Smoothing Out 3pt Hitch--????

[Wxman]

The situation: MX4700HST, 50 hrs, 2 rear remotes, no draft, all hydraulics work well and smoothly except--3pt is very jumpy or jerky if you attempt to make small movements or slow, continuous movements. I would like to improve or fix this 'feature'. RPMs, fluid warm/cold, amount of weight on hitch, etc... doesn't fix. (Position control valve is YR908-00104)

Yes it is under warranty, yes I have talked with dealer. Dealer went from, I haven't heard of that issue on that tractor, we need to get that fixed for you, let me talk with tech support--to they all do that, it is way it's designed, economy tractor not premium valve...after talking to Mama Kubota.
Dealer did think I could fix the problem by replacing the position control valve with one from a previous model of 'premium' tractor (M5010 or 5110 I think he said). Anyway the story is this valve upgrade includes some kind of internal accumulator the current valve does not. (Offered valve at cost if I wanted to do work myself.) OK, if my complaint is because I didn't buy an option I really wanted I will spend on the new valve, but I have read of others getting similar problems resolved with adjustments rather than replacements (valve is apparently shared with some of the infamous L tractors with jerky hitches). I am not yet convinced I need an upgraded valve because I haven't seen much evidence this is a rampant condition with this tractor. This leads me to believe some kind of adjustment with the valve may improve/fix my complaint.
Wow, this got long. sorry

So, now the questions. Does anyone have any insight into the adjustment? Has this been accomplished with adjustments to the valve spool joint 1 and/or poppet 2 set screw as shown in the attachment (something I would try)? Or, does it require actual disassembling of the valve and shimming, replacing springs, etc...(something I probably wouldn't try)?

If accomplished with adjustments to valve spool joint and/or poppet 2 set screw: Is there a tech procedure or preferred direction or order in which to start making movements? A preferred dimension to 'fudge' on first in order to get this hitch smoothed out?

Inputs appreciated. Thanks
Wxman

 

[rschlink]

My L3800 has the same described problem. Tractor was purchased new in March of 2011. I am still waiting for Kubota to come out with a fix, or it will be going back to the dealer before the warranty runs out.

 

[Burt]

Hello,

Even though I am a newbie here, I saw the you tube video about the jumpy 3 point hitch prior to purchasing our L3700SU. It turns out that it is a tube on ours that is just to the side of the brake. That tube, if it has an air leak, will cause the 3 point to jump or bounce.

I learned this from a dealer mechanic who pointed it out to me.

We haven't had the problem (yet), but for those who do, that tube is likely the culprit. It seems to be placed in an area where it could be damaged by a boot or kicked inadvertently.

In other news, I love this tractor. It does way more than I thought it would, runs perfectly and makes our life a lot easier.

I hope this will put some minds at ease.

Burt

 

[Burt]

The situation: MX4700HST, 50 hrs, 2 rear remotes, no draft, all hydraulics work well and smoothly except--3pt is very jumpy or jerky if you attempt to make small movements or slow, continuous movements. I would like to improve or fix this 'feature'. RPMs, fluid warm/cold, amount of weight on hitch, etc... doesn't fix. (Position control valve is YR908-00104)

Yes it is under warranty, yes I have talked with dealer. Dealer went from, I haven't heard of that issue on that tractor, we need to get that fixed for you, let me talk with tech support--to they all do that, it is way it's designed, economy tractor not premium valve...after talking to Mama Kubota.
Dealer did think I could fix the problem by replacing the position control valve with one from a previous model of 'premium' tractor (M5010 or 5110 I think he said). Anyway the story is this valve upgrade includes some kind of internal accumulator the current valve does not. (Offered valve at cost if I wanted to do work myself.) OK, if my complaint is because I didn't buy an option I really wanted I will spend on the new valve, but I have read of others getting similar problems resolved with adjustments rather than replacements (valve is apparently shared with some of the infamous L tractors with jerky hitches). I am not yet convinced I need an upgraded valve because I haven't seen much evidence this is a rampant condition with this tractor. This leads me to believe some kind of adjustment with the valve may improve/fix my complaint.
Wow, this got long. sorry

So, now the questions. Does anyone have any insight into the adjustment? Has this been accomplished with adjustments to the valve spool joint 1 and/or poppet 2 set screw as shown in the attachment (something I would try)? Or, does it require actual disassembling of the valve and shimming, replacing springs, etc...(something I probably wouldn't try)?

If accomplished with adjustments to valve spool joint and/or poppet 2 set screw: Is there a tech procedure or preferred direction or order in which to start making movements? A preferred dimension to 'fudge' on first in order to get this hitch smoothed out?

