I am all over the map on what tractor to buy. I have never owned land and a tractor before, but I have helped out on a friend's 50 acre ranch driving his small old Ford tractor with a 5 foot brush hog. I am now moving from a house near downtown Austin to a 72 acre ranch that will close in early Feb or late Jan. The ranch currently has 45-50 acres in hay field that look to be in pretty good shape. A third party fertilizes and harvests hay on the property to keep the agriculture exemption on the property but I am unsure if this will continue, though I could likely find someone else that would be interested in doing so. Additionally as part of the great change in where we live I promised one of my daughters a horse. The land is in excellent condition but some early projects will be to remove the fencing pens for the greyhounds the current owner used to raise and to return the tracks to hay field use. I also need to keep the woods and the weeds at bay from encroaching on the coastal hay fields. I am unsure what I will be doing on the property 3 years from now. I may have 10-20 head of cattle, I may bail hay, I may plant pecans, so basically the future is wide open. Every friend and family member I talk to has a different take as to what tractor to buy. The opinion of my landed friend is that it takes two tractors for a property like this. One that is small and can mow the fence line and around the trees, and another that can do scale work. My current thoughts are an old 25-40ish 2WD tractor with a 4-5 foot brush hog and then a large tractor. I am seriously considering a M5-111 as a buy once pay one solution to the scale problem. This way anything I would find myself doing in 3-25 years from now will be doable. Baling hay is a definite possibility and the main reason I would want 85+ HP. My time is also valuable and it needs to be spent wisely and with enjoyment. I've also considered a single tractor like an MX6000 at half the price of an M5-111 and just stick with one tractor and continue indefinitely on a third party to bale and take away the hay. I am extremely mechanically inclined and have tons of tools to work on a tractor, but at least one of my tractors needs to be turn key. I feel like if I bought an M5-111 that spending the money would sting for a year or two and then past that point there would be no regrets, but another voice in my head says 65K for a tractor is crazy unless you are making money. For members with land similar to mine what tractor or tractors have working for you? I know I need something in the first few weeks of ownership but I am just all over the map. I do plan on buying a zero turn mower for the 2-5 acres near the house on day one but beyond that this much land is daunting for me. I know its a good problem to have but would I be a fool or smart for buying a large tractor early?
So Many Ways to Go
- Thread starter BAR
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Let me add the current land owner has an old 85HP IH 2WD tractor, a Case construction tractor with a backhoe, and a garden/lawn tractor. He is taking it all with him. Not sure what the guy with the baler has but his partner used a Deere 5XXXE to cut and load the bales on one of my pre-ownership visits. There is also 10-15 acres of woods with very tall trees for the Texas area.
Well, you've dived in the deep end, haven't you
? Congratulations.Your land looks pretty flat, right? You're going to get lots of opinions, no 2 the same, so be prepared. Besides tractor/equipment, I recommend befriending neighbors and figure out whose judgement you can trust. Ask questions and listen. I think you're right to consider used equipment. First, you need a utility tractor. I'm thinking something in the 50 - 75 HP M or MX model range (I'm talking Kubota, but other makes may suit you better). 4 WD, SSQA loader, hydrostatic or shuttle shift tranny. Start with a 6 or 7 ft 3pt brush cutter. With the SSQA you'll be able to handle round bales with a spear and haul crap with a bucket. In my opinion, any tractor with a loader is better with 4wd.
I'd forget about cutting my own hay, for sure at first. It's a lot more involved than you might think.
Depending on the lay of the land, you'll always need to trim bushes, etc. And depending on your land and the size equipment you find, you may be able to run a bat-wing mower to mow pasture.
That's my thoughts, I'm sure others will disagree. Flame away
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I agree with what PoBoySaid, I would highly recommend an MX5800 or similar in HST, make sure you have front 3rd function and 2 sets of rear hydraulic remotes.
My MX5800 has great capability and will do anything and run anything on my woodland forestry property that is about 5 times your new acreage.
good luck with your new place and new to you tractor.
My MX5800 has great capability and will do anything and run anything on my woodland forestry property that is about 5 times your new acreage.
good luck with your new place and new to you tractor.
