Sizing Kubota Lowboy Generator

[eastvt]

I've got a phone appt with an electrician tomorrow. He's a good and smart guy.

The load here is really never over 5k unless the oven and or dryer are on, which is deliberate. I can see that from the Sense monitor we got with the solar install. Really, never.

No natural gas here, and we removed the LP gas tank a year ago. I'm done with the gasoline generator (fuel stability worries) so it's diesel. That really seems to limit the affordable choices. I'm definitely not married to Kubota (though I've used orange tractors for 22 years) but these Lowboy's seem like a reasonable choice -- there are autostart kits and such.

I'll keep looking and not hurry too much.

For the CPAPS, I've got a LiFePO4 battery that will get me through a few nights, and my wife has a battery powered travel one, so that's what we switch to in a power outage. Current generator runs a sub panel that doesn't go to the bedroom. A regular UPS is not a great choice for a long term load, as the inverter will drag it right down. Ideally you go DC right into the CPAP I think.

 

[InTheWoods]

How do you heat your domestic water?

 

[eastvt]

Heat pump water heater, stays on heat pump mode, pulls 300 watts.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

You'll have to put an algecide and some other 'treatments' in your diesel ! Every 'fuel' has problems if not used fairly soon.

 

[wp6529]

I've got a phone appt with an electrician tomorrow. He's a good and smart guy.

The load here is really never over 5k unless the oven and or dryer are on, which is deliberate. I can see that from the Sense monitor we got with the solar install. Really, never.

No natural gas here, and we removed the LP gas tank a year ago. I'm done with the gasoline generator (fuel stability worries) so it's diesel. That really seems to limit the affordable choices. I'm definitely not married to Kubota (though I've used orange tractors for 22 years) but these Lowboy's seem like a reasonable choice -- there are autostart kits and such.

I'll keep looking and not hurry too much.

For the CPAPS, I've got a LiFePO4 battery that will get me through a few nights, and my wife has a battery powered travel one, so that's what we switch to in a power outage. Current generator runs a sub panel that doesn't go to the bedroom. A regular UPS is not a great choice for a long term load, as the inverter will drag it right down. Ideally you go DC right into the CPAP I think.

The inverter efficiency in a UPS is pretty good, the issue is that the cheap units have small batteries as the are only intended for 5-10 minutes run time.

The better UPSes have ports for additional battery packs for extended run times. You can also get an oversized cheap UPS which will get you a longer run time under light loads.

Of course if you have an automatic generator the UPS only needs to hold things until the generator takes over.

Diesel is definitely the way to go. You can get smaller diesel standby generator packages from Generac (Guardian), Kohler, etc. Basically it's the light commercial line.

 

[eastvt]

So I found a 4 cylinder diesel Onan 20k for less cost than the smaller Lowboy. Not sure how expensive it would be to set it up for auto start. It’s about 24 years old with like 3100 hours on it. Assuming it’s got at least another 3000 hours of life in it?

Meanwhile, on another forum, I found a cluster of problems with the GL1100, all around 2017, all with engine runs/no electricity. IDK if that might have been a bad batch? Kind of scary in any case.

 

[InTheWoods]

Kubota knows little Diesel engines. Best in class as far as I'm concerned. Generators? Hmm...

Condition is everything. Yes - a properly maintained Diesel engine ought to be good for way more than 3k hours. Was it properly maintained? Hard to tell... 20kW seems like overkill. Bigger isn't better in this case.

You might hop onto the smokstak forum, where a bunch of Onan guys tend to hang out. If you only need 5kW, the Kubota-powered 7.5DKD will probably be their top choice

I like the old Onans and, in the right hands, are more economical and reliable than most of the new stuff, but can't recommend them to someone who won't be maintaining them himself. So if you need to 'hire out' the install and maintenence - just push the 'easy' (and expensive) button and get a new Kohler or Onan installed. You'll be very lucky to find someone to work on your old genset.

Also, do the math on LP. As a backup fuel, it has its advantages, even over Diesel. NOT saying it's better for everyone, but being able to keep 500 gallons of it in a tank for an unlimited time is a definite plus.

What did your electrician say?

Onan Generators

Restoring, operating, and maintaining vintage Onan generators. When asking questions about your generator, give your model number AND serial number. Smokstak Subscriptions, Support and Information

www.smokstak.com

 

[eastvt]

Yeah, just had the LP tank hauled away a year ago when we got rid of the gas range. Kind of a relief. But yeah, it would be great for a generator. On the other hand if we had a 9 day outage and ran out of LP it might be hard to get a truck here to deliver it. Keeping gas fresh for the current gas generator is something I don't like at all, aghtnd I'll be glad to move on from that. Diesel on the other hand I use in the tractor, so I can keep it pretty fresh.

I've done quite a bit of diesel tinkering (Diesel VWs, 20 years of Diesel Kubota tractors, fixed up my dad's old diesel tractor to give to my daughter included some serious troubleshooting (and then fixing that with her). But mostly I'd rather do oil and filter changes and not have to replace an injector pump or something.

Aware the 20k is overkill and would be running at below 1/4 capacity. Seems like it might be a good price and good machine though. Still thinking. And yeah, looking at smaller Onans.

