steering cylinder won't stay put

[Tractor Gal]

My lovely tractor is a 2004 BX23D...has been doing great. This morning, however, the tractor wasn't steering correctly. When I looked, the problem is that the steering cylinder comes out of the steering cylinder guide. When I fix one side, the other side comes out. Obviously something is not adjusted correctly. I can't seem to get the tie rod out to begin to see what I could adjust. I have taken the bolts out of both sides of the cylinder guide , turned the steering wheel to get the cylinder back into the guides by turning the wheel, fastened them back up, but it pulls out again when I try to turn the wheel.

It seems that the cylinder itself would be held tight within the guides. The hydraulic steering moves the cylinder rods either right or left as the wheel is turned. Other than that, I'm clueless...but not in Seattle. Any help will save the day.

Tractor Gal

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The steering cylinder is held into place with 2 snap rings.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Those rings are inside of the cylinder guides and hold in the seals, etc., of the cylinder, are they not? And, they are in place. The whole thing cylinder comes out of the guides...depending on which way the wheel is turned...and both ends come out of the guides. It seems that the cylinder should be rigid within the guides. The rods, then, push the wheels in the direction of the turn. I don't know how to keep the cylinder in the guides...there are two bolts to hold each of the guides to the tractor.

TG

 

[Henro]

Those rings are inside of the cylinder guides. And, it appears they are in place. The whole thing comes out of the guides...depending on which way the wheel is turned...but they are both coming out.

TG

Looking at the parts diagram that the Wolfman posted what are the guides that you’re referring to the steering cylinders coming out of?

If it’s part numbers 110 and 120, could one of them be loose? Hard to imagine the cylinder would come out of them if they were properly secured.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The holders have been know to get bent out words and quit working properly.
I suggest taking the tie rods off the cylinders and flipping them over.

Or if you can't get the tie rods off easily, take off one holder, slide the cylinder to the inside and give the holder a smack with a hammer to bend them back into shape.
Then do the same for the other side.

 

[Henro]

The holders have been know to get bent out words and quit working properly.
I suggest taking the tie rods off the cylinders and flipping them over.

Or if you can't get the tie rods off easily, take off one holder, slide the cylinder to the inside and give the holder a smack with a hammer to bend them back into shape.
then do the same for the other side.

Ii’m not sure about tractorgal’s model, but I know on my son-in-law‘s BX23S, one of the brackets can’t be reversed because it wraps around the stub were a hydraulic fitting goes and it keeps cylinder from rotating under use.

The hammer adjustment might be the best since it could be applied to both sides…

 

[Tractor Gal]

Thank you, NIW and Henro. I did manage to get the cylinder loose from one side tie rod and the holder (guide) was bent slightly. I put the hammer to it on the anvil of the vise. Seemed to help some but the "stub" that Henro mentioned keeps me from doing much at that spot and it prevents switching sides with them. I'll work on the other side on Monday. It may be bent a little, too. Sadly, the little darling will need to sit out in the weather until
then. It's not used to that! Thanks again. I'll report back with outcome although it will take a while.

TG

 

[Henro]

Thank you, NIW and Henro. I did manage to get the cylinder loose from one side tie rod and the holder (guide) was bent slightly. I put the hammer to it on the anvil of the vise. Seemed to help some but the "stub" that Henro mentioned keeps me from doing much at that spot and it prevents switching sides with them. I'll work on the other side on Monday. It may be bent a little, too. Sadly, the little darling will need to sit out in the weather until
then. It's not used to that! Thanks again. I'll report back with outcome although it will take a while.

TG

Rather than trying to bend the mounting brackets back by using the vice anvil, you might be better off putting the bracket in the vice, with the jaws holding the section where the two bolts go through, and smacking it with the hammer that way, to bend it back where it belongs, with respect to the mounting surface.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Rather than trying to bend the mounting brackets back by using the vice anvil, you might be better off putting the bracket in the vice, with the jaws holding the section where the two bolts go through, and smacking it with the hammer that way, to bend it back where it belongs, with respect to the mounting surface.

Good thoughts, Henro and I did try that, too. I was a little concerned that I might break it, not knowing if it was cast iron or not. I'm good at breaking things! Keep the good thoughts coming. I need every one.

 

[fried1765]

Good thoughts, Henro and I did try that, too. I was a little concerned that I might break it, not knowing if it was cast iron or not. I'm good at breaking things! Keep the good thoughts coming. I need every one.

I seriously doubt that there actually are any "cast iron" parts on our Kubota tractors.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I seriously doubt that there actually are any "cast iron" parts on our Kubota tractors.

Good to know. ..and a relief. Perhaps you can sense that I have broken parts from things other than Kubota!

TG

 

[Henro]

I seriously doubt that there actually are any "cast iron" parts on our Kubota tractors.

Wheel weights?

I have two of those brackets and a good used steering cylinder that came off of my son-in-law’s BX23S. Brackets are definitely steel, probably cold rolled, and not cast.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Good thoughts, Henro and I did try that, too. I was a little concerned that I might break it, not knowing if it was cast iron or not. I'm good at breaking things! Keep the good thoughts coming. I need every one.

Engine block and head cast iron, other parts are cast steel and cast aluminum.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I seriously doubt that there actually are any "cast iron" parts on our Kubota tractors.

