Spend my money - New 40-50hp Tractor. Kubota vs Massey

[Mich4x4]

New guy here that is having a hard time making a decision after countless hours of research. This is going to be long...

I have 11 acres which about 25% wooded. The rest is a river floodplain with fallow fields that I plan to work in the future. Buying additional wooded acreage is a definite possibility. I have a 15 tree orchard and plan on several smaller food plots for whitetail hunting. I have a gravel driveway and we do get a significant amount of snow every winter. I use wood pellets to heat the house and buy them palatalized by the ton. I would like to be able to move the pallets around with the tractor loader. If i could guess the tractor will be used for 60% loader work, 20% field work (brush hog, disc, tiller), and 20% other (grading, snow, tree/brush removal, and general tasks)

I have always been of the opinion to buy a bigger piece of equipment than you really think you need. The old saying "no one ever complained about having too much horsepower or too much torque" applies.. I do not need a 40-50hp tractor for most of the stuff I'm planning on doing, but I would like to have more than enough power and lift capacity.

The only problem I see is weight. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 (lease) and would hate to have to move up to a 2500 if I decided there was a need to trailer the tractor around. A 40-50hp model with loaded tires and fluids is probably at the very top end of my truck's towing capacity.

So, here we go.. I'm looking at the following:

L3901DT
L4701DT
MX4800DT

Initially I priced the above with the 8x8 shuttle trans but may want to think hard about the hydro version. I am more of a simplistic kinda guy. Drive manual truck/cars and feel that the more "nannies" a vehicle or piece of equipment has the more likely it will spend time in the repair shop. Is the HST inherently more complicated and troublesome than the tried and true shuttle?

I'm also considering one of the newer Massey Ferguson offerings.
Do any of you guys know anything about the Massey 2705e? It is VERY comparable to MX4800 on paper, has a turbo Shibaura engine with NO DPF, and seems to have a really good fit and finish. Much better than some of the offerings from Mahindra and the other S. Korean companies.

The Massey is also significantly cheaper than the Kubota MX4800 with more options.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[nickelplated5s]

Get a used L4740 HST.

 

[Mich4x4]

Get a used L4740 HST.

I'd love to... I have found a used MX4700, L4400, L4600 all in really good shape with low hours. The problem is financing. Based on my research, there are really only 2 ways to finance used equipment

1) Personal loan from a Bank or Credit union - Most large banks don't even offer personal loans and if they do, the interest rates are anywhere from 7% to upwards of 15%.

2) Home equity loan - Don't like the idea of using my house as collateral for a tractor.

I plan on taking advantage of a 0 down and 0% plan if I can..

 

[SidecarFlip]

Forget a HEQ loans for anything. The Fed has eliminated the interest deduction on HEQ loans this year.

No deduction.

I'd forget an HST tractor if your plans are any ground engaging tasks. I'd go with a gear drive hydraulic shuttle or powrershift instead. HST is fine but inefficient for ground work and they eat horsepower as well.

I've had a few i the past. Gear drive now.

Massey will give you the best bang for your buck and I think (not sure) that Massey engines are less complex emissions wise than Kubota. It will depend on availabliity and local to you dealers more than anything else.

Trying to think of dealers in your area. I know there is a Kubby dealer in Flint. Not sure about Massey.

 

[Mich4x4]

Forget a HEQ loans for anything. The Fed has eliminated the interest deduction on HEQ loans this year.

No deduction.

I'd forget an HST tractor if your plans are any ground engaging tasks. I'd go with a gear drive hydraulic shuttle or powrershift instead. HST is fine but inefficient for ground work and they eat horsepower as well.

I've had a few i the past. Gear drive now.

Massey will give you the best bang for your buck and I think (not sure) that Massey engines are less complex emissions wise than Kubota. It will depend on availabliity and local to you dealers more than anything else.

Trying to think of dealers in your area. I know there is a Kubby dealer in Flint. Not sure about Massey.

Thank you.
Yes there is Rosy Brothers (Kubota) in Dryden about 10 miles from me and Dick Coulter (NH Massey) in North Branch about 15 miles away. Both decent dealers from what I've been told, but then again, I don't have any personal experience with either.