I'd get behind that recommendation. Don't dive in with a big tractor. Get the smaller tractor and keep the 3rd party haying. You may stop haying over time, or keep the third party, or do it yourself. But delay that purchase until you actually need it - it's a lot of money. A second hand smaller M machine, or an MX, even a grand L perhaps. Go second hand, treat it as your learner tractor. You can fix it if it breaks, and you can learn what you need v's what you want. $65K is a lot of money for a machine that doesn't create a financial return, so unless you're prepared to drop $65K on a hobby, I'd stay away from a machine that large. You'd be lucky if the return on the hay would even cover the payments on a machine that large - and then there's a lot of time and implements and experience that needs to go into that as well.
I am so in the deep end. I spent a week thinking the MX6000 was the right tractor. My main concern was that it pretty much eliminated the option to bale. Its hard to put a value on the ability to do something you are not sure you want to do though. In many ways the MX6000 ROPS would be better because of all trees. I just worry that I'll be kicking myself but maybe thats irrational.Well, you've dived in the deep end, haven't you
Your land looks pretty flat, right? You're going to get lots of opinions, no 2 the same, so be prepared. Besides tractor/equipment, I recommend befriending neighbors and figure out whose judgement you can trust. Ask questions and listen. I think you're right to consider used equipment. First, you need a utility tractor. I'm thinking something in the 50 - 75 HP M or MX model range (I'm talking Kubota, but other makes may suit you better). 4 WD, SSQA loader, hydrostatic or shuttle shift tranny. Start with a 6 or 7 ft 3pt brush cutter. With the SSQA you'll be able to handle round bales with a spear and haul crap with a bucket. In my opinion, any tractor with a loader is better with 4wd.
I'd forget about cutting my own hay, for sure at first. It's a lot more involved than you might think.
Depending on the lay of the land, you'll always need to trim bushes, etc. And depending on your land and the size equipment you find, you may be able to run a bat-wing mower to mow pasture.
That's my thoughts, I'm sure others will disagree. Flame away
There are lots of reasonably priced used tractors available, especially in Texas. I would bet you could find a tractor and a 6 ft mower suitable for your needs and spend no more than $10,000. Probably not hydrostatic or 4wd but a decent older John Deere maybe a 4020. Over time if you want something better you can possibly sell this equipment for what you payed for it. I have always tried to spend as little as possible on depreciating assets. For the $50,000 you saved by not buying the fancy Kubota you could buy a house here in Pittsburgh and rent it out ! There is a great book you might be interested in reading "Knowledge Rich Ranching" by Alan Nations. I highly recommend it. Its too easy to get sucked into the 'easy payment plan, no money down" lifestyle in my opinion. If you had to try earn your living off of the land I am not sure my opinion would change. These may seem like harsh words to some but I'm stickin to my guns as they say in Texas.
I agree in general terms - don't spend money you don't have to. The only exception is if you have plenty of money, and you see your tractor as a hobby. Plenty of people spend money on cars or trucks or boats, a tractor is a relatively small vice. But if you're buying it because you think you need to - you don't.
I can't find a good deal on a used tractor with a loader, but I can find nice 2WD tractors with no loaders all day long here. I was thinking about an old Ford like this https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/grd/d/san-antonio-ford-2000-tractor-shredder/7231671694.html but I hear from everyone that a front end loader is basically a requirement and I can see how useful they would be. However, if something like this can get me by for a while, then I would love to do that and make a more educated decision later on. The big issue here in Texas is taxation. The land has to be used for a commercial ag use or I will be paying another $750/month in taxes. Texas does not have income tax, but it does have a steep property tax which is bypassed if the land is taxed by its ag productivity. A hay operation does not have to be profitable to be net positive from a tax perspective here, but it does have to be 'real'. If someone else does the hay its still all good, I'm just unsure of that the third party will continue to be interested in working the land and I know that at some point the will retire as they are older gentlemen. Of course I could likely find another party or even pay to have it done, but that then leads me to thinking about buying a tractor that could do the work if I had to do it or want to do it. Again I'm not sure how to value that. Is it worth $5000, $10,000, $20,000? Its not quite as simple as "will a 65K tractor make me money?" as that answer is a solid NO. A 65K tractor keeps the option open in the future to maintaining the ag tax rate myself without buying another tractor. Also tractors are cool, and the M5-111 would look pretty awesome in the barn. Again, I am all over the map on this and admittedly pretty ignorant. The worst situation would be buying the M5-111 and finding out that its not useful on the property or buying the MX6000 and then buying the M5 later. Buying a $5000 Ford as long as it runs doesn't seem like a mistake unless I need something with a front end loader immediately.