What your tractor doesn't have an engine block or cylinder head?

 

[fried1765]

What your tractor doesn't have an engine block or cylinder head?

OK.....you got me!
I was thinking body parts, not engine parts.

 

[retired farmer]

(Hammer) No doubt one of the first tools ever used by man. I am almost old enough to remember one's first smashing of one's thumb.

 

[Tractor Gal]

I am happy to report that I've had good success with this steering cylinder. Of course, for some, turning a relatively simple job into an all-day affair may not qualify as success. But, for this shade tree mechanic, it has been a good day.

One of the steering cylinder guides was bent slightly. "Slightly" means less than 1/16", I would guess...probably less. But, apparently it was enough to let the cylinder "droop" on one side to begin and then spread along the way. When it was out of the guide, the turning of the wheel caused that one guide to bend.

Generally, I'm not a violent person but after taking that right hand guide off umpty-ump times trying to get it exactly straight, a person can have a good excuse to become somewhat testy. As mentioned above, the hammer became my tool of choice as I finally just decided to stop being gentle with the thing and give it a good whack. It took several of those, actually. It was finally straightened enough to get it mounted and get my little honey of a tractor back into the garage. There, I decided to remove the guide again to try for a better straightening since I wasn't convinced that it was a good job yet. It was a far better spot, mainly because the ants were not crawling everywhere, plus, the concrete floor was cool and it was in the shade.

So, I'm considering ordering a new right-hand guide just in case, if you know what I mean. I'd rather not go through this again. The good part is that I was able to learn a few things about this tractor...and about myself! Persistence is a virtue, they say. Not a good thing to pat yourself on the back, but a person has to find enjoyment wherever it can be found.

Thanks all for the help. You did a great job...again.

Tractor Gal

 

[Russell King]

Glad to hear you got it fixed.

You may be able to find some flat washers that fit under the head of the bolts that are larger diameter and can reinforce the guides from bending.

There are fender washers, wide washers and standard washers that have different outer diameters.

Use longer bolts if you stack up washers very much so that the bolt still has a couple of threads sticking out of the threaded hole.

 

[Henro]

I am happy to report that I've had good success with this steering cylinder. Of course, for some, turning a relatively simple job into an all-day affair may not qualify as success. But, for this shade tree mechanic, it has been a good day.

One of the steering cylinder guides was bent slightly. "Slightly" means less than 1/16", I would guess...probably less. But, apparently it was enough to let the cylinder "droop" on one side to begin and then spread along the way. When it was out of the guide, the turning of the wheel caused that one guide to bend.

Generally, I'm not a violent person but after taking that right hand guide off umpty-ump times trying to get it exactly straight, a person can have a good excuse to become somewhat testy. As mentioned above, the hammer became my tool of choice as I finally just decided to stop being gentle with the thing and give it a good whack. It took several of those, actually. It was finally straightened enough to get it mounted and get my little honey of a tractor back into the garage. There, I decided to remove the guide again to try for a better straightening since I wasn't convinced that it was a good job yet. It was a far better spot, mainly because the ants were not crawling everywhere, plus, the concrete floor was cool and it was in the shade.

So, I'm considering ordering a new right-hand guide just in case, if you know what I mean. I'd rather not go through this again. The good part is that I was able to learn a few things about this tractor...and about myself! Persistence is a virtue, they say. Not a good thing to pat yourself on the back, but a person has to find enjoyment wherever it can be found.

Thanks all for the help. You did a great job...again.

Tractor Gal

Now that the tractor is usable, I’d take another look because I don’t think 16th of an inch is enough to cause the cylinder to fall out of the brackets holding it. I think the brackets are about an 8th inch thicknes. I could measure one, but it’s after 9 PM and I don’t feel like doing it.

So anyway, I would take another close look at what’s going on and try to measure if there’s a bit of slop remaining. Perhaps because the other bracket that you have not straightened is also bent?

Just a thought. Thinking about it I think that one bracket has a little tab that goes around one of the bosses where the hydraulic fittings are connected. But the other one is flat. I don’t know which one you actually straightened and it may have been the flat one. If it happened to be the other, the one that can only be oriented one way, there’s always the possibility that the flat one could be taken off and reversed and that would cause it to be bent in the direction that would tighten things rather than loosen things.

Again, just something to think about. I’m glad you’re tractor is back in operation and you are a happy camper at this point.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Russell and Henro, your thoughts mimic what I had thought, too. A washer would possibly keep the guide in place. And 1/16" inch wouldn't seem enough to cause problems. BUT, in viewing the cylinder as I turn the wheel, it does have a little bit of movement from side to side. I thought it would be held solidly in place but that's not the case.

So, to prevent issues with this in the future, I have ordered BOTH LH and RH guide. The LH guide does have the "prongs" (or whatever they're called) to prevent the cylinder from pushing too far to the right. That's where the bend seem to have occurred. And, that's why I couldn't get it straight, regardless of the whacking. I'll be interested to see if the new ones make any difference. If not, it was worth the purchase...$26+ with shipping. I will keep the "damaged" ones...just in case! Better to have something in the event of another problem.

Thanks again. You are all just great!

TG