Speculative tractor upgrade - pondering

PaulL

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B2601
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Looking again at my options in NZ. And weirdly, I see that the Grand-L in NZ (the 40 series is still current for us) supports a MMM. Lots of people ask about MMM for a Grand-L and I usually say "no more". Weird that I know more about US implements than NZ.

But, if it's available in NZ, that means Kubota makes it. Makes you think. It's only L3240 and L3540 that offer it here, the larger L4240 and L5740 don't for some reason. Perhaps bigger wheels.

 
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PaulL

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Resurrecting this to avoid repeating too much.

We have purchased our property in Wanaka, and it's our first week down here. We haven't yet sold the old property, so I have no tractor here, but I do have the Takeuchi mini-ex (and quite a bit of irrigation to install the next few days).

The country here is reasonably dry, and we have 17 acres. We have maybe 300 metres (900 feet) of gravel driveway to maintain. The house section is about 2 or more acres, the remainder is pasture. A neighbour is running some sheep through, but it looks like I'll need to mow those in peak season.

Some of the pasture has an old (disused) irrigation ditch running through it, the roadside has a ditch down the edge, and there are a lot of young trees along our driveway and through the house section.

My tasks will be driveway maintenance, mowing (mostly rough mowing), lift and carry/loader work/forks work, running some implements (chipper, sprayer, fertiliser spreader, log splitter)

I've narrowed down my options I think to two basic potentials for the tractor:
1. Keep the B2601, and get a Massey-Ferguson, perhaps a 135 or 148, as a mower tractor. The Massey is hard to add remotes to, so I'd be limited to a bush hog or finishing mower.
2. Sell the B2601 and buy a larger Kubota. Probably L, Grand-L or MX.

I'm inclined to the second option for a few reasons:
a. One fewer machine to maintain. Although an old Massey would be cool
b. Gives me a more capable loader than I have on the B
c. Lets me run a hydraulic offset flail/verge mower (enough weight, and enough remotes)
d. Lets me run some other implements I may want in future

I think a standard L is a bit too economy for me to be happy. The Grand-L is attractive, but in NZ we still get the Lxx40 model. We get L4240 and L5740. They are missing some of the features of the US spec models, but on the upside I think no-DPF. https://kubota.co.nz/product/tractor-premium-l40-series#productFeatures The L5740 is a bit bigger frame.

My local tractor guy says they sell very few L4240s, they sell quite a few L5740 into golf clubs and the like, but most lifestyle farmers are getting an MX. The MX5200 is what we get here, turbo by the looks, and again no DPF. https://kubota.co.nz/product/tractor-mx5200 It's cheaper than the Grand-L, weirdly some of the capacities are a bit less than the Grand-L (for example, 3ph lift is listed at 1,300kg v's 1,750kg on the Grand-L. But sometimes these stats are just wrong on the website, so taking that with a grain of salt. The PDF brochure lists 1,050kg on the MX (24 inch behind pins), 1,250kg on the L4240 (again at 24 inch).

He can give me actual pricing, but sounds like the MX will be around NZ$55K, the Grand-L perhaps north of NZ$60K.

Then, I have options for the mower. In broad terms I have three options (although I could mix and match - buying two of them):
  • Something like this - a hydraulic offset flail/verge mower: https://landmax.co.nz/product/landmax-agl165-reach-verge-mulcher-flail-mower/ This would be great for the verge, around trees, and pushing over some edges and slopes we have to trim grass. Our dogs are already getting barley seeds in their coats, which is pretty high maintenance, I'd like to knock the top out of all the grass and this could do it. The downside is that it's narrower than I'd like - 1.6m = 62inch / 5'2
  • A rear finish mower, around 2.3m = 78 inch 7'6. Something like this with 5 spindles: https://landmax.co.nz/product/landmax-fm230-finishing-mower-2/ Mows wider, so reduces mowing time for the big areas (70% of the mowing time perhaps). But there are some things it just wouldn't mow at all, and arguably the house section is my highest priority - mowing between the trees with an RFM would be annoying, with a hydraulic side shift potentially would be pretty good.
  • A rear flail - either a straight flail, or a side shift without tilt like this: https://landmax.co.nz/product/landmax-eco-mow-1950h-flail-mower/ 1.9m mowing width puts it between the two, but still a hydraulic side shift. Right between the other two - more width than the verge mower, doesn't do tilt, but does do side shift. It would mow most of what I want, but not quite everything.
I'm leaning towards the verge mower, which would mean two rear outlets. The MX comes with one standard, but it won't do constant flow - so I need a second to run the log splitter anyway. Two outlets would run the verge mower.

