SLV90 2 Diesel in DEF tank

[ADC224]

New here with orange equipment. Grew up with red (MF and IH) and some blue. I bought a 2019 SLV90 2 (1182.3 hrs) that someone put diesel in the DEF tank and ran it till it stopped. They tried to fix it (so they say) and could not find what was wrong. They have let it sit for 3 years. We are removing all the diesel and cleaning the machine up. Looking someone that may know a fix (no codes) the old owner tried to fix in house. Cranks Great, just will not fire. We did buy a service manual
Thanks Allan

 

[whitetiger]

The SVL90-2 does not have a DEF tank.
You would have an SVL95-2 or SVL97-2 for it to have the DEF tank.

To repair the fuel in the DEF tank and run it error:
Retrieve and settle any other DTCs using Diagmaster
Drain and wash out/flush the tank with distilled water
Replace the DEF header in the tank
Replace the DEF pump
Replace the DEF lines
Replace the SRC muffler
Replace the DEF injector
Register the DEF injector using Diagmaster
Fill the DEF tank with fresh DEF
Perform a circulation test using Diagmaster
Clear DTCs using Diagmaster
Test run unit monitoring for any reoccurring or new DTCs using Diagmaster

 

[ADC224]

Thanks.
I have not had much time to look the machine over. I have a bad habbit. I like to eat and must work to support it. got in from a out of town job at 3:20 this morning
On the side of the machine is a sticker SLV90 2. I was going on what I was told by the seller on what happened to the machine. Maybe they were not truthful. It was in a rental fleet
We did pump the diesel out of the main tank. still need to clean the lines
There is parts of a small tank in the cab. Tracing the lines it looks to be a washer tank. We were told it was the DEF tank.
You do not want to know what we paid for this thing....the only reason we bough it being dead is we could part it out if we cannot get it running and make a bit. I would love to get it running. It would be so much better to dig a stock tank with, than my Case 580C

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I would start by doing a full cleaning of the fuel system then see if you ac get fuel to the pump.
I would also check all of the electrical, looking for popped fuses and such.

 

[whitetiger]

I was going on what I was told by the seller on what happened to the machine. Maybe they were not truthful.

They didn't put DEF in the diesel tank by any chance, did they?
That would sure keep it from running.

 

[ADC224]

They didn't put DEF in the diesel tank by any chance, did they?
That would sure keep it from running.

Good point. I will check the injectors and see if they may be clogged (toasted)
May take week or 2 to get to them
Thanks

 

[mikester]

They didn't put DEF in the diesel tank by any chance, did they?
That would sure keep it from running.

I can't imagine water in the injector pump sitting for 3 years being a problem...

 

[ruger1980]

My thoughts were initially what @whitetiger stated. More likely someone put DEF in the fuel tank. Fuel in a DEF system will cause emissions faults but not generally prevent it from running. DEF in the fuel will definitely cause it to not run. I have seen it done a number of times and if caught soon enough, usually well before the engine does not run, you may be able to just replace certain parts of the fuel system. But if left to long the entire fuel system will need replacing. I suspect that is probably between 10-15k on that machine. That is if it is a common rail fuel system.

Probably why it was such a good deal

 

[lugbolt]

Whitetiger outlines exactly why putting diesel in the def tank is a really bad idea. Doesn't matter what equipment it is, either (trucks, cars, tractors, etc), it can be and usually is, quite expensive

similar if def is added to fuel system. Injectors, supply pump, lift pump, lines, filters, cooler, etc

SImilarly, we used to have a full-service gas station here. When I worked at #1 kubota dealer (from 92 til 2018), I took our GMC 1 ton duramax over there to fill it before delivering a tractor. They topped it off while I was inside buying a Dr Pepper and a pack of reeses. I went back out, hopped in the truck and headed back to the shop. As I started to cut across 3 lanes of 55-70 mph traffic the truck just died. Wouldn't start. I was able to coast it into the lot at work, butt not out of the way (small parking lot). Popped the hood, didn't see anything abnormal, and since it was a shop truck I walked in & told the boss. Boss said "did you put gas in it?"--no they put fuel in it. Hmm...never even thought about it since we've had them fill the truck a thousand times. I walked back out, pulled the fuel cap, yep...full of gas. Charged us for diesel, but put gas in it. Had the truck hauled to the dealer and they had to replace a LOT of stuff, way more than I thought would be required, but it totaled about 12 grand. Gas station paid for it.

