Steel cost redux

[SidecarFlip]

First off, I apologize to everyone for interjecting any political context into the closed thread. Won't happen again...

On steel and the rising costs. I only buy from my supplies (Contractors Steel), domestically produced steel. Whether it's stainless of hot rolled or cold rolled or another alloy. No exceptions because I state to my customers that I only fabricate products from steel sourced domestically.

That presents some constraints for me in as much as domestic steel can be a hard commodity to procure today. I've rejected loads of iron shaped (angle, tubing and flat material that are stamped 'Hencho Mexico' in the past.

With my stainless, there is only one domestic supplier that produces mirror polished and laser filmed stainless, Carpenter Technologies, and I always pay a premium price, tariff or no tariff.

Tariff's not with standing, the price of materials, while seeming high is only keeping pace with inflation. As the rate of inflation increases and the dollar becomes worth less, the price of all good' both hard and soft, increases as well.

Just go to the grocery store and look at what you bought 10 years ago compared to what you buy today. That will give you a good perspective of the cost versus the value of the dollar. gain, I apologize that I interjected

I realize end users see substantial price increases on small quantities but rest assured that there is really no gouging taking place, it's supply and demand and capitalism at work.

Without tariff's and an equal trade balance, at some point, we'd all be eating with chopsticks and the preferred American language would become Chinese. Don't want to go there myself.


Just an FYI in my perspective.

Again, I apologize for the political comment. Just me but it will not happen again.

 

[GeoHorn]

First off, I apologize to everyone for interjecting any political context into the closed thread. Won't happen again...…
….Without tariff's and an equal trade balance, at some point, we'd all be eating with chopsticks and the preferred American language would become Chinese.....

Well that lasted for a few sentences anyway...

 

[mike paulson]

All I know is I'm paying double for the steel I buy now.

 

[mickeyd]

One of the big reason that foreign steel is cheaper than steel produced locally is the EPA. Due to EPA regulations most coke plants in the US have been shut down and so have a lot of blast furnaces because of it.

At the US steel mill in Gary, IN, they can only make coke at night so that people can't see the smoke being generated.

 

[mike paulson]

One of the big reason that foreign steel is cheaper than steel produced locally is the EPA. Due to EPA regulations most coke plants in the US have been shut down and so have a lot of blast furnaces.

At the US steel mill in Gary, IN, they can only make coke at night so that people can't see the smoke being generated.

Say what you want, but since Trump's tariff's I'm paying double for steel

 

[GeoHorn]

One of the big reason that foreign steel is cheaper than steel produced locally is the EPA. Due to EPA regulations most coke plants in the US have been shut down and so have a lot of blast furnaces because of it.

At the US steel mill in Gary, IN, they can only make coke at night so that people can't see the smoke being generated.

That makes NO sense at all. EPA regs apply equally night or day.
The reason US Steel shut down is because Mexican (thank you NAFTA), Chinese (thank you Nixon) and Indian steel producers don't pay salaries or benefits like health care for workers. Simple. Very simple.
So US workers went jobless and US cities bankrupt and American families hurt. Economics 101.

 

[mike paulson]

Spoke to the general manager at our local true value about a week ago and he anything you see here made of metal like fencing, angle, animal cages and all the hardware they stock is going up 40% plus. 48inch 60 ft rolls of wire fencing increased 70% percent. I myself have nixed a couple of personal tractor implement projects because of steel cost

 

[skeets]

scrap prices havent gone up much I dont think

 

[D2Cat]

I drive by a scrap yard 2/3 times a week. He has a big sign that has stated $110 per ton for a few months. No price changes here.

 

[shootem604]

A glut on the market from vendors that can't/won't sell into the US might help us here up north get a break on steel prices. As it is, over the last year or so some material my local shop has had a hard time getting because suppliers were trying to get it into the US before the tariffs hit.

 

[Missouribound]

I think that political comments are necessary. They help form opinions and teach the uneducated about reality. As far as tariffs go they are exactly like taxes...at least in my opinion.
As long as they affect EVERYONE then it's good for the country as a whole.
But when they start getting focused on a certain group or groups just to punish or make a point, then they are a product of political propaganda used to push an agenda.

Was my observation political or not?

And there are far worse things than tariffs intended to balance trade.
As we sit here in this forum there are things being done to re-write history because it isn't politically correct for some groups. Historic monuments have been torn down in the effort to erase history. What used to be sacred and proud history of the USA is now offensive to some. Pretending history didn't happen because it offends some people is, in my mind, as close to a criminal offense as you can get.

 

[BAP]

I think that political comments are necessary. They help form opinions and teach the uneducated about reality. As far as tariffs go they are exactly like taxes...at least in my opinion.
As long as they affect EVERYONE then it's good for the country as a whole.
But when they start getting focused on a certain group or groups just to punish or make a point, then they are a product of political propaganda used to push an agenda.

Was my observation political or not?

And there are far worse things than tariffs intended to balance trade.
As we sit here in this forum there are things being done to re-write history because it isn't politically correct for some groups. Historic monuments have been torn down in the effort to erase history. What used to be sacred and proud history of the USA is now offensive to some. Pretending history didn't happen because it offends some people is, in my mind, as close to a criminal offense as you can get.

Well said. Ignoring our past, wether it’s good, bad or indifferent, will lead history to repeating itself. What happens in the past makes us as a country what we are today.

