Snowblower Dryer and Polebarn Heater?

[sheepfarmer]

Last week the terms "polar" and "vortex" were used in the same paragraph by the weather gurus, bringing back memories of the 2013-14 winter. Lots of snow and spells of bitter cold.

One of the chores I don't like is getting the packed in snow out of the corners of the snowblower before putting it away, but the consequences of not doing it are having the drive chain etc freeze into a block of ice. Silicon spray helps but it is still a chore usually right when I've had enough fun for one day and the sun is setting.

So I have the fantasy of getting an electric heater with a strong fan, putting it on a timer for a couple of hours, and setting it in front of the snow blower and drying out the blower and all the parts of the tractor, radiator etc that get a lot of snow inside.

Anyone try this?

I have 30 amp 110 wall outlets, and one 50amp 240 outlet, and there seem to be a lot of choices in terms of heaters and extension cords and timers. Suggestions in terms of heaters especially would be helpful. The barn has a concrete floor, and is not insulated, so not expecting to heat it, just supply directed heat maybe to also warm up the tractor if needed too.

NOTE added later: if you wade through this thread there is a lot of good information in it. I started out pretty clueless, but points raised by various folks were really good. Some advice I could take, and some I think I will wish I took....it is a continuing saga.

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Radiant heaters, heat objects not the air so they would work well for your application. I installed a large propane radiant heater in my garage two years ago and maintain my well insulated garage at 50F all winter. When the garage door opens I don't lose as much heat as I would with a convection unit heater. A propane radiant heater would probably be cheaper to operate, but an electric radiant heater would probably be cheaper to install. Depends on how much you plan to use the heater and if you have propane available in the pole barn.

 

[Tughill Tom]

I would go with a salamander type heater, burns diesel, heat can be directed exactly where you need it.
I have one and use it when working on my snowmobile club’s Pisten Bully groomers in mid winter with no barn or garage. Just blow the hot air under the machine and it melts the ice and snow.

 

[rjcorazza]

For specifically heating the implement a radiant heater is much more efficient, as GrouseFeathers states. I used to heat my garage with a kerosene salamander, which will also dethaw the blower and cutting edges, but in my old age don't want to mess with it any longer.
I can't recommend defeating saftey switches, but I also rigged a radiant heater to work laying on its side to heat the hst case. Practically 100% of the heat is transferred to the case. There is "meltable" stuff under there, so caution is indicated!

 

[skeets]

sheepfarmer, this might work for what you have in mind put it in front of the blower facing where you want the heat to go, they are not real expensive and fairly cheap to run, though you will have to remember to go and turn it off after the ice melts out. And you could use it in the lambing barn if need be too.

https://youtu.be/srLyQFoZMMY?t=8

 

[Wbk]

Whatever heater you decide to go with is your choice but remember that there will be ice that forms when the water hits the cold floor and it's very hard to remove. That's the problem i had with snowmobiles thawing out just from they're own engine heat.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks guys, I want to go with electric since with luck it will always be there and I like the idea of being able to set a timer to shut it off so I don't have to go back out there since it is pretty far. I hadn't thought about radiant though.

 

[skeets]

OK lectric it is,, first they are not cheap to buy nor to run if you compaire them to gas...
So looking for what I think you might be looking at, this might be a fair bet,, you did say you had 220 into the barn I think. And being portable you can move it about

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200653706_200653706

 

[Grouse Feathers]

If you are looking at a permanent mount heater, this line of radiant heater looks good. This one is mislabeled in their ad at 4.8 kw actually it is 3.2 kw, they also have a 4.8 kw unit: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200446411_200446411
The 3.2 kw heater would easily heat the snowblower and cost about $.30 per hour to operate. The 5 kw heater heat a larger area maybe the snowblower plus the tractor and cost about $.50 cents per hour.

If your pole barn is tight and you start melting and drying up the snow you may need to add some ventilation to get the moisture out of your the barn.

 

[sagor]

Thanks guys, I want to go with electric since with luck it will always be there and I like the idea of being able to set a timer to shut it off so I don't have to go back out there since it is pretty far. I hadn't thought about radiant though.

I use a shed for heating when I need to work on the tractor (tractor normally in regular garage). I use two 2kW heaters with fans, on opposing walls, with a regular electrical thermostat. These are cheap local hardware store type of heaters. What I did was install a remote contactor (relay) that I can turn on and off from the house, using 24V and heavy phone wiring from house to shed. A simple toggle switch, which I turn on for 2 hours, is enough to heat the small (9x16) insulated shed. In the shed, I have a remote/local switch to allow me to adjust the temps or whatever while I'm in the shed. Only issue is, forgetting that I turned on the heater and leaving it on for days - big electric bill for that... One could put an indicator light on the outside (light bulb) that is wired to one leg of the 240V that comes on when the contactor is engaged.

 

[bxray]

You will also want to stay away from extention cords.
They do not mix with high watage heaters.
Does your 30a 120v have a special plug, and correct wiring?
I have seen a 30amp breaker on a 20a wire with a 15a outlet.
#10 wire, should be a nema -L5-30a

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Legrand...Amp-125-Volt-Locking-Plug-L530PCCV3/100166915

You will need a heavy duty timer or relay control box for both 120/240v.

Ray

 

[sheepfarmer]

Ray, I was wondering if I used the 220 circuit, it was set up with a special plug and I think rated for 50 amps, and got a welding extension cord, if a 220 type heater would be ok? The electrician set up one outlet about half way between the two tractors suitable for welding when he was wiring the pole barn. Sort of a just in case kind of thing.

The 30 amp wall outlets are the regular kind.