I would not be going into debt on a tractor, but yeah you are right on everything. I have zero debt until I close on this property and even then very little once I sell my current home. I do want equipment that does jobs quickly and comfortably because I make more money with my day job than I will from this property. I will admit to getting a little tractor fever combined with this land being large enough to appear daunting for someone who grew up in a city. I like old tractors too, but I don't know enough about them to be confident yet. I'm sure I will get there, I'm just worried I won't ave the time to both fix a tractor and do what needs to be done on the property in the first year or two.
Here in Southwest Pennsylvania there are no shortages of folks willing and able to farm the land for free. I would bet its the same in Texas. Start talking to people. If you want to be a farmer try to make money then scale it to the point where you can justify an "Awesome" tractor. Read the book I suggested. Proper capital allocation buys freedom. The last thing anyone should pursue is unnecessary debt. If you have the cash take the $50,000 saved based on my suggestion and buy the SP500 index. In 20 years you might have $200,000 or more. Just my hillbilly opinion. Have fun and good luck.
I have a Jeep habit. I own two and have them setup the way I want so now its on to tractors I guess. I have noted that these tractors seem to hold their value quite well so even an expensive(ish) tractor bought new seems to be worth 75-85% of its value in 3 years and then basically stops going down in value. Its not quite the poof of money seen by all the people with German car fetishes in my current neighborhood. I have owned my pickup truck for 20 years now and don't regret spending what to me was a lot of money when I bought it. I tend to think that a Kubota utility tractor would be about the same but maybe I am just wrong about that and looking at this as a child who wants a new toy. I do recall thinking the same thing when I bought my truck though.
All the answers are in the questions of how fancy, how new and how much you want to spend.
I have a 50 acre farm and put up about 35 big rounds a year off of a few acres. So it's a hobby farm. No house, but nice barn, corral, creek, spring fed pond, and good fences and a well. I mow about 15 acres a couple of times year to control weeds. I use to use an 8' brush mower. Last couple of years I use a 7' flail I bought for $800. I pull it with a 730 Case. It's a plain Jane tractor, 2 wheel drive, about 79 HP diesel, 1966 model with a Westindorf loader. I bought it from the original owner for 5K with a 10' Bush Hog (brand) mower and some fence panels. Have owned it for 20 years and do nothing to it but change fluids and add fuel! I use it for pulling a Hesston round baler, and mowing with a Vicon disc mower. Both bought used.
The man selling the baler said it didn't work right, but he didn't know what to do about it. I paid $750 and spent no money fixing it, and have been using it for 10 years. The disc mower was replaced by a new on and the farmer parked in behind his barn out of the way. I paid him a few hundred for it, spend $200 fixing it and been using it for 10 years with no problems. He had removed the restrictor valve and slammed it to the ground so many times he broke the metal by the gearbox. Same story about a circular rake.
I also have a Deutz 6206 tractor I use for pulling the rake, some mowing, and just as a backup.
My point in this is I have less then 15K in all the equipment at that farm. So you can get the work done without spending a lot of money. I have one tractor at the house that is 2007, 42 HP, HST, loader, 3rd function, grapple, front and rear bale spear that cost a little more then all that equipment combined, and it doesn't do what they will do, but it's more fun to use! And my wife has a zero turn that cost more then that tractor! The two most expensive tools do not produce one penny of income either.
You just have to decide how much and when and why. If you're good with mechanical problems I'd suggest looking for something Kubota in the xx40 series tractor, or an M series 10 years old. Hasn't got to the EPA controls yet
I have a 50 acre farm and put up about 35 big rounds a year off of a few acres. So it's a hobby farm. No house, but nice barn, corral, creek, spring fed pond, and good fences and a well. I mow about 15 acres a couple of times year to control weeds. I use to use an 8' brush mower. Last couple of years I use a 7' flail I bought for $800. I pull it with a 730 Case. It's a plain Jane tractor, 2 wheel drive, about 79 HP diesel, 1966 model with a Westindorf loader. I bought it from the original owner for 5K with a 10' Bush Hog (brand) mower and some fence panels. Have owned it for 20 years and do nothing to it but change fluids and add fuel! I use it for pulling a Hesston round baler, and mowing with a Vicon disc mower. Both bought used.
The man selling the baler said it didn't work right, but he didn't know what to do about it. I paid $750 and spent no money fixing it, and have been using it for 10 years. The disc mower was replaced by a new on and the farmer parked in behind his barn out of the way. I paid him a few hundred for it, spend $200 fixing it and been using it for 10 years with no problems. He had removed the restrictor valve and slammed it to the ground so many times he broke the metal by the gearbox. Same story about a circular rake.