Then the next thing is a hedge trimmer. Farms around here all have pretty big hedges. I can pay a guy about $750 to come trim it once or twice a year. Or spend NZ$7,500 to get my own hedge trimmer. That requires more outlets - but the sales guy pointed out I can just use the loader remotes for that, since I wouldn't need the loader whilst running it, and it's nicer to have a remote to move it anyway rather than using 3 rear remote levers. https://landmax.co.nz/product/landmax-brm120-hedge-trimmer/ That's a one-day-in-the-future buy, our hedges are planted, but are still quite small.

So, questions for the team:
1. Would I regret getting an MX instead of a Grand-L? The Grand-L has some nicer features - better loader joystick positioning, nicer transmission, rubber floor mats etc. I feel like the transmission I don't need - it does lots of things, but none of them are needs - they're more bells and whistles. The MX is cheaper
2. The MX says it has lower capacities than the Grand-L. Is this really true? Or are they paper specs, and in real life the MX is more tractor? I note that the sizes, weights and hydraulic flows are almost identical.
3. What do people think on mowers? What would you do? I'm thinking I can live with reduced efficiency when mowing the fields perhaps 2-3 times a year, in order to get higher efficiency mowing the house block. Our ground is very hard, so I'm unlikely to make ruts in the house block, and I'll eventually resow the lawn with fine fescue (and put in irrigation), at which point the areas with the nice lawn will get a robot mower.

Adding a few photos:

This is the north end of the property, looking along the irrigation ditch. Those piles will get pushed in to fill it in somewhat, but you can see the neighbour took hay off, and left all the difficult parts - which is what I want to mow. This is looking south west, the house would be slightly out of frame to the left.
IMG_4509.jpeg


This is the east of the property. This paddock has been mowed, and is pretty dry.
IMG_4507.jpeg



This is again from the north, similar to the first shot, but looking almost due south. You can see the house in the distance.
IMG_4508.jpeg


Looking across the front of the house - this is the house section, and you can see some of the trees along the driveway - these all have to be mowed around.
IMG_4505.jpeg


This is looking from the implement shed towards the house - same direction as the previous photo but from further away. Again showing the trees down the drive that need to be mowed around, and the driveway that will need maintenance.
IMG_4500.jpeg
 
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jimh406

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MX is very nice and capable. If in the budget, I’d go with it.
 
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GrumpyFarmer

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Good day.

First things first…that place would great! Congratulations!

I compared and drove both GL6060 and the MX, and I went with MX based on Spousal Unit preference…she thought there was better visibility over the hood on the MX for her. So that’s what we did. If it were me in would I have got the GL…that’s what I was planning to buy when we went to drive them. I don’t have any regrets.

I would mention though that my Mx is open station and it does not have a tilt steering wheel and i wish it did. I drove a cabbed MX and it had the tilt wheel. I am not sure it matters or not or worth the difference in price, but if you want one now is the time to decide.

i think same way about the cab…now is the time to decide. IMO the GL had a much nicer cab and superior seat. the loader was smoother on MX but who knows if that was true…i was so worked up after driving both I needed a shower after I was done test driving😉

also my MX has fuel fill on top of hood. The GL that I drove had the fuel fuel down by your knee off the deck, and IMO that would’ve much easier.

as far as the specs, at least with mine, MX had front end loader with more lift but negligible amount. On the rear huge difference and the GL was much superior. I think if lifting round bales or heavy implements on the rear GL had a lot more lift. Something to consider depending on your applications.

to your questions:
1. I have no idea what you would prefer. Not trying to be a dick here but a lot of your posts favor a smaller machine recommendation…so I really don’t know what you would prefer. Personally I don’t think there is a bad choice to make between the MX and the GL. Both pretty awesome but they are different. If not understand the differences r applications would pump the brakes and under stand that..JMHO before dropping that much money. Why is an M not in the running?