 

[bxray]

If the cord is rated at 50amp.
The cost of the cord will be as much if not more than running the wires to where you want it. #6/2

About a 9kW heater max for that circuit.
But if it is smaller than it would be ok.

 

[torch]

This entire thread brings back memories of a particular fire I attended years ago.

A certain world champion figure skater left his Porche convertible outside in a sudden downpour. He parked it in the garage and set up a leaf blower to circulate air to try and dry the sodden carpet out. Left unattended in the attached garage, it somehow ignited the contents (probably the exhaust) and he lost his house.

Take care and think "how can this go wrong?" when jury rigging things for unattended uses.

 

[Dave_eng]

Last week the terms "polar" and "vortex" were used in the same paragraph by the weather gurus, bringing back memories of the 2013-14 winter. Lots of snow and spells of bitter cold.

One of the chores I don't like is getting the packed in snow out of the corners of the snowblower before putting it away, but the consequences of not doing it are having the drive chain etc freeze into a block of ice. Silicon spray helps but it is still a chore usually right when I've had enough fun for one day and the sun is setting.

So I have the fantasy of getting an electric heater with a strong fan, putting it on a timer for a couple of hours, and setting it in front of the snow blower and drying out the blower and all the parts of the tractor, radiator etc that get a lot of snow inside.

Anyone try this?

I have 30 amp 110 wall outlets, and one 50amp 220 outlet, and there seem to be a lot of choices in terms of heaters and extension cords and timers. Suggestions in terms of heaters especially would be helpful. The barn has a concrete floor, and is not insulated, so not expecting to heat it, just supply directed heat maybe to also warm up the tractor if needed too.

Your question brought back some memories, first of high school physics and latent heat of fusion, then attempts by several large Canadian cities to dispose of snow by melting it.

The amount of energy to change 1 lb of ice or snow into water at the same temperature of 32 F is 144 times greater than raising or lowering the same 1 lb of material say from 32 F to 33 F.

This is where the theory is described:

Heat of Fusion (Latent Heat): The amount of heat required to change one pound of a given substance from solid to liquid state without change in temperature is termed the heat of fusion.

It requires 144 Btu to change one pound of ice at 32°F to one pound of water at 32°F, the heat of fusion of ice being 144 Btu per pound.

Large Canadian cities faced with inadequate snow dumps, have tried snow melting equipment. After short trials, these experiments are abandoned. Usually for the same two reasons. Too slow and too expensive to operate.

I have tried using the super propane flame thrower to melt ice and frozen snow pockets from my blower. It is a slow process and soon I too give up.

When a short spell of milder weather hits, I take advantage of it to clear the snow and ice from my blower.

Your 50 amp 220 volt circuit theoretically would provide about 11 kw of heat or power two electric construction heaters of around 4,800 watts or 16,377 BTU's x 2 =32,700 BTU's
Unless you are in an insulated enclosure, which you say you are not, I don't think you will affect the temperature around your blower sufficiently to make a difference.

I have an 80,000 btu propane heater in my insulated shop, which is not large, and when I bring my tractor and blower in to work on either, there is not a lot of ice and snow which comes off in the two or three hours I am working.

Electrical energy is expensive in most places. Usually 15 to 20 cents per KW hour. Your 11 KW of electric heat will be costing you up to $2.20 per hour to operate it.

Others may see your situation differently than I have....


Dave M7040

 

[bxray]

That is why I do not think extention cords would be a good idea.
You will also want to have a themostat to limit heat.
So can you mount somthing on a wall and pull into it?

 

[sheepfarmer]

This entire thread brings back memories of a particular fire I attended years ago.

A certain world champion figure skater left his Porche convertible outside in a sudden downpour. He parked it in the garage and set up a leaf blower to circulate air to try and dry the sodden carpet out. Left unattended in the attached garage, it somehow ignited the contents (probably the exhaust) and he lost his house.

Take care and think "how can this go wrong?" when jury rigging things for unattended uses.

Yes, the consequences of making a mistake would be to lose pretty much everything that matters to me, the horses and the tractors. The wooden hay barn is attached to the metal pole barn on one side. I'll talk to the electricians about what could be used safely and if more wiring is needed for at least attended use. I guess it was a fantasy, I don't leave
heaters on in the house when not inside, so this would be worse. Thanks everyone

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Sheepfarmer
Would it be possible to enclose and insulate the area around the tractor. Before I added heat to my insulated garage, the temperature in the garage remained around 32F during the winter. Even when it would go down to -20F outside the temperature inside the garage would remain around 32F and recover fairly quick after opening the garage door. The heat comes up through the ground and it only takes a small amount of additional heat to hold the garage at 50F. If I am working on the vehicles or tractor I can easily raise the temperature to 65F. I am heating the garage and work shop 50'x28' total to 50F when not occupied and using maybe 200 gallons of propane a winter.

 

[chim]

Before storing my tractor (in its unheated shed), I use a garden hose to clear the blower. It only takes minutes. When I clear snow, I open a spot on the grass where I can park the tractor so the water doesn't accumulate and freeze on the paving.

I've also used this method when it got clogged while trying to blow very wet snow. Before going back at it I run the blower "dry" for a couple minutes so it isn't warm enough to encourage the snow to stick to it.

I don't know if coming from a warm storage shed into the snow would make snow stick to the blower or not.

 

[78Vette]

I don't know if coming from a warm storage shed into the snow would make snow stick to the blower or not.

I would say yes, but I keep my blower in my heated 50x30 shop/garage, and move it outside to warm up for 5 minutes. Enough time for the metal to get cold and have no major snow sticking, unless it's slushy. I park it over the floor drain when i move it back inside.