there is room to install, it's the easiest way to go. Another poster in this thread describes the install process---it's relatively simple.

Kats is the red-color "T" shape heater; avoid the silver-aluminum color baseball-shape that some parts houses have as a cross-reference because these 'balls' take up more space in the engine compartment near the radiator and have a lower wattage (heat) output.

Plug the heater into a timer plugged into a 'non-GFCI' outlet and set the timer to come on about two to three hours before you expect to start the machine.

We've formed the habit of using the block heater on tractors anytime we expect to start with temps less then 40-F. This because sometimes the machines sit a week or more in winter and the oil drains down, creating a harder start. Not so much trucks that run every day.

Yes, our Kubotas (and others) will cold-start at 0-F but it's unneccessarily painful.

Also, consider installing along with the lower radiator hose (or other) block heater an onboard battery float charger or maintainer.

We use Schumacher battery maintainers on everything year-round. If it's not running, it's plugged in. Extends battery life, makes all starts easier, and in combination with some form of block heater makes cold weather starts fast and easy.

Just picked up a couple more maintainers at Tractor Supply on sale for $18 each. Last forever, too. Have had one go bad, called Schumacher direct, they sent a replacement within days. Avoid Harbor Freight float maintainers as have had repeat failures---quit altogether or boil battery dry.

Concerning the Kats lower radiator hose heater, do NOT plug it in (as in a test) unless immersed in water. It doesn't take much to ruin the element if energized in air.

If in an open shed or outdoors and using a lower radiator or other style block heater consider tossing a tarp over the machine or at least over the front end. This will keep the wind from sucking out the heat you're trying to put into the big metal chunk of engine block. This is especially true if the radiator happens to point into the wind.

I'd be concerned about using propane through the air intake to get a start. We know Kubotas don't like ether starting fluid and the use of propane in this manner sounds too similar.

Years ago I pulled an oilpan off an old Chevy truck where a stick-on magnetic oil pan heater had been used. Found a burned ring of burnt oil inside the pan. So I quit that. Same with the dipstick heaters. I'd now be reluctant to use either on anything.

I've been places where we had to build a fire under an engine to heat the oil to get it going. And where we drained the oil overnight, heated it in the morning (ah the smell of bacon, biscuits, and hot engine oil) before pouring it back into the engine. Electric lower radiator hose heaters make life a bit much easier.

Please post back with your decisions and continuing experiences so we may all learn.
 

D2Cat

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Mar 27, 2014
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Stubbyie, I have a 730 Case I use to feed hay with. I do just as you mentioned.

I have a 1500W heater that sets down by my left foot on the loader frame and has a hose going to the side of the block. The hose is about 15" long. I have a maintainer for the battery. The heater and the maintainer are connected to a timer (like for a hot water heater) wired directly to the breaker panel and has a receptacle coming out. I set the timer for about a 2 1/2 hour range (when I usually get around to feeding).

Battery is charged, engine is warm, and if my hands get cold while getting twine of a bale I can grab that hose for a few seconds and have a hand warmer!
 

Tooljunkie

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L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
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Many moons ago,i went for a round with my buddy hauling pulpwood. Rolled into logging camp and there was a blue haze in the air at the landing. They were trying to start the slasher. Every machine parked close and as many sets of booster cables they could muster. All the boss had to say was "nothin like the smell of ether in the morning!"

All i use ether for is setting tire beads.
 

SDMauler

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Equipment
2009 BX2360TV60, RCK60B-23BX
Aug 8, 2014
82
0
0
Parker, SD
Now that I have a tarp shed, I use a propane Nipco type forced air heater to warm the whole tractor. Even if you have to leave it outside, throw an old blanket or bedspread over the hood, point the heater under the tractor on low, have a up of coffee, and start it up.

In a pinch, you can do the same thing with an electric milk house type heater, but it would take longer.
 

Tooljunkie

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L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
4,150
33
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Lac Du Bonnet, Manitoba,Canada
This is a lot on the crazy side.
80,000 btu propane Tiger torch and a stove pipe.
I fire it up to warm up my small garage, but only run it for a few minutes.
Big fire and a loud roar. Makes heat.
A couple lengths of 8" pipe with an elbow and under engine it goes.
Have to watch, it will melt plasic parts under the hood.
http://youtu.be/lAMMKR_xK2M
That a small torch. Maybe 40,000
 
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L3010HST

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L3010HST w/LA481 loader; Land Pride RB2672 Blade and RF2060 Rotary
Apr 29, 2013
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PNW
@Hryser: You may want to consider a battery blanket warmer too. Even with a battery tender, fully charged battery, block heater, a battery warmer sure allows all those cold cranking amps to be available on those extreme frigid cold days. I use one when it's 30F and below and have faster cranking speed on fire up. Helps get all those amps needed to glow those plugs nice and toasty too.