3. I have loaded tires and wheel weights. I don’t have a problem with it making ruts on dry ground. I do have a problem when ground is wet. I can tell you it will make ruts and leave indentations if park it where wet. But my B will too. The difference is I can get by with my B on much wetter ground before it make a mess. If you would not drive a truck and park there for fear of ruts, then don’t drive a 4000lb plus machine there either.

as far as a mower, I have BH and it hangs back pretty far…I mow a lot of brush and in woods making trails so it’s think it makes sense for me…but it adds a bit of overhang off the rear. If I was only mowing grass I would have to consider a flail mower or a finish mower or maybe a batwing (at that point maybe need to consider a M or actua utility tractor size machine)depending on how large my pasture is. I have a small pasture now and after an hour or so in I wonder how much larger a mower MX could pull. I’d reach out to @McMXi as I believe he has both a flail and a bat wing and I believe he mows a good bit more than I do and he has pretty solid advice. He also has an MX and an M and would be a good sanity check on what you are looking at IMO.

as far as weight and ruts…in mow right up to my barndominium with Mx and BH and have no issue with ruts when it’s dry. It’s not a golf course and I would consider my yard area ‘low maintenance’😉

finally, I’d recommend you go drive both. If money becomes an issue, I would get whichever one allows you the station (cab if it matters) and accessories you want such as 3rd function or rear remotes or whatever. Check and compare everything you will touch between the two machines.

not my money or anything but I think both are great machines but each have slightly different applications.

Congrats and good luck
 
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PaulL

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B2601
Jul 17, 2017
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NZ
First things first…that place would great! Congratulations!
Thanks, we're very excited. It's great.

I compared and drove both GL6060 and the MX, and I went with MX based on Spousal Unit preference…she thought there was better visibility over the hood on the MX for her.
We get the older GL here in NZ, and it looks pretty dated. The MX looks modern. I know it doesn't change how it works, but it's nicer.

I would mention though that my Mx is open station and it does not have a tilt steering wheel and i wish it did. I drove a cabbed MX and it had the tilt wheel. I am not sure it matters or not or worth the difference in price, but if you want one now is the time to decide.
I have a tilt steering wheel on the B2601, and I've never used it for actual tilting. But I've stood on it a hundred times and cursed it. So I'd be OK without. I don't think I need a cab - it gets cold here, but not too hot. If it's that cold out, I'm probably not driving the tractor - it's a hobby farm and nothing grows in winter anyway.

also my MX has fuel fill on top of hood. The GL that I drove had the fuel fuel down by your knee off the deck, and IMO that would’ve much easier.
It'd be nice, but not a deal breaker. The B has the fill on the hood. I live with it.

as far as the specs, at least with mine, MX had front end loader with more lift but negligible amount. On the rear huge difference and the GL was much superior. I think if lifting round bales or heavy implements on the rear GL had a lot more lift. Something to consider depending on your applications.
I don't have any specific 3ph uses - just a mower, a hedge trimmer, a splitter, a chipper, a sprayer, a fertiliser spreader. They're all well within the weight capability of the MX. I'm unlikely to move bales.

1. I have no idea what you would prefer. Not trying to be a dick here but a lot of your posts favor a smaller machine recommendation…so I really don’t know what you would prefer. Personally I don’t think there is a bad choice to make between the MX and the GL. Both pretty awesome but they are different. If not understand the differences r applications would pump the brakes and under stand that..JMHO before dropping that much money. Why is an M not in the running?
Yeah, I know. I was really torn on perhaps keeping the B. But it is actually too small for this property, and doesn't have the power or weight to run an offset flail. Everything else on my list arguably the B would do. But mowing will be my primary use.

3. I have loaded tires and wheel weights. I don’t have a problem with it making ruts on dry ground. I do have a problem when ground is wet. I can tell you it will make ruts and leave indentations if park it where wet. But my B will too. The difference is I can get by with my B on much wetter ground before it make a mess. If you would not drive a truck and park there for fear of ruts, then don’t drive a 4000lb plus machine there either.
It doesn't rain much here. If I'm making ruts I'm probably happy. At the present time, after two days of rain, I could probably drive a concrete truck on the ground without making ruts. I will need to look at what tires I can get on it - I doubt I need ags (can't see when it'd ever be wet enough to need to dig in, and ags are pretty aggressive around the house). But also probably turfs aren't enough. So maybe industrials or hybrids. Not even sure if you can get hybrids in NZ.

