Some jobs have more risk than others

fried1765

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Just now.

Plumbing co owner just sent me this. He was out marking a one call request for a job that we have to do just down the street from this location. We bid this job as well, but didn't get it (we were about $1,800 more).

He sent me a video. This hole is 9 plus feet. You can see the guy in the hole wearing a black baseball hat (not a hard hat). There is no trench box or shoring, no ladder, spoils pile right on the edge of the hole. They had plenty of room to bench the trench with reasonably stable soil. he told me that they were lowering the guys into the hole using the excavator.

View attachment 109050

I encouraged him to do the right thing. He placed a call into the municipal authority, fire department and the local OSHA office located about 15 mins away. Nothing. Is that what's to be expected on a friday at 3:30 pm? I hope these employees have life insurance.


To reiterate. THIS IS NOT THE COMPANY THAT I DO WORK FOR.
Looks like digging in clay.......but......NO EXCUSE!
Disappointing, that at least fire dept. did not show up to put a stop to that.

You really need to fwd that picture to OSHA.
It will not be "ratting".
I will be saving a life for next time!
 
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D2Cat

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There is nothing about this job that looks fine. You can see crumbs from the soil pile literally hanging on the edge. Unreal.
I realize it's not fine. My point was it looks fine to someone (the low bidder) because they made short cuts to get the job and think they can get a way with it..
 
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RCW

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@dirtydeed - I know too many people that have been hurt badly by situations just like that. At least it looks dry, if it’s any saving Grace….

Of course fatalities can happen just as easily too. Looks like that guy is all crouched down - he’s a goner if that collapses on his back….

Like you said, at the VERY least, that should have been benched and spoils further away.

I got a couple of the public water and wastewater systems to get trench boxes. They would share them with their neighbor systems to avoid situations just like that!

A friend worked for a contractor laying 12” ductile iron water main. Trench is ~6’, then bedded.

He’s straddling the main at a joint pounding brass wedges. His head is above ground level when standing.

The bottom 2 feet of the hole collapse on one side, shifting the main and pinning his leg against the side of the trench wall.

Pretty much busted his leg from the knee down to his toes…..😳
 
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Outnumbered

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Speaking of risk...I was watching these guys assembling a tower crane across the street today. They are about 200' off the ground here...The crane will grow as the building goes up supposed to be the tallest building in our area when done. I zoomed in on the last pic, see the guy reaching out to help guide the new section of the boom to connect it where they are standing. All I can say is NOPE!
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lugbolt

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previous job (kubota and off-road equipment dealer), coworker was laying on the ground under a off-road vehicle, jack stand gave out. I wasn't back there, just heard a a faint holler. Broke two ribs and lots of bruising. Everything was per osha, but it was a matter of the jackstand failing. Boss bought the jackstands, they were cheap. But that's all we had to work with. It was either use them or don't do the work. The latter was occasional.

I had it happen to me once, changing a TH350 transmission on a 79 Chevy pickup. But in that case the jack stands didn't fail, the frame did-it bent where the jackstands were on the frame. It is a C-channel and the C faces inwards, bent and then slid right off, with me under it. I was home alone, doing this, GF just happened to stop by because it was my birthday. Had she not stopped by I'd have been a goner. Didn't get hurt too badly but couldn't move, pinned me. She knew enough to get the jack out, and jack the truck up enough that I could wiggle out. Bent the oil pan but I don't care. I told the owner to have it towed off and pay someone else to fix that pile of steaming feces. That's one of many reasons I don't like GM vehicles. Cheaply built. I have owned many and the 79 was the last.

not even mentioning racing accidents, in the pit area, on the track. I used to race go-karts all over the midwest (won several championships in the 1980's) and I had a rookie get tangled up with me as she tried to pass between me and the wall. She endo'd I don't know how many times, got thrown off and up/over the wall. Got hurt pretty good, and never races again. I watched it happen after I was spun into the infield, ended up facing directly toward the wall, watched while her body was tossed right over the wall. Watched a sprint car go up in flames, driver unconscious. They got him out quick enough to not get burnt too badly. I was sitting in front of the line waiting for them to get off the track so we could run our main. Quite a few drag racing wrecks. Worst was a friend who was asked to drive someone else's really fast corvette (well it was not a real corvette just a body on a chassis that resembled a vette). This car ran mid 4.20's in the 1/8 mile at 170mph and change. My friend who was asked to drive had never been in a car that fast. But he did pretty good the first 2 rounds. Third round he menioned how much of a handful it is to drive it. 4th round, it got away from him as he pulled the chutes, the chutes got tangled up, didn't deploy correctly, got the car turned around, went over....and over and over and over, THROUGH the top of a 40' Oak tree, took some limbs off, hit the ground on the roof. broke both legs, some ribs, his back, one wrist. That was in 2007. To this day he still does not walk correctly, everything hurts, he is disabled for the rest of his life. Bad deal.

