Steering cylinder

[GeoHorn]

Thanks Dusty, that’s the current plan…. I”m just suspicious of the motives of the dealer because when I first called to schedule the repair…their immediate suggestion was to simply install a new cylinder.

When I said I’d rather reseal the existing cylinder for one-third the cost…they scheduled me in….then after dropping it off….they have stated the existing cylinder was previously repaired by modifying it to New-Style on the end leaking.

What I’m currently thinking is…. perhaps a previous repair used new-style seals,….on an old-style cylinder…. and that has not worked. Doh. Now they want me to needlessly buy that entire cylinder as they first proposed.

 

[GeoHorn]

Soo… I called the svc mgr at Messicks and described the local K-dealers’ explanation …. and it makes no sense to him. He’s never heard of substituting new-style parts to modify an old-style cylinder.

I thanked him, and called the local svc mgr and asked: Is it possible that someone simply tried to repair an oldstyle with new style seals..?? …which certainly might not be expected to remain leak-free…??
Local svc mgr says, “No…that’s not what has occured. We took it apart and found a NS end-cap has been installed on an OS cylinder…but the rest of the cylinder still has OS seals. In order to completely re-seal this cylinder would require us to order both NS and OS seal-kits.…. OR… replace the cylinder with a new one.”

I responded that “I understand…(and added that requiring two complete kits is not correct, however, as individual seals are available)…. that perhaps it’ll make more sense to me when I see the old cylinder. Meanwhile, Thanks for taking care of me… Let me know when it’s ready to be picked up.”

He said the parts will be on the 1PM UPS truck and the tractor should be ready by close of business today or early tomorrow. I can’t wait to see the invoice. (guessing $1500 parts and $500 labor)

 

[emac]

Just finished rebuilding my L3600 steering cylinder. I was a bit confused at first as to what your problem was, until I looked at the schematic for your tractor. Someone must have ordered the wrong parts and tried to make them fit. Based on what I could see from the schematic, I think you made the right call.

I think the parts for my rebuild were about $270. Of course there was a good bit of project creep, like tie rod ends, hoses, belt, radiator (battery broke loose and mated with the rad a while back) and other little things ended up over 1k in parts. Should be good for a while. Except, while I had it in my shop, I noticed the rear axle case is leaking. My tractor has had a tough life, but is still super strong.

 

[Vigo]

I think what people were trying to tel you in so many words, is that the dealership will claim to be able to do something, get you on the hook, find out their guys suck in whatever way (parts guy misquoted, tech can’t get it apart, whatever) and then make up bullshit that adds up to enough money to cover all the time they spend digging themselves out of their hole.

Its unfortunate but that’s reality often enough to make it a stereotype. A hydraulic shop is REALLY unlikely to give you a list of excuses as to why they cant do.. the only thing they do (fix hydraulics) and would probably just fix WHATEVER mishmash of weirdness you dropped off, and just say ‘thats a funny thingamabobber you got there’ when you picked it up, and that’s that.

But yeah, you would’ve had to deal with more of the process yourself.

 

[GeoHorn]

I think what people were trying to tel you in so many words, is that the dealership will claim to be able to do something, get you on the hook, find out their guys suck in whatever way (parts guy misquoted, tech can’t get it apart, whatever) and then make up bullshit that adds up to enough money to cover all the time they spend digging themselves out of their hole.

Its unfortunate but that’s reality often enough to make it a stereotype. A hydraulic shop is REALLY unlikely to give you a list of excuses as to why they cant do.. the only thing they do (fix hydraulics) and would probably just fix WHATEVER mishmash of weirdness you dropped off, and just say ‘thats a funny thingamabobber you got there’ when you picked it up, and that’s that.

But yeah, you would’ve had to deal with more of the process yourself.

I appreciate the viewpoint…but to be fair…. They rec’d the machine with the instructs to re-seal the OS-cylinder… spent valuable labor time disassembling it to find it’s not original….more valuable time figuring out what the deal is and the possible solutions…. had to stop their work to call the customer for the customers‘ input or approval…. while the machine takes up space in the bay that could be used for repair of someone else’s machine….. It costs them time and they ”may“ be subject to customers’ criticism for simply being unable to foretell the unknown situation brought to them.

I’m reserving judgement until I see the old cylinder…. and meanwhile, I should be enjoying a trouble-free NEW cylinder at the end of the day…albeit at more cost than I’d originally hoped.

As a young man,, 50 years ago, I worked on the dealers’ side of the equation in my early years and can see both sides of it.

Dealers are not all scheming crooks. Most dealers simply want to do a good job hoping the customer will return to make his next purchase….meanwhile they have to cover their svc dept costs and pay their workers.