There is much more info on the web about the Kubota Mx than really anything Massey makes as for as a new CUT is concerned. In fact, i'm having a hard time finding much info about the 2705e at all. As I said, on paper the two tractors are very comparable. Kubota has a huge following and is essentially the Toyota of the tractor world (Goes forever and holds it's value) while the Massey Looks really good, but has me a bit concerned because there doesn't seem to be a ton of them out there. Reviews, opinions, etc seem to be non-existent.

Your thoughts on Gear drive/shuttle are interesting. Most folks rave about Hydro tractors saying the're the best thing ever. Me... I guess I really don't have a preference. I do not like the associated whine noise that comes with most hydro units, but then again, my time on either a hydro tractor or gear drive has been limited. I did have a 1978 Massey 255 for a bit, so any type of trans would be a step up from the fully manual one that had.

 

[chim]

Get a used L4740 HST.

Interesting. The loaders on the L3240 thru L5740 Kubotas are LA854. These are rated at about 200 pounds more capacity than the MX4800's LA1065. The LA854 shows 2,489 pounds at the pin / 1,878 pounds at 500mm. The LA1065 shows 2,275 / 1,691.

I found this on two different sources, and it contradicts the info that I saw somewhere else that said the Kubota loader number was its capacity in KG.

 

[SDT]

New guy here that is having a hard time making a decision after countless hours of research. This is going to be long...

I have 11 acres which about 25% wooded. The rest is a river floodplain with fallow fields that I plan to work in the future. Buying additional wooded acreage is a definite possibility. I have a 15 tree orchard and plan on several smaller food plots for whitetail hunting. I have a gravel driveway and we do get a significant amount of snow every winter. I use wood pellets to heat the house and buy them palatalized by the ton. I would like to be able to move the pallets around with the tractor loader. If i could guess the tractor will be used for 60% loader work, 20% field work (brush hog, disc, tiller), and 20% other (grading, snow, tree/brush removal, and general tasks)

I have always been of the opinion to buy a bigger piece of equipment than you really think you need. The old saying "no one ever complained about having too much horsepower or too much torque" applies.. I do not need a 40-50hp tractor for most of the stuff I'm planning on doing, but I would like to have more than enough power and lift capacity.

The only problem I see is weight. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 (lease) and would hate to have to move up to a 2500 if I decided there was a need to trailer the tractor around. A 40-50hp model with loaded tires and fluids is probably at the very top end of my truck's towing capacity.

So, here we go.. I'm looking at the following:

L3901DT
L4701DT
MX4800DT

Initially I priced the above with the 8x8 shuttle trans but may want to think hard about the hydro version. I am more of a simplistic kinda guy. Drive manual truck/cars and feel that the more "nannies" a vehicle or piece of equipment has the more likely it will spend time in the repair shop. Is the HST inherently more complicated and troublesome than the tried and true shuttle?

I'm also considering one of the newer Massey Ferguson offerings.
Do any of you guys know anything about the Massey 2705e? It is VERY comparable to MX4800 on paper, has a turbo Shibaura engine with NO DPF, and seems to have a really good fit and finish. Much better than some of the offerings from Mahindra and the other S. Korean companies.

The Massey is also significantly cheaper than the Kubota MX4800 with more options.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

I will speak in generalities here to avoid rehashing my VERY bad experiences with MF/AGCO.

In 2007 I bought a new MF tractor. In 2013/4 I bought another new and larger MF tractor.

I had trouble with both and was treated badly by both MF and their dealers.

I will not go into specifics here (already did so years ago on another MF forum).

For the only time in my 69 year life, I threw someone off of my property and will NEVER again have anything to do with MF/AGCO.

SDT

 

[D2Cat]

SDT, I get the distinct impression you don' like those guys! But you know, those older Masseys were good, strong tractors. Those Super 90's with the Perkins were reliable and sipped fuel.