I’d reach out to @McMXi as I believe he has both a flail and a bat wing and I believe he mows a good bit more than I do and he has pretty solid advice. He also has an MX and an M and would be a good sanity check on what you are looking at IMO.
Good recommendation, thanks.

as far as weight and ruts…in mow right up to my barndominium with Mx and BH and have no issue with ruts when it’s dry. It’s not a golf course and I would consider my yard area ‘low maintenance’😉
Yeah, my current property is very low maintenance. It's mostly pasture grass and weeds, and quite uneven. Over time I plan to improve the house section bit by bit - a quarter acre or half acre at a time. That means glyphosphate to kill everything, then rotary hoe and pick out the stones, then put in irrigation on that area, then level it off and plant a fine fescue lawn in that area. Fine fescue is quite good because you can use a selective herbicide to kill other grasses without killing the fescue - so I can get rid of the weed grasses if they come back. But I will do a section first and see whether it works. Anything I establish nice lawn on I'll shift to mowing with a robot mower.

finally, I’d recommend you go drive both. If money becomes an issue, I would get whichever one allows you the station (cab if it matters) and accessories you want such as 3rd function or rear remotes or whatever. Check and compare everything you will touch between the two machines.
Good advice. Unfortunately the local dealership has just taken over Kubota from another dealer, and have basically no stock in. They'll have it in a month, but we'll be back in the north in a month. I may have to go look in a different dealer, but I'm not going to waste their time asking them to let me drive them when I have no intention of buying there. Kubota in NZ are pretty strict about their dealers not selling out-of-area / poaching clients. I can do it anyway, but I'd need a good reason to do it.

Having said that, the local dealer said there's plenty of guys nearby to me who have an MX, and he can probably hook me up with someone to go look at their machine and how they're using it.


Congrats and good luck
Thanks. Looking forward to this part of the journey. Probably won't be another new machine for ten years after this, so I need to pick right.
 
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PaulL

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I've been looking online. I need to go see in person. Given the MX really isn't much bigger than the GL, and has very similar (sometimes lower capacity), the GL is a live option.

The GL is a more luxurious tractor. The MX has no floor mats, the loader stick is up front where you have to reach out to get to it, is has individual pioneers on the loader rather than a single lever coupler, it's a more basic tractor all round. I don't think I have easy access to after market mats in NZ.

How comfortable is the MX loader stick actually? I can maybe convince myself that pioneers are better because I can more easily connect the hedge trimmer to the front couplers. I have pioneers on the B2601. But I worry that I'll be unhappy with a basic tractor.
 

hedgerow

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It funny all my bigger, fancier tractors have tilt wheel in them and I never use them. One gentlemen that helps me during spring planting and fall harvest moves the wheel up ever time he gets out of the tractor or semi for that matter. I am way north of a couple thousand hours on my MX6000 and have had no issues and no regrets. I like the joy stick for the loader and don't mind the pioneer's. I like basic tractors. Mine is a open station and for what I use it for a cab wouldn't work well. I have many other cabbed tractors. I know there are folks on here that love there flail mowers and that's great. I had a fourteen foot flail type mower years ago. At the time I was doing a lot {200,300} hours a year of CRP mowing. The up keep on that mower was just to much. Blades just didn't hold up. There were two good days with that mower the day I bought it and the day I sold it. Went to a bat wing style mower and would never go back. Looking at your pictures it looks like you need a rough cut for the pasture and some sort of finish for the trees and yard. I love my zero turn for my finer cut mowing which is about four hours a week during the grass growing season.
 

PaulL

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B2601
Jul 17, 2017
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Talking to the dealer today, the L5740 does not have the single lever coupler - it has individual pioneers. He said they mostly sell it to commercial operations - golf courses, people who are mowing all day, and who therefore want the air conditioned cab.

I'm really down to:
  • Loader stick. I can probably live with this
  • More 3ph lift. Again, not likely that I'll notice, and I'd be surprised if their spec is even true - if it is that's very weird
  • Better seat. Nice, but not a deal breaker
  • Floor mats. Not gonna pay $10K for floor mats - I can cut up some other rubber floor mat and use cable ties to attach it
Friday I'll talk to him in person and we'll work through options and price. I think it'll be:
- Extra rear remote (with a detent so I can run log splitter and hedge trimmer)
- SSQA forks
- box blade
- mower (I may get this separately, no real benefit buying at the dealer)
 
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