Snowblower Dryer and Polebarn Heater?

[sheepfarmer]

Spent some quality time out in the shop with the tractors swapping implements around in case it snows, and thinking about the various options suggested. I cheaped out when building this new barn when it came to putting in insulation, there is a coating on the inside of the metal roof to inhibit dripping, but nothing else. The ceiling is really high to accomodate a tall horsetrailer. There are 3 overhead doors so wall and ceiling spots for mounting a radiant heater or hard mounting any heater close to the tractor are hard to come by. There is screened off ventilation at the soffitt level, and so I think heating the whole thing is impractical.

Priced some of the electric fans for 240V circuits and a 25 ft welding type extension cord, and you're right, not cheap. Last winter I noticed it dried off by itself after a while, so maybe patience.

 

[Tooljunkie]

A framework and some insulated tarps would give you some gain for heating.

Thinking outside of the box for a moment, there are waterproof heating pads used as engine heaters. One on each side,glued to the ouside of where the buildup is worst. 1000 watts or less between a couple stick on heaters may do the trick. Bonus is throw a blanket over the blower to retain heat.not hot enough to light anything up.

I would have suggested a couple magnetic heaters, but i dont know how water resistant they are. They would get hot enough to burn paint i think.the magnetic heater i have is awesome to warm up the kubota, maybe an hour is plenty to warm it enough to start.300 watts i think.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Similar to this.

 

[Dave_eng]

Spent some quality time out in the shop with the tractors swapping implements around in case it snows, and thinking about the various options suggested. I cheaped out when building this new barn when it came to putting in insulation, there is a coating on the inside of the metal roof to inhibit dripping, but nothing else. It is really high to accomodate a tall horsetrailer. There are 3 overhead doors

After reading CHIM's post, i started to think his suggestion may have some merit. That of using hot water to clear your blower.

Having an outside frost free wall hydrant as they are called with both hot and cold water.

Moen used to make them and I put in three for my family members but then Moen dropped the product.

The hot water is great for washing mud off boots or off dogs before going inside during cold weather.

This company's product is well known.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/like/201776225924?chn=ps&dispItem=1

With the hot water you are more dislodging the ice and snow rather than trying to melt it. And you do it outside where the mess remains and then put the machinery away. In this way, far less energy is required to have a clear blower.

Dave M7040

 

[sheepfarmer]

Dave, how does this thing heat the water? I have long wanted hot water in the barn...unfortunately the water line ends at a frost free hydrant under the old wooden barn (two level bank barn) so adding a line to the outside would require some digging. But it sure would be handy I fill the water buckets with a short piece of hose and then drain it so it doesn't freeze.

TJ I am glad to know about the waterproof heating pads, they too would have multiple uses.

Thank you!

 

[Grouse Feathers]

I am surprised you have a problem with your snowblower icing up. Although I have a heated garage the tractor stays in the old unheated garage. I usually spend a few minutes clearing the snow out of the blower and put the tractor away and have never had a problem. Luckily the newer BX5455 snowblowers have all gear drive and no chains drives to collect snow and freeze up. Thinking about this thread one idea I have come up with to try this year is to blow the loose snow off the snowblower and tractor with the leaf blower. It may not move all the wet or packed snow, but should get the loose snow out of the nooks and crannies that eventually contributes to the ice on and around the tractor. I also park the tractor in the heated garage in front of the radiant heater for a couple of hours when ever I want to clear the ice and packed snow. Getting rid of the accumulated ice and snow sure makes any winter maintenance easier. If you don't have another heated building you can use once in a while to clear the ice, maybe the hot water option especially on a warmer day would be the best solution.

 

[Dave_eng]

Dave, how does this thing heat the water? I have long wanted hot water in the barn...unfortunately the water line ends at a frost free hydrant under the old wooden barn (two level bank barn) so adding a line to the outside would require some digging. But it sure would be handy I fill the water buckets with a short piece of hose and then drain it so it doesn't freeze.

TJ I am glad to know about the waterproof heating pads, they too would have multiple uses.

Thank you!

The hot and cold hall hydrant is just taking hot water from your existing domestic system and making it available year round.

So if you have an electric hot water tank or a propane hot water tank this would be where your wall hydrant gets its hot water. The wall hydrant would be on the side of your heated home.

Moving beyond that issue, there are a number of products designed to give people year round access to water.

The first is an electrically heated garden hose. Only 25 feet long but will not freeze.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PIRIT-5-8-in-Dia-x-25-ft-Heated-Hose-PWL-03-25/303353663

In many areas of North America the ground rock is at the surface or very close to the surface so running a water line or sewer line in a deep enough trench to be below the frost line is not possible.

In these cases electrically heated water and sewer lines are used.

Companies like this one make a wide variety of products to keep water flowing in freezing conditions.

https://heatline.com/

There are products for new installations where the water pipe, insulation jacket and heating cable come as a complete product.

For existing water lines there are products where you feed an electric heating cable inside your existing pipe to prevent it from freezing.

Look their products over, give more thought as to which needs you would like to meet and I would be please to dig into this further for you.