Mich4x4 the saying, "no one ever complained about having too much horsepower or too much torque", is often spoken when someone is giving buying advice/tractor size to someone else. You sure can get too much tractor for a desired task, and when you do it's worse than trying to work all day with boots too big and you're walking through mud!

Take people's advise and sift it through the needs for your property. Be very logical. Leave emotion out of the buying process. Take your time. Buyer's remorse is the result of NOT doing these things.

My opinion, unless you're plowing fields all day, I'd have an HST without a doubt, especially if you ever might want your female half (being politically correct) to help .

 

[Mich4x4]

SDT, I get the distinct impression you don' like those guys! But you know, those older Masseys were good, strong tractors. Those Super 90's with the Perkins were reliable and sipped fuel.

Mich4x4 the saying, "no one ever complained about having too much horsepower or too much torque", is often spoken when someone is giving buying advice/tractor size to someone else. You sure can get too much tractor for a desired task, and when you do it's worse than trying to work all day with boots too big and you're walking through mud!

Take people's advise and sift it through the needs for your property. Be very logical. Leave emotion out of the buying process. Take your time. Buyer's remorse is the result of NOT doing these things.

My opinion, unless you're plowing fields all day, I'd have an HST without a doubt, especially if you ever might want your female half (being politically correct) to help .

Good advice..

Given my tasks in the very first post, what would you recommend? My fear is buying something, spending 30k, and not getting enough tractor to do whatever I need. The only downfall I can see to buying a 45-50hp tractor is the associated weight given my tow vehicle. That is IF I ever decide to tow the tractor somewhere.

I will not be plowing fields all day so a HST is sounding better and better.

No offense to anyone, but I just cant stand the size of the really small tractors. BX and some of the small L series. I'm 6'3" and weigh 225lbs. I feel like I would look ridiculous on something smaller than say a 3901. To be honest, I'm not even sure I can go smaller than a 4701.

I really don't have many tight areas on my property so a bit bigger footprint really shouldn't make a difference. I plan on keeping the tractor for at least 20 years if all goes well. Hard to predict what might happen or what I might need to do during that timeframe.

I'm all ears... If you think I'm crazy for looking at tractors close to 50hpp please tell me what you think I should be looking at. I really don't want to spend more money than I have to and maybe I need to rethink some things going forward.

Thank you!

 

[D2Cat]

This paragraph is your description of your needs. "I have 11 acres which about 25% wooded. The rest is a river floodplain with fallow fields that I plan to work in the future. Buying additional wooded acreage is a definite possibility. I have a 15 tree orchard and plan on several smaller food plots for whitetail hunting. I have a gravel driveway and we do get a significant amount of snow every winter. I use wood pellets to heat the house and buy them palatalized by the ton. I would like to be able to move the pallets around with the tractor loader. If i could guess the tractor will be used for 60% loader work, 20% field work (brush hog, disc, tiller), and 20% other (grading, snow, tree/brush removal, and general tasks)"

The 3 acres of woods, will you be cutting firewood, leave as is, just general clean up? The orchard, what's the distance between trees? How do you plan to use the tractor in these trees?

Sounds like your primary needs are: 1. Maintain driveway and snow removal there. 2. Be able of off load 1 ton of pellets. 3. Not be so big as to not be able to trailer with existing PU.

How often do you think you'd need to trailer the tractor and how far? If you're only going a couple of miles you can road it (unless you live on a busy highway). If you're consideration it to get it to a dealer for some service, I'd say don't be concerned about PU capacity, hire it hauled no more than that would be needed.

Off loading 1 ton of pellets. I have an L4240 and I off loaded a 500# propane tank a couple of weeks ago. I had some counterweight or it would not have raised the tank. According to propane tank manufactures it weighs around 1100# empty. That's an example of a 40HP tractor.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The only problem I see is weight. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 (lease) and would hate to have to move up to a 2500 if I decided there was a need to trailer the tractor around. A 40-50hp model with loaded tires and fluids is probably at the very top end of my truck's towing capacity.

Let me start by saying you can not safely towing anything over a small L with that truck, can you physically do it, yes, but not safely by the numbers.