So yeah, you have to be really careful with this stuff.

 

[Hydro]

Whitetiger outlines exactly why putting diesel in the def tank is a really bad idea. Doesn't matter what equipment it is, either (trucks, cars, tractors, etc), it can be and usually is, quite expensive

similar if def is added to fuel system. Injectors, supply pump, lift pump, lines, filters, cooler, etc

SImilarly, we used to have a full-service gas station here. When I worked at #1 kubota dealer (from 92 til 2018), I took our GMC 1 ton duramax over there to fill it before delivering a tractor. They topped it off while I was inside buying a Dr Pepper and a pack of reeses. I went back out, hopped in the truck and headed back to the shop. As I started to cut across 3 lanes of 55-70 mph traffic the truck just died. Wouldn't start. I was able to coast it into the lot at work, butt not out of the way (small parking lot). Popped the hood, didn't see anything abnormal, and since it was a shop truck I walked in & told the boss. Boss said "did you put gas in it?"--no they put fuel in it. Hmm...never even thought about it since we've had them fill the truck a thousand times. I walked back out, pulled the fuel cap, yep...full of gas. Charged us for diesel, but put gas in it. Had the truck hauled to the dealer and they had to replace a LOT of stuff, way more than I thought would be required, but it totaled about 12 grand. Gas station paid for it.

So yeah, you have to be really careful with this stuff.

Your Shop got taken for a ride
Gasoline in the tank , in the short term you describe will not cause a parts failure
The "fix" should have been to drain the fuel and flush the lines

DEF in the fuel , on the other hand will usually require a complete fuel system
-- short term exposure , can get by with replacing the pump and injectors
and washing the tank and lines out with water

DEF is just purified Urea , so the same expectations for metal corrosion as for the fertilizer
Sealed in the fuel system of the SVL90 may not be a problem except for the pump and injectors , they will be "gummed" up because of the urea

For sure would need the tank and lines washed out with water , to wash out the DEF

 

[lugbolt]

Your Shop got taken for a ride
Gasoline in the tank , in the short term you describe will not cause a parts failure
The "fix" should have been to drain the fuel and flush the lines

DEF in the fuel , on the other hand will usually require a complete fuel system
-- short term exposure , can get by with replacing the pump and injectors
and washing the tank and lines out with water

DEF is just purified Urea , so the same expectations for metal corrosion as for the fertilizer
Sealed in the fuel system of the SVL90 may not be a problem except for the pump and injectors , they will be "gummed" up because of the urea

For sure would need the tank and lines washed out with water , to wash out the DEF

the Bosch CR injectors cannot take any gasoline. They are damaged. Same style injectors used in Kubota CR engines, and cummins, and quite a few more. seen plenty of those fail too. Supply pump, seizes. Gasoline has no or very little lubrication, diesel will lubricate-and that's what keeps the pump lubed. Once it's done, it sends debris through the system. I saw the pump with my own eyes, it was trashed. Truck ran mostly fine beforehand with no alarming DTC's other than a transmission code (allison...) that was later resolved. Also damaged were the rail pressure sensor--and it's part of the fuel rail on a lot of stuff, so that had to be replaced too. We told them replace everything that was going to be damaged now, or would be damaged later-as downtime is a real thing when dealing with delivery trucks. Not only does it cost in parts, but costs us customers too when we can't show up when we say we will.

Yes DEF will definitely cause issues. 67.5% urea, 32.5% deionized water. There's a quality sensor inside the def header that senses the concentration of def, if it's off even a tiny bit, you'll get codes--at least with kubota (and probably all of the def equipped stuff). Out here it's an issue since it gets pretty hot all summer long and plenty of humidity to boot, tank sweats in the nighttime and the concentration of def can change. I hate def and def is the exact reason I will never own another diesel engine once mine is done (old 7.3 IH Ford pickup)

 

[Hydro]

the Bosch CR injectors cannot take any gasoline. They are damaged. Same style injectors used in Kubota CR engines, and cummins, and quite a few more. seen plenty of those fail too. Supply pump, seizes. Gasoline has no or very little lubrication, diesel will lubricate-and that's what keeps the pump lubed. Once it's done, it sends debris through the system. I saw the pump with my own eyes, it was trashed. Truck ran mostly fine beforehand with no alarming DTC's other than a transmission code (allison...) that was later resolved. Also damaged were the rail pressure sensor--and it's part of the fuel rail on a lot of stuff, so that had to be replaced too. We told them replace everything that was going to be damaged now, or would be damaged later-as downtime is a real thing when dealing with delivery trucks. Not only does it cost in parts, but costs us customers too when we can't show up when we say we will.