 

[GeoHorn]

Well said. Ignoring our past, wether it***8217;s good, bad or indifferent, will lead history to repeating itself. What happens in the past makes us as a country what we are today.

I don't think it's "erasing" history (the removal from public places the confederate statues.) It's placing it in proper perspective. I was born/bred a Southern Boy. I watched "The Grey Ghost" on black/white TV growing up with pride. The pride in my southern heritage was ingrained by the culture of the period and upbringing here in the South. The "N-word" was common vocabulary amongst my playmates, none of whom thought it an improper term but thought it ordinary language. Children model their peers and parents. When I was a child, I thought like a child....and continued when "grown" out of habit.
One day I quit my childish ways. The definition of "learning" is "A change of behavior".

The confederate "heroes", despite popular notions, are often military and political figures who have been aggrandized by nostalgic emotions rather than factually addressed lessons of history. Those "heroes" are often admired, praised even, citing their "right" and belief in the sovereignty of their individual STATEs as the basis for secession.

BUT each and EVERY ONE were ACTUALLY TRAITORS because they VIOLATED THEIR OATHS taken to support the U.S. Constitution when they took official office or military assignments. The Oaths taken were Official Constitutional Oaths adopted in 1789 for all military officers, enlisted men, and Federal Offices. Only by violating their personal and public oaths were they capable and enabled to resign their offices/commissions and pursue a rebellion against our country.

An often-quoted comment attempting to justify that behavior is "The Civil War was not about Slavery". Horse Poop! READ THE ARTICLES OF SECCESSION which each and every state adopted as the basis for their actions. Many of those state legislatures State in the FIRST SENTENCE that their reason for secession is Slavery...and those that don't say so in the first sentence say it in the first paragraphs!


While Lee, Davis, and others might be admired for adherence to their personal belief systems... they are to be held in contempt for their abandonment of their Constitutional Oaths and the traitorous results and deaths caused by their actions.

And THAT is a FACT OF HISTORY that should NEVER BE ERASED, I agree. However, statues to their "honor" in public places are inappropriate. Would you like a statue of Benedict Arnold in front of the capitol? I hope not!

But I believe it is HISTORICAL and of great value that we not destroy the statues of the confederacy... but that their proper place is in History Museums where we can remember and NEVER FORGET that turning against OUR COUNTRY is a treasonous act... and doubly-so when it involves violation of public oath of loyalty to the U.S. Constitution and the mass killing of fellow citizens in order to promote and preserve the enslavement of others.

 

[SidecarFlip]

All I know is, every time order steel (for stock) now, the price increases and I have to pass that increase along to my customers. It's the Reagan 'trickle down effect'.

 

[SidecarFlip]

That makes NO sense at all. EPA regs apply equally night or day.
The reason US Steel shut down is because Mexican (thank you NAFTA), Chinese (thank you Nixon) and Indian steel producers don't pay salaries or benefits like health care for workers. Simple. Very simple.
So US workers went jobless and US cities bankrupt and American families hurt. Economics 101.

Actually, that is a true statement. USS only cooks coke at night. Part of it s their location. They abut Gary, Indiana which is an urban area, heavily populated so what the inhabitants cannot see, all the better...

 

[SidecarFlip]

scrap prices havent gone up much I dont think

They actually went down once the Chinese quit buying boatloads of ferrous scrap. I remember back when the Chinese were sucking 90% of the domestic scrap output and people were scrapping everything and anything.

Not so today.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I drive by a scrap yard 2/3 times a week. He has a big sign that has stated $110 per ton for a few months. No price changes here.

I have to ask, is that processed scrap or general scrap? Big differencre Processed scrap is easily manageable pieces, usually cut or sheared to a certain size whereas unprocessed can be anything.

The company I retired from is in bed with Omni-Source which is the largest scrap processor in the country

Scrap yards have very diverse rules as to what they accept for a certain price and I bet the $110 per ton is processed.

When the scrapper has to inject labor (like torching or breaking or shredding or bailing, the price drops because of the overhead involved.

 

[Poohbear]

Price hikes on steel didn't just start recently. In my AC/sheet metal business my costs rose every year on metal since 1984 with my biggest price jumps starting 2008 until I retirered 2016.
USS is reopening the pipe plant near me at Lonestar, Tx supposedly putting about 500 back to work. That's a good thing brought about by domestic energy .

 

[SidecarFlip]

Price hikes on steel didn't just start recently. In my AC/sheet metal business my costs rose every year on metal since 1984 with my biggest price jumps starting 2008 until I retirered 2016.
USS is reopening the pipe plant near me at Lonestar, Tx supposedly putting about 500 back to work. That's a good thing brought about by domestic energy .

They keep pace with inflation for the most part but as of late, they spiked and the producers blame it on Trump, which may or may not be true.

I'd say that is a good move in as much as USS CLOSED the pipe mill in Lorain, Ohio last year I also suspect the working enviroment in Texas is different (no union, no built in overheads).

 

[Poohbear]

They keep pace with inflation for the most part but as of late, they spiked and the producers blame it on Trump, which may or may not be true.

I'd say that is a good move in as much as USS CLOSED the pipe mill in Lorain, Ohio last year I also suspect the working enviroment in Texas is different (no union, no built in overheads).

Texas is a " right to work " state but the Lonestar plant has allways had a union and its history has not been a peaceful one in the early years in the 1950's. A few members had a thing for dynamite at stricke times.