By the time you add trailer weight, Loaded tires, FEL and any other Implement you'll be overweight.

And not even going on just the weight limits, 1/2 ton trucks just plain lack when it comes to towing anything other than a simple small utility trailer.
Ending up in a pile on the side of the road because you overloaded it just sucks...that is if it didn't kill you in the process.

Your also listing and looking at just the economy models, no desire for a cab for the winters?
A Grand L or an M will be more money, but will offer substantially more options.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Let me start by saying you can not safely towing anything over a small L with that truck.
By the time you add trailer weight, Loaded tires, FEL and any other Implement you'll be overweight.

And not even going on just the weight limits, 1/2 ton trucks just plain lack when it comes to towing anything other than a simple small utility trailer.
Ending up in a pile on the side of the road because you overloaded it just sucks...that is if it didn't kill you in the process.

+10 on that. In my view, any 1/2 ton short bed truck is only good for two things. Picking the kids up at school or hauling groceries. Late model Mopar's especially have crappy rear suspensions not suitable for towing anything.

Good status symbol and one upping the neighbors but being useful. Not.

If you insist on a FCA product to tow a tractor it better be at least a 2500 preferrably a 3500 series truck with a motor under the hood.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Thank you.
Yes there is Rosy Brothers (Kubota) in Dryden about 10 miles from me and Dick Coulter (NH Massey) in North Branch about 15 miles away. Both decent dealers from what I've been told, but then again, I don't have any personal experience with either.

There is much more info on the web about the Kubota Mx than really anything Massey makes as for as a new CUT is concerned. In fact, i'm having a hard time finding much info about the 2705e at all. As I said, on paper the two tractors are very comparable. Kubota has a huge following and is essentially the Toyota of the tractor world (Goes forever and holds it's value) while the Massey Looks really good, but has me a bit concerned because there doesn't seem to be a ton of them out there. Reviews, opinions, etc seem to be non-existent.

Your thoughts on Gear drive/shuttle are interesting. Most folks rave about Hydro tractors saying the're the best thing ever. Me... I guess I really don't have a preference. I do not like the associated whine noise that comes with most hydro units, but then again, my time on either a hydro tractor or gear drive has been limited. I did have a 1978 Massey 255 for a bit, so any type of trans would be a step up from the fully manual one that had.

Iv'e owned in all my years, at least 6 Kubota tractors not including the 2 M's I now own and they were all hydro's except my present 2 so I have a ton of experience and hundreds of hours too.

Think of your automatic transmission in your car. It slips and makes heat (from slippage), so does an HST transmission. Heat is power lost. Your auto transmission has numerous gear ratios to overcome that heat and fluid coupling loss, a Kubota has a range shift but that's it. Fine for doing easy stuff but for any kind of serious ground engagement it's lacking. Only a gear drive with multiple gear selections (I have 12-12 on my 90 and 16-16 on my 105 will provide you with the correct ration and couple that with a poewershift or a hydraulic shuttle (instant forward to reverse) it's pretty hard to beat

I'd never go back to a hydro unless it was a small compact utility tractor for mowing the lawn or light loader work. But then I run large framed M series units. I farm. If I tried to farm with a Kubota hydro, I'd be the laughing stock of the town I live in. I say try because they won't do what I needed done.

 

[edritchey]

I don't know if you want to spend a little more than you will on a MX4800 but for about another 2k you can get a M5660SUDT it will lift about 1000lbs more on the 3 point and several hundred more on the loader plus it is heavier all around so it's going to do better in the fields then any of the MX series tractors. It also has a governor button on the dash that comes in handy if you want it to keep itself at a 540 pto speed under load real nice option if you want to run a pto generator. Plus the gear drive transmission will hold up better for field work. And includes a rear remote.

Plus it's fun to spend other peoples money

 

[KennysNewFarm]

Good advice..

Given my tasks in the very first post, what would you recommend? My fear is buying something, spending 30k, and not getting enough tractor to do whatever I need. The only downfall I can see to buying a 45-50hp tractor is the associated weight given my tow vehicle. That is IF I ever decide to tow the tractor somewhere.