 

[jyoutz]

I appreciate the viewpoint…but to be fair…. They rec’d the machine with the instructs to re-seal the OS-cylinder… spent valuable labor time disassembling it to find it’s not original….more valuable time figuring out what the deal is and the possible solutions…. had to stop their work to call the customer for the customers‘ input or approval…. while the machine takes up space in the bay that could be used for repair of someone else’s machine….. It costs them time and they ”may“ be subject to customers’ criticism for simply being unable to foretell the unknown situation brought to them.

I’m reserving judgement until I see the old cylinder…. and meanwhile, I should be enjoying a trouble-free NEW cylinder at the end of the day…albeit at more cost than I’d originally hoped.

As a young man,, 50 years ago, I worked on the dealers’ side of the equation in my early years and can see both sides I believe.

Dealers are not all scheming crooks. Most dealers simply want to do a good job hoping the customer will return to make his next purchase….meanwhile they have to cover their svc dept costs and pay their workers.

I agree with the previous poster. Just take your hydraulic cylinder to a hydraulic shop and they will fix it and probably for less than your dealer. They can source seals that work and will do it quickly. I took the loader cylinders from an old tractor I previously owned to a hydraulic shop and they were fixed in 3 days.

 

[GeoHorn]

I agree with the previous poster. Just take your hydraulic cylinder to a hydraulic shop and they will fix it and probably for less than your dealer. They can source seals that work and will do it quickly. I took the loader cylinders from an old tractor I previously owned to a hydraulic shop and they were fixed in 3 days.

In most cases (and especially with simple tasks such as ordinary loader cyls) i’d agree… however in this case it was more complicated …due to two different possible styles of cyls with expensive, specially-derived seals…not simple O-rings. I believe an ordinary hyd-shop would have taken a week or more to fix this because of the need to determine which special seals were needed and then they would find they had the wrong ones …and also have run into the mixed-mash of jury-rigged parts previously installed…adding even more time/delay/expense. This just turned out to be an unusual situation and I’ll have to bite-the-bullet on it.

At least now I know what i’ll have.

It was previously suggested that buying-used can be expensive …and that’s true when one runs into this sort of unknown…. but I’m still waay-ahead on this tractor…and don’t have to deal with the emissions-controls of new tractors.

 

[GeoHorn]

Dealer texted yesterday 5PM “It’s repaired and washed, ready for pick up around 9AM, after we test drive it again in the morning..” I’ll go get it this morning and post results.

 

[GeoHorn]

OK..picked it up and it’s repaired properly.

The original parts were returned to me and it was seen how someone had beaten the end-plug with a hammer in attempts to disassemble on a previous repair…and how the operating-rod had four different “pits’ of corrosion on it’s interior surface…they were deep enough to catch your finger-nail on them …the portion which resides in the interior of the cylinder…indicating a poor chroming-job during original mfr…..likely the original cause of leaks as the pits had rough edges that would wear-out any seal.

Soo… not because of any particular “smarts” on my part…but the decision to replace the cylinder completely turns out to be the best solution.

They also replaced the 4WD driveshaft-cover-tube at my request…as the original one had been worn-thru from friction with the driveshaft (apparently the previous owner had driven it over brush and crushed the tube against the shaft….and while doing that they replaced the coupler which had also been scraped and damaged.

The total bill came to $2200…. $560 was labor.

They’d complimentary greased the tractor and washed it. I’m happy it’s repaired well and that’s the bottom line. YMMV

 

[TheOldHokie]

OK..picked it up and it’s repaired properly.

The original parts were returned to me and it was seen how someone had beaten the end-plug with a hammer in attempts to disassemble on a previous repair…and how the operating-rod had four different “pits’ of corrosion on it’s interior surface…they were deep enough to catch your finger-nail on them …the portion which resides in the interior of the cylinder…indicating a poor chroming-job during original mfr…..likely the original cause of leaks as the pits had rough edges that would wear-out any seal.

Soo… not because of any particular “smarts” on my part…but the decision to replace the cylinder completely turns out to be the best solution.

They also replaced the 4WD driveshaft-cover-tube at my request…as the original one had been worn-thru from friction with the driveshaft (apparently the previous owner had driven it over brush and crushed the tube against the shaft….and while doing that they replaced the coupler which had also been scraped and damaged.

The total bill came to $2200…. $560 was labor.

They’d complimentary greased the tractor and washed it. I’m happy it’s repaired well and that’s the bottom line. YMMV

In this day and age $2200 for a dealer automotive repair is pretty routine.

Dan

 

[D2Cat]

Good to know you got it fixed and fixed correctly. Knowing what the damaged part looked like helps confirm your decision was correct. Cost seems reasonable for all they did.

 

[DustyRusty]

Did they use the correct grease in the correct fittings? You know, pins vs universal joints...