Inputs appreciated. Thanks
Wxman

More follow up on the jumpy 3 point...
After talking with a dealer and getting no responses, a factory survey came by my mail and wanted my opinion of both the tractor and the dealer. So, I called the dealer back, mentioned this to them and also that I would like to have both the phone number and the e-mail of the factory representative. Within 1/2 hour, I had a call notifying me that yes, the factory has noticed some problems with the valves on some of these tractors and that there were 2 valves at the time. A regular one and a super one. If I were to get the tractor to the dealer, I had a 2 week grace period past warranty (which I am in now) and they would look at it, test it and if necessary, replace the faulty valve.

Upon delivering the tractor (about 65 miles away), I was also informed now that there were about 4 valves that could go into this tractor and there were no promises. So, I said that at least now, it is in the record books and that this is not a normal operation of a 3 point lift on a tractor. (I had demonstrated the jumpy 3 point to them on their premises by now). I said that I believe it is and could be a safety issue as we used this tractor in some tight quarters next to a building and were adjusting a box blade right next to a rock wall to dig out and noticed how dangerous it was. I also mentioned that this is not typical of good Japanese engineering to let something like this go without at least recognizing it and providing a fix for it.

The jury is still out here and I'll inform this forum of the results. If it be positive, I will exuberate verbosity of great confidence in the survey I have pending here. If not, I will also fill out the survey in another fashion along with a letter and, of course, inform all of you the results be they positive or negative.

Now, my take on this having studied the Uniform Commercial Code at great length which codifies transactions of a nature like this across our entire USA is this: This tractor meets the guidelines of "fitness for purpose" albeit borderline. Plus, the jumpy 3-point does raise the issue of safety and therefore, it borders upon unfit for purpose due to that concern. The defect is latent and at this time, it is unknown if it will progress or stay the same.

It is my sincere hope and desire that Kubota will develop a program to remedy this potentially serious issue in the near future. To be continued...

Burt (L3700SU)

 

[Bluegill]

To the OP; Never heard of this problem with the MX series. Usually just the basic L series (but not all). And never with the GL series. There are vids on youtube and info on other forums, fixes and what not.

Burt, sounds like you got the attention of the right folks and yours will be fixed.

My L3800 is not so bad and only noticed when raised VERY SLOWLY. In normal operation it is not noticeable at all. Raised slowly it moves in 1/4" or less increments, some of the bad ones jump in 1'' increments, bouncing the implement violently.

I love the L3800 and use it almost daily. It had surpassed all my expectations!

I do think the jerky hitch thing has been blow out of proportion, especially on another forum. There is a problem, but not a huge problem and I do hope Kubota fixes it.

 

[Burt]

Bluegill:

Well, after no responses and no follow up, I got frustrated. The paper trail did not exist either. Hoping wasn't going to get it done. Neither would wishing but after nearly pushing over a rock retaining wall with the jumpy 3 point and a box blade (all due to the jump), I decided that I would pursue a solution. My wife was in the ditch with me and if we weren't quick, we would be talking about another type of answer or solution here.

Yet, I can understand Kubota's reticence to act. These kind of solutions require time/money to fix. However, reputations are also important and this one seems to have slipped out the gate and is starting to buck. As I mentioned in the earlier response, this is very atypical of Japanese engineering.

Like you, I love the tractor and what it can do but decided to pursue solutions while it was under warranty, not wait for unexpected happy contact from a dealer saying they just heard about it, would come over, fix it, prepare me a meal and push a hammock for me while I waited.

Jury's out right now.

Burt

 

[Burt]

Jumpy 3 point...the rest of the story: L3700SU

My previous posts detail a progression of discovery and requests regarding the the fact we had a jumpy 3 point. It ended up with calls to the dealer which informed me that I was almost out of warranty. I then asked to talk with the factory rep. They told me that I could not do that. Then I mentioned this survey I have from Kubota which I hadn't filled out yet and that if I couldn't talk with the rep, then have him call me or e-mail me.

Within half an hour, I was informed that yes, they had just talked with the factory rep said were informed that some of those models do have a jumpy 3 point due to a valve problem of some kind. I should bring it in so they could investigate. Which I did. Their investigation revealed, guess what? A jumpy 3 point! Part had to be ordered. 2 weeks later, part came in, tractor fixed.

Here's the numbers: Old valve is YR908 "AO119" on the casting NO9Y25.

New valve part number YR908-00105

I'm not sure what the number is behind the last YR908 means unless it is a sequential serial number.

Bottom line is that the tractor 3 point is not as jumpy now although it will increment in small moves depending upon where you put the up/down knob (fast or slow). The rest of it is that the tractor does not make as many "funny noises" as before which to me sounded like straining noises.