I also have a Deutz 6206 tractor I use for pulling the rake, some mowing, and just as a backup.
My point in this is I have less then 15K in all the equipment at that farm. So you can get the work done without spending a lot of money. I have one tractor at the house that is 2007, 42 HP, HST, loader, 3rd function, grapple, front and rear bale spear that cost a little more then all that equipment combined, and it doesn't do what they will do, but it's more fun to use! And my wife has a zero turn that cost more then that tractor! The two most expensive tools do not produce one penny of income either.
You just have to decide how much and when and why. If you're good with mechanical problems I'd suggest looking for something Kubota in the xx40 series tractor, or an M series 10 years old. Hasn't got to the EPA controls yet
Anyone here baling their own hay has older used equipment. I would hire it out and get the MX rops
I think you'll always find someone who'll make hay for you. In NZ we had less than 10 acres, and a local farmer was grazing it for free - he maintained the fences for us in return. If you're not trying to make money from it, then there'll be someone who wants to come through and make hay off it - basically they're getting use of your land for free, they only cost to them is lots of small parcels (presuming there are 50 other guys doing the same thing you are).
I'd say definitely don't jump into an expensive machine until you've lived there a couple years, met a few people, understood the lay of the land. A FEL is essential, once you have one you'll never go back. Nothing wrong with an older tractor - 10-15 years old would be my pick, but if you're over time going to be a two tractor farm, then buy the old one now. I'd make my large tractor the old one, and my small tractor the new(er) one - so you're looking for a largish old tractor for $5-10K. Hard to go wrong - it's still worth $5-10K in 3-4 years time. I'd guess an older one (70s) is less likely to need repairing than a newer one (80s or 90s) - if it's still going after 40 years it'll go for another 5.
I'd say definitely don't jump into an expensive machine until you've lived there a couple years, met a few people, understood the lay of the land. A FEL is essential, once you have one you'll never go back. Nothing wrong with an older tractor - 10-15 years old would be my pick, but if you're over time going to be a two tractor farm, then buy the old one now. I'd make my large tractor the old one, and my small tractor the new(er) one - so you're looking for a largish old tractor for $5-10K. Hard to go wrong - it's still worth $5-10K in 3-4 years time. I'd guess an older one (70s) is less likely to need repairing than a newer one (80s or 90s) - if it's still going after 40 years it'll go for another 5.
I'll not try to consider all aspects of your dilemma but will make several comments.
I would not get involved with the hay. You will need much more than a tractor to do your hay and can easily end up with more $$ in hay equipment than in a new M5-111. Let others with both experience and equipment do the hay. You can always change your mind in the future.
The Ford in the photo is a Belgian made 2000 built between 65 and, 68. It does have the right transmission (most don't) but has only about 32 PTO HP and is suitable for nothing larger than a (relatively light weight) 6' cutter and only in conditions that are not too heavy. Verify that it has live PTO, and you will definitely want a muffler. NEVER trust the hour meter on a Ford tractor of this vintage.
Before my barn turned orange, I used Fords almost exclusively and would recommend many. Myself, I would look for a three cylinder 4000 rather than a (3 or 4 cylinder) 2000. Considerably heavier and nearly 20 more HP. Also have wet rather than drum brakes. Should not be difficult to find.
Not familiar with the tax laws of TX.
I like the M5-111 and have considered one myself (HDC24) but I would have a very hard time justifying one for your current purposes.
SDT
Bmyers
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Grand L3560 with LA805 loader, EA 55" Wicked Grapple, SBX72 BB, LP 1272 mower
We have a small 80 acre farm. My grandfather farmed it for years with MF275 and MF383, which we still have both. The one thing he wished he had been able to purchase was a 4 wheel drive tractor.
Yet, he successfully farmed the property, had 30-40 head of cattle, pigs, and chickens. He used to do square bales and as he got older he switched to round bales that he could move with the loader on the MF383.
I'm wondering if a M4-071 would be a big enough tractor to accomplish what you need and not cost as much as the M5-111? I guess it depends on what size of hay baler you will be pulling and PTO requirements for it.
Yet, he successfully farmed the property, had 30-40 head of cattle, pigs, and chickens. He used to do square bales and as he got older he switched to round bales that he could move with the loader on the MF383.