 

[Vigo]

I appreciate the viewpoint…but to be fair…. They rec’d the machine with the instructs to re-seal the OS-cylinder… spent valuable labor time disassembling it to find it’s not original….more valuable time figuring out what the deal is and the possible solutions…. had to stop their work to call the customer for the customers‘ input or approval…. while the machine takes up space in the bay that could be used for repair of someone else’s machine….. It costs them time and they ”may“ be subject to customers’ criticism for simply being unable to foretell the unknown situation brought to them.

So im not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying they can say anything they want and all that is is 'the story' until you find out what's true, if you even can. For example, they put the wrong guy on it and now it 'turns out' there's a bunch of damage from a hammer from a 'previous repair' where the previous repair was the guy who gets paid $17/hr they were trying to use so they could save a buck, and after he beat it half to death they brought in the guy who makes $37 to un-f%$# it and actually fix it, and now they paid BOTH of them and they're trying to make it back off of you. If you know enough you can parse truth from fiction but i agree the most with your line " I’m reserving judgement until I see the old cylinder…. ". The people that don't ask, or wouldn't know what they were looking at anyway, is what makes it too easy for dealers to just blame everything on 'the last guy that touched it' or make up stories to get themselves out of a jam.

But anyway, im glad it's fixed and you're happy with it!

 

[lugbolt]

something worth mentioning and I've never seen anyone talk about it

dealers are known for 'high prices' because when you go to a dealer to purchase, say, a 6204 ball bearing (Kubota 08101-06204?), it's cheap. At one time I was buying them at $7.70/ea and the local bearing supply house, their cheapest garbage was $12.07/ea. Nobody ever talks about that kind of thing; where you go into a dealer expecting to pay out the nose and come out with an unexpectedly LOWER cost.

BUT what people remember is how the cost of a small part might be $1000 when they think it outta be $100, or maybe they found the seemingly same part at another supplier for $100. Then they gripe about it online. But they don't ever talk about how the bearing (in this example) is cheaper than anywhere else.

And that's how dealers get a reputation for having expensive stuff.

Nevermind the fact that they are OEM parts and (example) Amazon's stuff is aftermarket copies of oem parts in a lot of cases. I buy a lot of OE stuff and sometimes on discount places like amazon, and it's close to the same price as the dealer; whereas the aftermarket is always less expensive and almost always lesser quality.

 

[DustyRusty]

I have seen parts sold on Amazon for a tenth of the OEM part and when it arrives, you realize that it has the same tooling marks as the defective OEM part. Just a different name on the box, but it comes out of the same mold in the same factory, it is just a different parts stream that it comes from. Not speaking specifically about Kubota, but I have seen this with both Mercedes and Toyota parts.

 

[TheOldHokie]

something worth mentioning and I've never seen anyone talk about it

dealers are known for 'high prices' because when you go to a dealer to purchase, say, a 6204 ball bearing (Kubota 08101-06204?), it's cheap. At one time I was buying them at $7.70/ea and the local bearing supply house, their cheapest garbage was $12.07/ea. Nobody ever talks about that kind of thing; where you go into a dealer expecting to pay out the nose and come out with an unexpectedly LOWER cost.

BUT what people remember is how the cost of a small part might be $1000 when they think it outta be $100, or maybe they found the seemingly same part at another supplier for $100. Then they gripe about it online. But they don't ever talk about how the bearing (in this example) is cheaper than anywhere else.

And that's how dealers get a reputation for having expensive stuff.

Nevermind the fact that they are OEM parts and (example) Amazon's stuff is aftermarket copies of oem parts in a lot of cases. I buy a lot of OE stuff and sometimes on discount places like amazon, and it's close to the same price as the dealer; whereas the aftermarket is always less expensive and almost always lesser quality.

Dealers are almost always more expensive.

Let's look at that 08101-06204 bearing example. Its a Koyo open ball bearing that currently lists for 9.62 at Messicks.

You can buy a cheap noname 6204 open bearing on eBay for $2.

Personally I buy lots of Koyo bearings. I get them from MRO Supply and they drop ship straight from Koyo NA in Memphis. The current price for a 6204 is 6.24. Thats retail single unit pricing, no tax, and no shipping. The exact same bearing and more than 30% less than the dealer.

Dan

 

[GeoHorn]

Did they use the correct grease in the correct fittings? You know, pins vs universal joints...

…Funny you should ask! (I did.)
They said they used Kubota grease…and as the invoice was being printed the svc mgr paged the tech who worked on it.. who came to the svc desk … the mgr asked him what grease he used and the tech (Dillon) turned around and grabbed two Kubota tubes off the display shelf…. one Polyurea Mulit-purpose lithium and one moly-lithium multi.
The 4WD—shifter certainly works smoother and has a more definite engagement of the detent when it goes into/out-of position.