I will not be plowing fields all day so a HST is sounding better and better.

No offense to anyone, but I just cant stand the size of the really small tractors. BX and some of the small L series. I'm 6'3" and weigh 225lbs. I feel like I would look ridiculous on something smaller than say a 3901. To be honest, I'm not even sure I can go smaller than a 4701.

I really don't have many tight areas on my property so a bit bigger footprint really shouldn't make a difference. I plan on keeping the tractor for at least 20 years if all goes well. Hard to predict what might happen or what I might need to do during that timeframe.

I'm all ears... If you think I'm crazy for looking at tractors close to 50hpp please tell me what you think I should be looking at. I really don't want to spend more money than I have to and maybe I need to rethink some things going forward.

Thank you!

My MX5800 with FEL, front forks, and 6 foot brush hog on a 7,000 lb tandem trailer weighed at the scale 8,740 lbs. No wheel weights and tires are not filled. Just giving you an idea of weight. Yes we were overweight. Traveled 10 mins to move a deer stand and 10 mins through a scale just out of curiousity. On the plus size the truck was a gas powered 2500 and it barely noticed the weight.

As far as your ideal horsepower I went with 50 hp PTO so I can do whatever I want utilizing almost any implement made within reason. I can small bale, run a tiller, brush hog, lift big bales, etc. I did look at the massy when I was looking for my tractor and I didn’t like the plastic feel, the gas tank for me sat almost on the ground between front and rear tires and it didn’t seem like it had good ground clearance.

My next question for you is do you think you might be interested in a cab option?

 

[BigG]

I would second the idea to pass on the MF. They were at one time good strong tractors. I bought a new 2005 MF 1528. I traded it in for scrap money. Dealers are gone, parts were way overpriced and the machine was poorly designed and built. Pure junk.

I would not buy to much of a machine. This is not your lively hood. Spend your money wisely. If you need a bigger machine once in awhile rent one. Working in your trees with a tractor that it to large will not be fun.

You could build a storage bin for your wood pellets that would be small enough to be moved by any tractor that you buy. I was thinking along the lines of a feed bin, with a bottom drop, so that you could carry a pail of pellets to pour into the stove at a time.I am assuming the pellets are bagged.

 

[Mich4x4]

Thanks for the comments.

Re: my truck...

Yes, I'm not a Farmer. I have no real need for a 3/4 ton pickup other than possibly towing a tractor that i don't have yet, on a trailer that I don't have yet. I had a Ram 2500 and sold it last year because It sat in my driveway and I barely used it. No sense in having a 55k truck sitting in the driveway so I can put 7k miles a year on it. I work from home and don't drive much so I leased a Ram 1500 with 0 out of pocket for $206.00 a month. Cant beat that...

I realize that there is no way half ton will pull a MX series tractor loaded down on a trailer. Not going to happen... Not safely anyway.


Are Massey's really Junk? I read that they had quality issues at points in the companies history and with certain offerings. I think their current offerings are pretty good. Fit and finish seems on par with Kubota and their choice of engine, Shibaura, is along the same lines (quality wise) with Kubota and Deer. They also offer a completely steel tractor. No plastic hood, fenders or floor board parts.


Hydo vs Shuttle... Honestly, for the price, I don't think I would mind the shuttle at all. Heck, I'm coming from a manual gear drive MF 255 that was not synchronized and had no shuttle. I know many people say if your main use for the tractor is loader work, then you WANT hydro.. If you're pulling ground engaging implements than gear is fine. Hmmmm.. This is a tough decision.

Last.. the MX4800 HST (if I decide to go with Hydro) is at the VERY top of my budget. If I spent more SWMBO (She who must be obeyed) would not be happy. Plus, I would have a really hard time storing a larger tractor and would also have a hard time with wondering if I made the right decision. For my purposes, anything thing bigger than the MX4800 doesn't really make sense.

I know this is a Kubota forum so I expect folks will be partial to Kubota, I'm just trying to get some real life opinions from both sides.

Thanks!!