occupational, I had a trailer dolly flip back and hit me square in the lower lip, send the corner of the handle right through and into my gums. Bled like a stuck hog for a few days. Still wear the scar. Tons of cuts, bruises, broken bones from different occasions. Mostly fingers and toes. I had a little spill a few weeks ago and had to go into the doctor for x-rays. They brought out the x-ray images and asked what all those things are in my hand. It's slivers of metal. Copper wire mostly, some steel shards from grinding mower blades (I did it daily for 30 years). I had them pick quite a few of them out, and am bandaged up for another few days. Over those 30 years, I would imagine that I've also had enough fluids on my skin to soak through, probably cause issues later on. The life of mechanic'ing. Don't smoke or drink anything and no drugs, but plenty of mechanic dirt, grease, grime, which may be just about as bad in the long term-according to one doctor.
 

Daren Todd

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A highschool classmate died this way at age 19.
My grandfather took 40,000 volts while up in a tower. Blew out the bottoms of his feet before he was tossed off the tower.

The impact of him hitting the ground started his heart back up.

Spent 3 months in the hospital, skin grafts to the bottoms of his feet.

His boss was shagging someone in the Porta potty and didn't check to make sure the lines were clear before allowing them to be powered back up.
 

Bmyers

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Just now.

Plumbing co owner just sent me this. He was out marking a one call request for a job that we have to do just down the street from this location. We bid this job as well, but didn't get it (we were about $1,800 more).

He sent me a video. This hole is 9 plus feet. You can see the guy in the hole wearing a black baseball hat (not a hard hat). There is no trench box or shoring, no ladder, spoils pile right on the edge of the hole. They had plenty of room to bench the trench with reasonably stable soil. he told me that they were lowering the guys into the hole using the excavator.

View attachment 109050

I encouraged him to do the right thing. He placed a call into the municipal authority, fire department and the local OSHA office located about 15 mins away. Nothing. Is that what's to be expected on a friday at 3:30 pm? I hope these employees have life insurance.


To reiterate. THIS IS NOT THE COMPANY THAT I DO WORK FOR.
When you contact OSHA, a response for a normal call is about a week. For an immediate danger to life and health, OSHA will typically respond in 24 hours (realize a response may be a phone call, doesn't mean that an officer will show up). Even with the OSHA office being right there, most offices are already overloaded and you will be placed in a que based on severity of the incident and impact to the community. Realizing that OSHA will receive non-valid complaints from disgruntled employees , from individuals that are mad because a contractor that is working in their neighborhood so the person files an invalid complaint to try to get at the contractor, and then you have actual complaints that truly need to be investigated. The burn out for compliance officers are high and many move on to more lucrative private industry jobs.

IN our area, the fire department would not have the authority to do anything. Calling them would get no response.

As far as local authority, they do not have the authority to enforce Federal Regulations. Most would refer you to OSHA to have a private company taken care of the issue.

In our State, we have both Federal and State OSHA, but State OSHA only deals with government entities.

Does it make it right that the contractor placed the employee at risk? No.
 
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motionclone

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Just now.

Plumbing co owner just sent me this. He was out marking a one call request for a job that we have to do just down the street from this location. We bid this job as well, but didn't get it (we were about $1,800 more).

He sent me a video. This hole is 9 plus feet. You can see the guy in the hole wearing a black baseball hat (not a hard hat). There is no trench box or shoring, no ladder, spoils pile right on the edge of the hole. They had plenty of room to bench the trench with reasonably stable soil. he told me that they were lowering the guys into the hole using the excavator.

View attachment 109050

I encouraged him to do the right thing. He placed a call into the municipal authority, fire department and the local OSHA office located about 15 mins away. Nothing. Is that what's to be expected on a friday at 3:30 pm? I hope these employees have life insurance.


To reiterate. THIS IS NOT THE COMPANY THAT I DO WORK FOR.
If the guy in the hole is the owner of the company, OSHA rules dont apply, he can be as dumb as he wants. If he puts an employee at risk thats a different story.
 

dirtydeed

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If the guy in the hole is the owner of the company, OSHA rules dont apply, he can be as dumb as he wants. If he puts an employee at risk thats a different story.
Wow! Really? I never heard that before. I do think that the guy in the hole was the owner of the company. If he keeps this up, he won't be around for much longer.
 