I used it today with a box blade successfully to grade out a new gravel road and it did well and was very controllable. Unlike before, it made large jumps and in our opinion, was somewhat dangerous and a safety issue. It does help to "feather" the handle as you go either up or down with the 3 point. My thinking is that feathering allows the hydraulics time to catch up to the request being made of it. Before the new valve was in, small moves and feathering were not possible due to the jumps.

All in all, it still is not perfectly smooth on the uptake and very smooth on the down. It is however, much better.

If you want results, you have to pursue them again and again to get them but it will happen if you persist.

I hope that our experience will encourage some of you still under warranty that are being timid or not making a claim on this issue.

Burt

 

[MEA]

Re: Smoothing Out 3pt Hitch--?? UPDATE!!!

I have been watching these posts and responses for months. I also have a "New" 2012 l3800 that had the jerky hitch problem. The tracter was 1 week old when I reported the issue to the dealer. First three responses were" Normal operation for an entry L series." BUT my dealer was very willing to continue to work with me on a solution. Kubota Rep and mechanic came from Corp. to install a newly designed valve used to correct this issue. The rep said he was in CA for the corp meeting a few weeks ago and this was the first topic that was presented regarding these tractors. They installed the valve last night and called me down to see it in operation before they return the tractor to me. Both the rep and mechanic from Corp. were wonderful and explained they( Corp Kubota ) KNOWS about this issue and have been waiting for KUBOTA to approve fixing these in the field.

The operation is NOT perfectly smooth but almost perfect. Nothing like it was before, and I have had 3 other B series tractors prior that were perfectly smooth. This is almost perfect.

Just wanted to let everyone know this is a fixable problem through KUBOTA. Well alomost 100% fixable at this point. ( My opinon only. )

 

[Burt]

Re: Smoothing Out 3pt Hitch--?? UPDATE!!!

I have been watching these posts and responses for months. I also have a "New" 2012 l3800 that had the jerky hitch problem. The tracter was 1 week old when I reported the issue to the dealer. First three responses were" Normal operation for an entry L series." BUT my dealer was very willing to continue to work with me on a solution. Kubota Rep and mechanic came from Corp. to install a newly designed valve used to correct this issue. The rep said he was in CA for the corp meeting a few weeks ago and this was the first topic that was presented regarding these tractors. They installed the valve last night and called me down to see it in operation before they return the tractor to me. Both the rep and mechanic from Corp. were wonderful and explained they( Corp Kubota ) KNOWS about this issue and have been waiting for KUBOTA to approve fixing these in the field.

The operation is NOT perfectly smooth but almost perfect. Nothing like it was before, and I have had 3 other B series tractors prior that were perfectly smooth. This is almost perfect.

Just wanted to let everyone know this is a fixable problem through KUBOTA. Well alomost 100% fixable at this point. ( My opinon only. )

MEA:

Like you, I had to push buttons to get this done. While it is not a complete fix, I guess if you really want it to work smoothly, one suggestion is to put in a valve from the Grand L as a fix. Although I don't know of anyone who has done that, it does sound very logical and Kubota should at least try that as a fix in my opinion.

Many have written about this issue. Few have results and continue to complain.

As a follow up, Kubota did send out the survey which I filled out as unsatisfactory despite the somewhat palliation of the jumpy 3 point. It is still not like a normal 3 point but yet not as jumpy as before. They said that they would call me for a follow up which they never did. (Factory said that).

In my further opinion, I do believe that this is a safety defect worthy of a recall. Most guys that use this type of equipment are aware that they are inherently dangerous. Despite that, their normal operation should be safe and predictable.

Bottom line for all 3 point jumpy hitch owners, don't mess so much with the dealer but go, or try to go to the factory representative for your area, especially if under warranty.

I'd be very interested if someone did finally put a Grand L valve in one of these series tractors and the results.

Burt

 

[garyeudy]

Is the issue still open with the l3800 I have picked out the dealer options and even the trailer however the jumpy unsafe three point lift issue might be a game change

 

[Stubbyie]

Another possibility:

If it is truly to you a safety issue that you can define and explain, make a report to the Consumer Products Safety Commission.

If EVERY OWNER experiencing the problem makes a report, it starts to look statistically valid in that vast FedGovt database in the sky. Numbers get attention.

A few years ago I had a regional brand riding lawnmower that shattered the sheave atop the deck while in use. I was to the side many feet away and almost got hit by the debris.

Reported incident to CPSC and had a response within a week. Another week and I had an investigator at our place taking pictures, making measurements, taking notes.

Later correspondence indicated the incident was apparently a one-off and for that reason never resulted in safety recall. But it sure did get the attention of the manufacturer. Wouldn't say we're best buds, but I've got the phone number for the Chief Wheel in my rolodex.