small garden -- rip then till? (what's a ripper, subsoiler, middle-buster, etc?)

[BobInSD]

I have a small garden, and wondering how to use my new small tractor to help with annual prep and expansion. In the past I've tried to use a cultivator or box-blade rippers so that I could use a walk-behind tiller on new pasture and just used a shovel and a tiller on last years garden. I no longer have access to the cultivator or 1-bottom plow, but do have the use of a 3-pt tiller. My neighbors have BIG equipment that I can't use in this area.

What's a good approach for expanding into untilled pasture? For churning compost or manure into last years (or just loosening it up)? I tried to use the 3-pt tiller yesterday but didn't get much depth. I don't think the ground is frozen yet, but may be getting close.

Also, I do not know the difference (when to use) a ripper, a subsoiler, a middle buster, or a "turning plow". I kind of see the visual differences but am not sure the different purposes. It seems I could bolt a different shank on a "middle buster" and have a subsoiler/ripper, etc. If somebody could explain (or point me to a "tillage for dummies") that would be appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[85Hokie]

how big is this small garden?

I take it you are using the L5740 ? That should pull almost any 3 point device and do a good job

If never broken - I would find a way to bottom plow it at least once, this will "flip" top down and pull bottom up. Then you can "find" rocks and eliminate them. IF you have no means of "borrowing" a single bottom plow - I would look to a middle buster.

- a middle buster will dig down and make a row by bringing the bottom soil to the top on two sides, used sometimes to hill up potatoes, by pulling soil from below and placing on two sides of the row

A middle buster is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the 3 point devices too.

Your 3 point tiller is putting the cart before the horse - the soil needs to be "broken" and flipped before you can smooth it out - the tiller will be the last tool to use.

 

[Tornado]

You can really get into the weeds on all this, but I tend to look past all that and just focus on the objective: To break the ground so you can plant in it. Ive often seen people go really over the top on stuff like this, as if there is some exact science on when to use what and how to use it and when not to use this or that. Ive never had trouble in my gardens just simply breaking the ground any means necessary so I can get the seeds or seedlings into the ground. Given that, I would just use what you find works best to break the soil where you live. Here in Florida, the soil is so easy to break you can just about use anything. I use a 3 pt. disc harrow. A 3pt tiller would work well as well.

I've often seen folks say not to use a tiller, as it "turns your top soil under" but I've never noticed any impact on my gardens from tilling or not tilling. Find a method of breaking ground and go with it. Dont over think it or get into the weeds on it.

 

[BobInSD]

how big is this small garden?

I have about 1600 sq. feet blocked off with panels. Less than half of that has been used the past few years. Last year wife didn't want a garden, but later said she wanted some tomatoes, eggplant, and peppers (?) so I maybe used about 1/3 or less. I am expanding some asparagus and raspberries into part of that (so won't be tilled most years

I take it you are using the L5740 ? That should pull almost any 3 point device and do a good job

If never broken - I would find a way to bottom plow it at least once, this will "flip" top down and pull bottom up. Then you can "find" rocks and eliminate them. IF you have no means of "borrowing" a single bottom plow - I would look to a middle buster.

- a middle buster will dig down and make a ros by bringing the bottom soil to the top on two sides, used sometimes to hill up potatoes, by pulling soil from below and placing on two sides of the row

A middle buster is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the 3 point devices too.

I think there's one of these available locally. The price is reasonable, but will the 50 hp tractor twist that into knots? Soil is easy to dig (normally). Hardly any rocks and no roots out in the area I'm working in.

If I use something like this how far apart should I run the rows (prior to tilling)?

Yes, the 5740. My JD 3020 was too big to really get in there. I did try to use the scarifiers on the box blade a couple of times, but they don't stick that far below the blade.

Your 3 point tiller is putting the cart before the horse - the soil needs to be "broken" and flipped before you can smooth it out - the tiller will be the last tool to use.

I think that's what I found yesterday. The parts that were tilled this year had a layer of leaves and grass on top, and I think the tiller floated on that but still did OK. Where there was still sod didn't work well at all.

You can really get into the weeds on all this, but I tend to look past all that and just focus on the objective...I would just use what you find works best to break the soil where you live. Here in Florida, the soil is so easy to break you can just about use anything. I use a 3 pt. disc harrow. A 3pt tiller would work well as well...Dont over think it or get into the weeds on it.

Guilty as charged! I guess I was trying to get a hint as to what would work, but we all have different soils.

 

[Tornado]

Guilty as charged! I guess I was trying to get a hint as to what would work, but we all have different soils.

Is your soil really hard? Clay? Im surprised you say the 3pt tiller wont break it. Ill be honest that I dont have experience with soil that is that hard. Here in north Florida the soil is so sandy. You can take a manual post hole digger and be at 5 foot depth in literally 3 minutes. My disc harrow on my little L2501 turns my garden spot, which is a bit larger than yours, into fluffy powder. Of course the downside to my soil is it is often very nutrient poor. If the soil is as hard as you suggest here you may have to use some kind of plow on the tractor so that the tractor can pull it down into the ground and bust it up good. I guess Im confused at how hard your soil actually is. You mention using a walk behind tiller in the past, and you seem to suggest the box blade scarifiers are going in, but a 3pt tiller wont penetrate? If you have a rototiller I would do whatever it took to get that sucker penetrating. Sub Soiler, Middle Buster, Bottom plow, any of those that can penetrate would likely work. Maybe I dont know how easy I have it here lol

 

[BobInSD]

Is your soil really hard? Clay? Im surprised you say the 3pt tiller wont break it. Ill be honest that I dont have experience with soil that is that hard. Here in north Florida the soil is so sandy. You can take a manual post hole digger and be at 5 foot depth in literally 3 minutes. ...