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dirtydeed

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When you contact OSHA, a response for a normal call is about a week. For an immediate danger to life and health, OSHA will typically respond in 24 hours (realize a response may be a phone call, doesn't mean that an officer will show up). Even with the OSHA office being right there, most offices are already overloaded and you will be placed in a que based on severity of the incident and impact to the community. Realizing that OSHA will receive non-valid complaints from disgruntled employees , from individuals that are mad because a contractor that is working in their neighborhood so the person files an invalid complaint to try to get at the contractor, and then you have actual complaints that truly need to be investigated. The burn out for compliance officers are high and many move on to more lucrative private industry jobs.

IN our area, the fire department would not have the authority to do anything. Calling them would get no response.

As far as local authority, they do not have the authority to enforce Federal Regulations. Most would refer you to OSHA to have a private company taken care of the issue.

In our State, we have both Federal and State OSHA, but State OSHA only deals with government entities.

Does it make it right that the contractor placed the employee at risk? No.
Y. he got the run around from the two local FD's that he called. They said to call OSHA (which he did and got a recorded message). It's a shame that an accident/fatality needs to happen first.
 
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Bmyers

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Y. he got the run around from the two local FD's that he called. They said to call OSHA (which he did and got a recorded message). It's a shame that an accident/fatality needs to happen first.
IF the gentleman left his name and contact info, they will most likely get back with him. Depending on what the gentleman tells OSHA and if he has pictures, they will most likely open an investigation. Depending on the company and the history, it could be no more than a phone interview to a full blown knock on the door lets see records.

The phone call isn't a waste, especially if has pictures and is willing to take the time to testify. Yet, most people don't want to get involved and once they hear that they could be used as witnesses to make the case, many decide they don't want to get involved. OSHA gets lots of anonymous phone calls with complaints, most of those go no where.
 
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skeets

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Different agencies react differently.
If we got a call, oh by the way all calls are anonymous, for violations an inspector was sent out either that shift or beginning of the next.
In the cases of an accident, or fatality , we were re-called from where ever mine we were inspecting, and sent , ASAP.
And in the case of roof fall, or inundation, or fire, it was all hands on deck.
One local mine had a roof fall on a belt line which cut off ventilation and started a belt fire.
There was a string of cars with flashing lights that went a mile or more comming up the interstate.
So it depends who is called, and how much of an emergency it is
 

Bmyers

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Different agencies react differently.
If we got a call, oh by the way all calls are anonymous, for violations an inspector was sent out either that shift or beginning of the next.
In the cases of an accident, or fatality , we were re-called from where ever mine we were inspecting, and sent , ASAP.
And in the case of roof fall, or inundation, or fire, it was all hands on deck.
One local mine had a roof fall on a belt line which cut off ventilation and started a belt fire.
There was a string of cars with flashing lights that went a mile or more comming up the interstate.
So it depends who is called, and how much of an emergency it is
I have to disagree with you on one point, not all calls are anonymous.

Now, if your the one being inspected by OSHA, are you entitled to know who made the complaint? No, the law protects workers from having their ID revealed to the employer.

I have not had the pleasure of working with MSHA, but have a few friends who have and it is interesting the difference between MSHA and OHSA.
 

skeets

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Really, it is like day and night, MSHA has right of entry, OSHA does not, although that may have changed. They can show up but the operator does not have to let them on the property, with MSHA they cannot stop an inspector,, if they do thats when the federal marshals come in to the picture, and at that juncture, thing become less than ideal for some people.
However, with MSHA a call to the hotline, the info is taken, and the supervisor at the office takes the information , and then the inspector sanitizes the complaint, changing phrases, sentence structure, and so on so while retaining the nature of the complaint. When the complaint is given to an operator to read,, yes a written copy is required to be given to the operator, or contractor, there can be no correlation between the complaint and a person.
OSHA is a world of its own, and it is a shame really. I have dealt with OSHA people on accidents and 90% of them havent got a clue what they are looking for or at
 
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GrizBota

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Wow! Really? I never heard that before. I do think that the guy in the hole was the owner of the company. If he keeps this up, he won't be around for much longer.
Sounds like he operates based on hope. Probably had a couple of pails full of it in the home with him. He’s certainly not operating based on knowing. More than likely a shorter tater than a longer career.

I suppose the undertaker needs work too. And the hole’s already dug and maybe even partially backfill by the time that fellow gets the call. Can’t fix stupid.