Dave

 

[D2Cat]

Might try one of these. They get hot quick. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dual-Tem...rovement-Contractors-Removing-Paint/871330709

 

[torch]

Or, just spray the snowblower with a non-stick coating (eg: SnoShield or Dupont Teflon Snow and Ice Repellant) periodically.

 

[chim]

I use the regular cold water hose hydrant - not hot water. As someone mentioned I don't try to melt the whole iceberg. Removal is in chunks and not a total melt. It works best to get the water on the steel parts, and where you can, between the ice and the steel. That brings the temp pf the steel up enough to have it release the ice.

The weather determines how much of a problem the buildup is. If it's good and cold I can go for hours with no trouble. I had one storm that dumped wet snow and then the cold winds kicked in. There was way too much jumping in and out of the cab as the dense snow froze to the steel. The auger looked more like a white cylinder. Within an hour or so the temp dropped significantly and the problem went away.

ETA: Water isn't the only way to clear the blower. When away from home or if the clog isn't bad I have an old wooden baseball bat that I sliced into a scraper that rides behind the seat. It's about 1-1/4" thick cut from the middle of the bat. The end is cut at a 45 for scraping and because it's wood I can bang on the blower to knock things loose.

 

[sheepfarmer]

This thread has provided a bunch of good ideas, some I have tried and can vouch for, eg the sprays like silicon or teflon. I haven't had trouble with the front mount snowblower on the B2650, but then we didn't have much of a winter last year. I am kind of a single trial learner and it was the snowblower on the old Ingersoll that caused trouble if I did a sloppy job of cleaning it up before putting it away, so I expected same on the B. The cleaning routine involved a broom and a piece of wood (liked the sectioned bat idea ) but that routine took 10 or 15 minutes, and that was what I wanted to shorten. Talk about lazy

At my house hauling a hose out,using it, then draining it would be something I'd save for emergencies, the frost free hydrants are not conveniently located. However I might invest in one of those heated hoses simply because the hose I currently use to fill horse water buckets just burst a couple days ago, and I need another short one.

A portable plug in heater also could have multiple uses if I wanted to work out there for a few minutes too. So we'll see which experiment I try. Investing in some warmer coveralls might improve my attitude . Or becoming a snowbird...

Anyway the two tractors are as ready as possible for snow, it's just me that's not. But then I still have fall cleanup chores to finish.

 

[torch]

Anyway the two tractors are as ready as possible for snow, it's just me that's not.

+2 lol

(Same can be said every year)

 

[conropl]

This thread has provided a bunch of good ideas, some I have tried and can vouch for, eg the sprays like silicon or teflon. I haven't had trouble with the front mount snowblower on the B2650, but then we didn't have much of a winter last year. I am kind of a single trial learner and it was the snowblower on the old Ingersoll that caused trouble if I did a sloppy job of cleaning it up before putting it away, so I expected same on the B. The cleaning routine involved a broom and a piece of wood (liked the sectioned bat idea ) but that routine took 10 or 15 minutes, and that was what I wanted to shorten. Talk about lazy

I am a fellow Michigander (but from the shores of Lake Michigan). I also had an Ingersoll and it would freeze up when it would sit after use. The shoot would freeze up; and if water dripped in under the hood, then the throttle or choke cable would often freeze up. What I started doing after use was to wipe the hood and let it idle while I did a little shoveling around the door. The engine heat would dry the hood, and I never had a throttle or choke cable freeze again. The other thing was to keep a squirt bottle of straight glycol on hand, and after shutting down the motor, I would shoot glycol around the shoot and rotation mechanism. This not only help keep it lubricated, but it would never freeze no mater how cold it got. Worked every time.

Then I got a B2320 and just continued the same procedures with no problem through worse winters. In fact, with the hydraulic shoot rotation it is less likely to be a problem, but I figured it could not hurt and the lubrication of the straight glycol helped. So a little engine warmth and a shot of glycol around your shoot of your B should do the trick. Word of warning is probably prudent though - that is, if you have cats or dogs that my lick the glycol off the snow blower, then you may not want to do that.

I doubt you are going to have a problem with your B. I never did over the years I used mine.

This year I have a L3560. It will be interesting to see how that goes this year.



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[sheepfarmer]

Conropl you guys have had plenty of lake effect snow the last two weeks, how's the 3560 doing?

I have not quite stalled on this project, I called the electrician that wired my pole barn, and told him about the project, and he thought the best thing to do was pull more wires through from a panel in the adjacent building, and put in a couple of outlets of the appropriate sort to reduce cord length to say 25 feet, and then make the appropriate cable and attach directly to heater. Made sense. I asked for recommendations on heaters and the one he first suggested was a Dayton, a mere $939 I have asked for an estimate for installing 2 240V plugs, and he hasn't got back to me. I was thinking a much smaller heater, maybe like a deWalt dxh 1000ts or dxh 330, $549 and$205, but I am thinking this project has gotten way out of hand. In the meantime the tractors are starting right up and I am using a broom to clean off the snowblower. As everyone knows it has been bloody awful cold, but survivable.