I'm wondering if a M4-071 would be a big enough tractor to accomplish what you need and not cost as much as the M5-111? I guess it depends on what size of hay baler you will be pulling and PTO requirements for it.
I wouldn't pull the trigger on that one just yet. BTW, www.tractordata.com is a convenient site to see basic info on tractors. The Ford 2000 is unusual because there were 2 series, an early 4-cylinder and later 3-cylinder. You're not going to need a tractor for a couple of months, so try to be patient and 'keep your powder dry'. What you're looking for is pretty popular with deer hunters. Maybe when deer season winds down . . . who knows? In the meantime, get familiar with the market. When a good opportunity comes, you need to be prepared to act because good deals seem to go quick. You can always fall back to something like that Ford.
Couple of other wants/needs - power steering and live/independent PTO. And a shelter. You'll eventually develop quite a collection of tools, parts, accessories etc. The pre-ROP tractors would fit in a car garage, but at some point you'll have ROP and need a 9 or 10 ft door. And shelter for you. That summer sun beats on you and a canopy is a big help (never had a cab). Several people on here have adapted golf cart umbrellas to their tractors. My L35 has my first canopy and my, what a difference!
Which leads to this thought. If you're going to be trimming around those trees, I'd strongly recommend pruning the branches up to 10' or so, so your tractor can pass without hitting. A pole saw and brush cutter should probably be high on your list so you can get this done before summer. I don't know your age or physical condition, but that pole saw will give you an upper-body workout.
Russell King
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
I suggest that you get nothing at first but rental tractors to see what you can do with different size tractors or articulated skid steer or loader. I personally don’t like the way a skid steer vehicle tears up ground when turning that is why I suggest the articulated version.
Get with the current persons doing the hay, see if you can get them to commit to a “contract “ to continue with your property for a few years. You may also want to see if you could start to buy his equipment as he retires BUT I don’t think that your situation of being new to the country life would let you enjoy that’s life but you may. It is a hard life to get equipment to the right place at the right time to get the hay in at the right time, Other people can do it well and there will always be someone who wants to cut hay and they generally maintain the field also.
You can also maintain Ag exemption with many other animals including bees that are less work.
Sine you appear to have land on a riparian area you may want to look at soil conservation or wildlife management programs that may help on taxation
Get with the current persons doing the hay, see if you can get them to commit to a “contract “ to continue with your property for a few years. You may also want to see if you could start to buy his equipment as he retires BUT I don’t think that your situation of being new to the country life would let you enjoy that’s life but you may. It is a hard life to get equipment to the right place at the right time to get the hay in at the right time, Other people can do it well and there will always be someone who wants to cut hay and they generally maintain the field also.
You can also maintain Ag exemption with many other animals including bees that are less work.
Sine you appear to have land on a riparian area you may want to look at soil conservation or wildlife management programs that may help on taxation
Bar, Russell King and I both live nearby to you and your new place, for what it’s worth. You do not personally have to mow/bale hay to keep an ag exemption. Like others have suggested, the current guy who is haying there will likely love to hear you suggest he can keep doing so. (He probably needs the hay.). You will still have the ag exemption. And your future plan for cows will also keep that for you.
Not only that, your own sales tax exemption for hay production doesn’t even require you to report your sales (if any) so log onto the state website and apply for that.
Don’t jump in over your head buying tractors and haying equipment Until you get settled in and see what the current hay operator uses and recommends.
There are plenty of tractors with FELs on the market, be patient, you’ll find what you need. When I was looking I had my choice of 3 M4700s in the Austin area all for less than $20K, low time, with FELs, and one with a grapple. Manor area is a good locale to start looking.
It’s easier to buy too small than too big. I’d suggest you look at 50HP and up, and you might get by with only one tractor, leaving you some room for implements and that zero-turn mower you’re thinking about.
Congrats on your new “digs”.
Not only that, your own sales tax exemption for hay production doesn’t even require you to report your sales (if any) so log onto the state website and apply for that.
Don’t jump in over your head buying tractors and haying equipment Until you get settled in and see what the current hay operator uses and recommends.
There are plenty of tractors with FELs on the market, be patient, you’ll find what you need. When I was looking I had my choice of 3 M4700s in the Austin area all for less than $20K, low time, with FELs, and one with a grapple. Manor area is a good locale to start looking.
It’s easier to buy too small than too big. I’d suggest you look at 50HP and up, and you might get by with only one tractor, leaving you some room for implements and that zero-turn mower you’re thinking about.
Congrats on your new “digs”.