 

[SDT]

Thanks for the comments.

Re: my truck...

Yes, I'm not a Farmer. I have no real need for a 3/4 ton pickup other than possibly towing a tractor that i don't have yet, on a trailer that I don't have yet. I had a Ram 2500 and sold it last year because It sat in my driveway and I barely used it. No sense in having a 55k truck sitting in the driveway so I can put 7k miles a year on it. I work from home and don't drive much so I leased a Ram 1500 with 0 out of pocket for $206.00 a month. Cant beat that...

I realize that there is no way half ton will pull a MX series tractor loaded down on a trailer. Not going to happen... Not safely anyway.


Are Massey's really Junk? I read that they had quality issues at points in the companies history and with certain offerings. I think their current offerings are pretty good. Fit and finish seems on par with Kubota and their choice of engine, Shibaura, is along the same lines (quality wise) with Kubota and Deer. They also offer a completely steel tractor. No plastic hood, fenders or floor board parts.


Hydo vs Shuttle... Honestly, for the price, I don't think I would mind the shuttle at all. Heck, I'm coming from a manual gear drive MF 255 that was not synchronized and had no shuttle. I know many people say if your main use for the tractor is loader work, then you WANT hydro.. If you're pulling ground engaging implements than gear is fine. Hmmmm.. This is a tough decision.

Last.. the MX4800 HST (if I decide to go with Hydro) is at the VERY top of my budget. If I spent more SWMBO (She who must be obeyed) would not be happy. Plus, I would have a really hard time storing a larger tractor and would also have a hard time with wondering if I made the right decision. For my purposes, anything thing bigger than the MX4800 doesn't really make sense.

I know this is a Kubota forum so I expect folks will be partial to Kubota, I'm just trying to get some real life opinions from both sides.

Thanks!!

I've been a Ford guy, a MF guy and now a Kubota guy.

I still own three Fords, as well as 5 Kubotas.

I will NEVER again do ANY business with MF/AGCO. It's not just the products, though the quality is not up to Kubota standards, its the company and the dealers (at least those that I have dealt with).

SDT

 

[southernboy]

I'd love to... I have found a used MX4700, L4400, L4600 all in really good shape with low hours. The problem is financing. Based on my research, there are really only 2 ways to finance used equipment



1) Personal loan from a Bank or Credit union - Most large banks don't even offer personal loans and if they do, the interest rates are anywhere from 7% to upwards of 15%.



2) Home equity loan - Don't like the idea of using my house as collateral for a tractor.



I plan on taking advantage of a 0 down and 0% plan if I can..

My Credit Union financed my two year old Kubota L2501 for 3.5%.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mich4x4]

Welp... Massey has been removed from consideration.

Just spoke with the dealer about the quote he sent me. Based on flat MSRP with no movement or discount of any kind. He explained that Kubota's "cash price" is normally only +/- $900.00 different compared to their finance price. Massey's cash price is several thousand dollars better than their finance price.

In other words, Massey makes customers pay and arm and a leg to take advantage of their financing deals. Kubota does as well, just not as bad.

I was looking at the MX4800 vs MF 2705e.
Kubota carried a higher MSRP and interest rate vs the lower MSRP and better interest rate from Massy. I wanted 0 down, less than 2% interest, for 84 months. Massey came back with a monthly payment $30.00 more than Kubota given the same terms. Ummmm... NO THANK YOU!

So Kubota it is... hands down..

Now I have another issue.. MX series vs L series... More specifically, the MX4800 vs the L4701. I still have the 3901 in the back of my head but I would really like something closer to 50hp and a frame size up from the 3901.

What does the L offer that the MX doesn't? What does the MX offer that the L doesn't. Price is similar (within 15.00 a month) but I'm at the top of my budget considering these two machines so every dollar makes a difference.

Thoughts.. Also still on the fence regarding HST vs Shuttle. Shuttle being $1200.00 cheaper, any arguments one way or another?

This is harder than buying a new car. Too many variables and too much "if I'm going to spend that much, why not spend a bit more and get this"

Help.. Please!!!!