Yes DEF will definitely cause issues. 67.5% urea, 32.5% deionized water. There's a quality sensor inside the def header that senses the concentration of def, if it's off even a tiny bit, you'll get codes--at least with kubota (and probably all of the def equipped stuff). Out here it's an issue since it gets pretty hot all summer long and plenty of humidity to boot, tank sweats in the nighttime and the concentration of def can change. I hate def and def is the exact reason I will never own another diesel engine once mine is done (old 7.3 IH Ford pickup)

Nice story Bro , but the gasoline (if that really was in there ) was not the primary cause of the pump failure -- that pump was about to fail anyways.
The engine would have ran really bad with gasoline in the tank -- enough to cause damage anyway in the short trip back to the shop.
Yes , with a pump failure it is recommended to replace all of the fuel system down stream of the pump -- since the fine metal from the failed pump will be coating the insides of the rails and lines , injectors would seize from the metal also.

But just gasoline contamination is not a primary cause of failure -- unless more long term -- the fuel is changed out and drive on
As I mentioned gasoline will not run well in the engine -- knocking and smoke are the indicators -- continuing to operate with those indicators will cause damage
if you were not experiencing the indicators , then there was not enough gasoline to make the difference

 

[lugbolt]

Nice story Bro , but the gasoline (if that really was in there ) was not the primary cause of the pump failure -- that pump was about to fail anyways.
The engine would have ran really bad with gasoline in the tank -- enough to cause damage anyway in the short trip back to the shop.
Yes , with a pump failure it is recommended to replace all of the fuel system down stream of the pump -- since the fine metal from the failed pump will be coating the insides of the rails and lines , injectors would seize from the metal also.

But just gasoline contamination is not a primary cause of failure -- unless more long term -- the fuel is changed out and drive on
As I mentioned gasoline will not run well in the engine -- knocking and smoke are the indicators -- continuing to operate with those indicators will cause damage
if you were not experiencing the indicators , then there was not enough gasoline to make the difference

I'm not your bro.

 

[Hydro]

I'm not your bro.

No , no your not
also not correct on short term gasoline contamination

 

[fried1765]

No , no your not
also not correct on short term gasoline contamination

"no your not"??????
Like in ....no, you're not ?

 

[whitetiger]

but the gasoline (if that really was in there ) was not the primary cause of the pump failure -- that pump was about to fail anyways.

Have you evaluated the pump?

 

[lugbolt]

No , no your not
also not correct on short term gasoline contamination

then don't call me "bro". I find it derogatory. And you're not exactly "right" either in short term gas contamination. But since you want to argue about it, I'll let you think you're 100% right.

 

[ADC224]

then don't call me "bro". I find it derogatory. And you're not exactly "right" either in short term gas contamination. But since you want to argue about it, I'll let you think you're 100% right.

My thoughts were initially what @whitetiger stated. More likely someone put DEF in the fuel tank. Fuel in a DEF system will cause emissions faults but not generally prevent it from running. DEF in the fuel will definitely cause it to not run. I have seen it done a number of times and if caught soon enough, usually well before the engine does not run, you may be able to just replace certain parts of the fuel system. But if left to long the entire fuel system will need replacing. I suspect that is probably between 10-15k on that machine. That is if it is a common rail fuel system.

Probably why it was such a good deal


Well we started working on the Unit (on the few days/hrs. I have off...I thought I owned theCo....However I found out it owns me)
Doing as my grandfather said when we had problem with one of the farm tractors. Start at the tank and work your way to the piston.
Cleaned out the fuel tank, water separator, replaced the fuel filter.
found the elect fuel pump is working. Testing the pressure regulator coil; it was and it getting power, however was not clicking. Took it out and tapped (banged on it) it with powered on, and it broke free (stilled order a new one)
We are not getting fuel out of fuel feed pump. Thinking of Ordering one. Need to find someone much smaller to work on this thing. It was not made for a 6’6” guy to work on

I paid for this unit for what 2 new tracks for it would cost.