My electrician blew me off this morning, so no input from him yet. Trying to keep this all in my head in one push and then hope to forget about it some -- but doing too much thinking about it at the moment!

And yeah, been looking on the Smokstak forum

 

[eastvt]

Will not get the 20k Onan. I would wet stack it running at such a light load.

 

[eastvt]

I've spent more time researching and thinking about this than I'll spend running the thing for the rest of my life. I'm pretty sure I've come down to the Champion 14k and will get a propane tank again. Maintenance details aren't included in the owner's manual, which I've read, so I might want to see about that. Comes with a transfer switch that will run whole-house on the 200 amp panel.

 

[InTheWoods]

Champion - Where are the engines made?

 

[eastvt]

Noooo......!

You're not going to pop this balloon too?

Almost certainly made in China.

Nevertheless, seem to have a decent reputation.

 

[eastvt]

This Onan is just a few miles from me. The guy selling it is an electrician, took it from a nearby lab that had used it for backup for its freezers but the power almost never went out, so almost never any use. 44 years old. I imagine dis-use is more of a problem for this than real use. I still don’t know what fuel it uses, a bit of back and forth with the guy. Still probably going with the Champion 14k, but this is a little interesting if it’s not diesel. Diesel I would wet-stack running my 1.2k load on the 15k diesel. If it’s LP it might be interesting.

ONAN GENERATOR 15 KW - tools - by owner - sale - craigslist

15 KW ONAN GENERATOR , LOW HOURS , TRADE IN ,INSIDE UNIT

vermont.craigslist.org

 

[InTheWoods]

... I still don’t know what fuel it uses...

It is gaseous fueled. I see the regulator - so LP or natural gas.

If you go look at it, open the control box and look for mouse damage - pretty common. The 15JC sets are super nice. I run a NG-fueled 7.5JB (which is the 2-cylinder little brother) here as my main backup set. Air-cooled, 1800 RPM, US made. They don't make stuff like that anymore...

 

[eastvt]

And at 1:27 AM, my portable generator is running. Snow event over performed the forecast by a good bit. 108 outages in my town. Bloody hell. I guess I’m not crazy to be working on the whole house generator. Back to bed, with my CPAP on the battery.

 

[wp6529]

Noooo......!

You're not going to pop this balloon too?

Almost certainly made in China.

Nevertheless, seem to have a decent reputation.

Yes China and yes Champion products are pretty decent quality. I have a Champion 7.5k portable generator as well as a couple of their winches for a number of years now and they still perform just fine. The generator even lives outside and still starts on first or second pull. I did have to replace the fuel tank valve/filter as the plastic handle died from sun exposure, cost like $6 and 5 min work. Never bothered replacing the starting battery when it wore out since it starts so easily manually.

 

[eastvt]

OP here. So I landed not on a diesel or whole house generator. I ended up with a portable gasoline powered Champion inverter generator #100520, 7000 running watts, supposedly 8750 surge watts. Since I got it we had a 30 hour outage, and it did really well, though I did get the overload light once. I guess even though mostly we are coasting along very far below any limit, the surges can pile on each other. No doubt the well pump surge, so I'll have to look at that. This is a very nice upgrade from the 15 year old standard generator of similar output, and much quieter and fuel thrifty. I still have to get out of bed in the middle of the night if that's when the outage hits, but at least I worry less about fuel and noise.

 

[InTheWoods]

Jeesh - quite a twist from your original plan of a whole-house Diesel set with ATS.

I'd keep a backup backup generator if I had a 'Champion'...

 

[eastvt]

Yeah, a crazy twist. I spent an awful lot of imaginary money, and I sure learned a lot, which was fun. The Kubota lowboy seemed like something reasonable that I could set up mostly myself and could auto-start, but the near certainty that anything I got would wet-stack on our under 1kw normal load moved me from the diesel. The propane whole house generators ended up crazy expensive with installation. My original notion that I could DIY that installation got derailed, and it seemed likely that it would be over $10k, and not just a tiny bit over. Also, it seems clear in reading forums that whole house generators have problems. So, I am resolved to be tough and go out into the storm and start the thing up in the middle of the night, as I have.

 

[WFM]

Have a honda EB5000 that I bought during the ice storm of 1998 here.
Still runs perfect. 1 pull and always starts. If the 220 deep well pump starts it will lug it down for a few seconds.
A few yrs back I bought a Duromax 15,000 that runs my house, welding shop, machinery ect. The only time it ever lugs is when a big air compresser starts.
But it's loud...and doesn't have a auto idle feature. After being without power for four days and listening to that thing roar I had a customer come in and told me me had bought a predator 9500 inverter from China Freight. He said you could hear every generator in the neighborhood But his. I looked online and CF had them onsale for $1800. -$500. Off the regular price, but if you sign up for a CF card you get 10% off your first purchase. So I did.
It's still in the box. But I'll dig it out soon. Add oil , hook up the battery. And very quiet I'm hoping.
With power out and working I'll still run the 15,000w beast.
But relaxing watching the Bruins I'll hook up the CF one. I hope it rots away and
I never have to hook it up.