It's very rich soil, and normally pretty easy to dig. From digging deep close by I'd expect 18 inches of rich, black, top soil on top of (light brown) almost sand. It's been pasture for at least 20 years, and probably forever, so there is some "sod" to cut through. It may be getting close to frozen (below freezing at nights, it was 45 yesterday--T-posts still go in easy, but I did need to work at putting one in on the north side of a tree yesterday, but I could see the frost there despite the warm day.)

... You mention using a walk behind tiller in the past, and you seem to suggest the box blade scarifiers are going in, but a 3pt tiller wont penetrate? If you have a rototiller I would do whatever it took to get that sucker penetrating. Sub Soiler, Middle Buster, Bottom plow, any of those that can penetrate would likely work.

Walk behind tosses me around pretty good and doesn't go real deep after many passes in the summer. I"m guessing a sod/root layer or baked crust layer (depending on if it was grass or garden the last year). That's why I"m looking at some fall tillage.

Maybe I dont know how easy I have it here lol

I used to live in Maryland, and I do not have clay like we did there -- really nice soil.

 

[NHSleddog]

I hit new gardens, old gardens, food plots etc.

If there is standing weeds/growth, I will make a couple passes with the disc harrow first. This will keep the tiller from clogging up. Then 3-4 passes with the tiller.

If it was a "last years garden", 1 pass with the tiller would do.

That whole plot with my 5' tiller doing multiple passes would only take an hour or so and you would be left with a full depth fine material finish.

 

[Creature Meadow]

I have a tater plow that I use for this application. I added about 10 feet to my sides of the garden this fall. I set the plow so it would run about a foot deep. It rolled the grass up and over pretty well, did about 320 feet.

I don't have a tiller so then I ran my disk over it several times and let it dry well. Then I took my back pack blower and blew the grass laying on top out of it, repeated disking and then blowing again.

I planted wheat over the entire garden which is lush and green now. In the spring I'll mow it close and disk in. Over the winter I add leaves to my garden for organic mater.

One word of caution when using a tiller a lot. It pounds the ground and over time makes the top very fluffy. Thus making it more difficult for water to penetrate easily. Adding compost such as leaves will help prevent this.

I believe soil test every couple of years, crop rotation, compost and keeping weeds to a minimum are couple keys to a successful garden.

Good luck.

Jay

 

[Raymo853]

Determining your soil characteristics and it's current state will be the first step. Suggest you go to your local USDA/NRCS Extension office first. Every county in SD will have one.

 

[BobInSD]

Thanks all. I should probably get the soil tested, but for now it's beautiful and black and stuff grows really well. At least a (different) third is unused (goes to grass) on any given year, and I rotate the beans around when I can remember where I had them last year.

I mainly wanted to till to cut the leaves and grass clippings in, and to expand a little. Cutting into the sod with a walk-behind tiller is a bugger.

I planted wheat over the entire garden which is lush and green now. In the spring I'll mow it close and disk in. Over the winter I add leaves to my garden for organic mater.

Is there a "winter wheat-ish option for the frozen north? It seems like I'm always racing to get the "harvest" inside the night of the first frost.

One word of caution when using a tiller a lot. It pounds the ground and over time makes the top very fluffy. Thus making it more difficult for water to penetrate easily. Adding compost such as leaves will help prevent this.


I believe soil test every couple of years, crop rotation, compost and keeping weeds to a minimum are couple keys to a successful garden.

Good luck.

Jay

I'm just now getting to where we have leaves to cut in. "Trees" other than shelter belts aren't really a thing around here. I planted 200 trees and bushes the first year I was here, so now I have leaves in the fall. Anybody know how I can plant some mountains?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[bucktail]

I don't test my soil either. If the tomatoes get blossom end rot you need more calcium. I use egg shells but pulverized lime works. You can tell if it needs nitrogen by the color of the plant leaves. If you fertilize with plant matter or a balanced fertilizer the phosphorus and potassium should be ok if the nitrogen is. I'm not sure I follow your question about the substitute for winter wheat. Winter rye will grow further North than wheat but this far North you don't always have time to get a cover crop going before the ground freezes.

 

[DarianLee]

As for understanding the different implements, I totally get your confusion. A ripper or subsoiler is used to break up hardpan or compacted soil beneath the surface, while a turning plow is designed to invert and bury vegetation or cover crops. A middle buster is typically used for making furrows or trenches. It's true that you can modify or switch shanks on some implements to serve different purposes.

If you're looking for more detailed guidance, I recommend checking out www.gardencentreshopping.co.uk. They have a great selection of gardening tools and equipment, and you might find helpful resources or guides to assist you with your tillage questions. Good luck with your garden expansion, and happy gardening!

 

[fried1765]

As for understanding the different implements, I totally get your confusion. A ripper or subsoiler is used to break up hardpan or compacted soil beneath the surface, while a turning plow is designed to invert and bury vegetation or cover crops.

A bit of additional clarification:
A "ripper" is generally described as being a frost, and/or root ripper, and is substantially more beefy than a "subsoiler".
I have both.