If I absolutely didn't want a flammable fueled heater that produced carbon monoxide, that would be the cheapest way to go. But I'd have to watch it all the time and open the door.

I have another question, I am drowning in specs for heaters and plugs, and I don't understand the pros and cons of 208, 220, 240, 480, single phase, 3 phase, etcetc. Before I totally give up on spot heating parts of this barn it would be good if I understood why or how they get so many out of one line voltage.

I could justify adding say 240V plugs to the barn if they would have other uses. But I can't guess at what they might be for stuff I don't have yet. Any suggestions? For future owners?

 

[boz1989]

It depends how heavy the wire is, but the first things that come to mind is a welder, big air compressor.

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[torch]

I don't understand the pros and cons of 208, 220, 240, 480, single phase, 3 phase, etc etc. Before I totally give up on spot heating parts of this barn it would be good if I understood why or how they get so many out of one line voltage.

3 phase power is generally limited to industrial supply, but you might see it on a farm. There's 3 power legs, 120° apart instead of the 2 @ 180° apart found in residential supply. (it's actually even more complicated than that -- there's "Delta" and "Wye" configurations).

240V is obtained between a single leg of three-phase power and neutral.
208V three phase is obtained between two legs of three-phase power.

Unless you pay the utility to bring in all 3 phases from the pole, you have 240v split-phase (sometimes called single-phase). You won't need 3-phase power unless you are trying to power some industrial motors, like surplus machine tools or some really HD welding equipment.

All line voltages are nominal, and can vary throughout the day depending on system load, distance, etc. So "240 volt" may wander from 230v to 240v. Motors have a "power factor" rating; a measure of how much fluctuation they can tolerate. If you supply them with too high a voltage, they will burn out quickly. If you supply them with too low a voltage, they will burn out slowly.

A motor rated 220v, with an adequate power factor, can safely be supplied with either 208v or 240v -- although with less tolerance for line voltage fluctuation. That is to say, a 240v motor fed with 240v will be more tolerant than a 220v motor to high line voltage and a 208v motor fed with 208v will be more tolerant than a 220v motor to low line voltage.

480v and 600v are heavy industrial/commercial 3-phase supply voltages. Higher voltages are obviously more dangerous, but since power = voltage x amperage, smaller conductors can be used to supply the required power. So you might see 600v coming into a retail mall, before on-site transformers reduce it to end-use voltages.

Clear as mud?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Torch thank you, it is getting clearer. I don't know what has been supplied to that panel from the power pole. The big heater they first suggested is 3 phase 240, and the smaller cheaper ones that I had been thinking of are single phase 240. My original notion of putting in one kind of line and using adapter plugs for other applications is unlikely to work.

There is one plug set up for welding, and best to leave that alone.

 

[torch]

I don't know what has been supplied to that panel from the power pole.

2 main breakers or fuses in the panel: regular residential split (single) phase power.

3 main breakers or fuses in the panel: 3-phase power.

 

[conropl]

Conropl you guys have had plenty of lake effect snow the last two weeks, how's the 3560 doing?

I think it snowed everyday since the week before Christmas. So we have had a fare amount (this season is pushing close to 80"... not like the U.P., but respectable amount for December). I picked up a very slightly used L4479 blower with the new 4 bar linkage mount to lift it, and it has worked great. 74" wide blower and it is very heavy duty compared to my blower for my B-Series tractor. It is big and heavy and throws the snow a long ways. Even goes through the packed snow bank pretty easily. Broken shear bolts seems to be a thing of the past... I threw a 6" diameter field stone without issue; and the first couple of times using it before ground froze, it threw a lot of sod, dirt, and stones. The bad side is, this thing with the frame is huge and heavy. It is also a pain to install and remove... part because it needs to be set up better (adjusted) and my draw bar is a little fat (Draw bar holds up the back end of the frame). All of which I am sure I can fix, but I need to have the time and inclination to do it (just to cold).

As for power for you heater... stick with 110V or 220V single phase. I doubt you have 3 phase in the barn; but even if you do, it is cheaper to use single phase. If I had the choice between 110V or 220V, then I would go with the 220V option... it would cut your current in half and would probably be less of a fire hazard as a result (less current, less generated heat in wires, smaller breaker size, smaller wire required because of lower current, etc.).

If you do not have 3-Phase power in your barn, then the guy you were talking to was just puffing up his chest and blowing hot air to show off. Running 3-Phase out to your barn is pricey, and you will seldom see it outside of industrial uses around here (especially since you can run 3 phase equipment with single phase and a cheap frequency drive now days).

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I might have missed it, but why not a simple forced air Propane heater, or a diesel / kerosene model?

I have one and can thaw off snowblower or bobcat in nothing flat.

I would do propane if it's in an enclosed space as it cleaner and less carbon monoxide issues.

Here is just a couple examples:

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...forced-air-propane-heater-38000-btu?a=1835682

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Gl...Air-LP-Gas-Portable-Heater-LPFA125H/203633490