Setting up a Dual Plate Clutch ???

[OlTrailDog]

Since this is sort of a separate topic from the rebuilding the L345DT engine, I thought I would make it a separate thread.

Today, I thought I'd simply take the dual stage clutch, discs, and flywheel to the Kubota dealer and save myself a lot of heartache by having them use their special tool (Code No. 07916-90050) and have the clutch clearance set prior to mounting the flywheel and dual clutch onto the engine. Refer to the pdf below for the manual direction. Small wrinkle...they do not have the clutch tool.

They suggested I talk to JD and New Holland. They both had a tool for setting up dual stage clutches but were doubtful if they had the right "fingers" or "sleeve" for setting the Kubota. I got a look at the NH tool and it is quite a bit different with an arm that serves as a "throw out bearing" and you adjust from that down to the bolts.

Not to be completely stumped, I just knew I could turn to the geniuses and shade tree mechs hereabouts for their advice and work arounds on how they have accomplished similar tasks of setting the clearances. I have searched here within and Googled to come up with a technique and thus far have not come up with an answer.

Secondly, it seems that I should be able to use my clutch alignment tool that will work for the pilot bearing and outer plate, but I will need to add a middle improvised section to center the first plate. In affect, this would be like a rod with three diameters (pilot, first plate, and second plate). Sound reasonable?

 

[D2Cat]

I have a dual stage clutch in a Deutz 6206. When it needed clutch work I had the clutch rebuilder make the adjustment there. No guess work, no hope it is right. Just install. It worked perfect as he adjusted it in his shop.

 

[rbargeron]

...... it seems that I should be able to use my clutch alignment tool that will work for the pilot bearing and outer plate, but I will need to add a middle improvised section to center the first plate. In affect, this would be like a rod with three diameters (pilot, first plate, and second plate). Sound reasonable?

Sounds very reasonable - I made one years ago - see attached pic - it's a little crude but it does the job. It started as 1-1/4" dia steel bar. I had borrowed a tool at the time and measured it for future jobs. Still works fine despite knocking around in the toolbox.

outer end: 0.583" dia. x 0.515" long
second step: 0.774" dia x 1.740" long
third step: 0.833" dia x 1.740"
remainder: 1-1/4" dia x 6" +/-

Using this kind of pilot tool, the bolts can be a bit loose and the parts can still be wiggled a little to center the clearances before tightening. Good luck.

 

[OlTrailDog]

Many thanks for the picture of the tool you fabbed up. It will help save a lot of trial and error guesswork. Since I don't have a lath I might take your pic and measurements to a local machine shop for an estimate. It would be great if I could score an aluminium dowel at Pacific Hide and Fur!

As far as setting the tolerances as in the pdf file, I called a fellow who use to own the Kubota dealership here. He stills does freelance work on tractors and as a welder. Even when he had the dealership they didn't have the clutch tool. When they needed to set the alignment they lathed up tools from wooden dowels for the various tractors needs. As for the arm and plate tolerances he said they put it all together and then adjusted the throwout bearing arms in the tractor from the adjustment window. Not near as nice as having it all preset by a long shot, but it looks like that is what I will need to do.

Regarding having the clutch rebuilders set it up. There doesn't appear to be a bonifide clutch shop around here. Most places work on automotive or trucks and I already talked to the tractor places. Apparently, from my earlier conversation today with the present Kubota shop mechanic, that clutch specialists would be Clutch Masters over in Billings, 140 miles east of Bozeman. I had the engine machine shop pick up the new clutch because they could get it for a better price than I had seen on the internet. But it came not set up and that is obvious because the adjustment bolts on the clutch arms are set very different.

So, peering into the crystal ball, it looks like shade tree mechanicing is looming in my future.

 

[BadDog]

That looks almost exactly like the alignment tool I machined from a piece of sucker rod I had lying about. Nothing all that precise, just had to reverse engineer from measuring the various components to figure out what it should look like. Probably a 30 minute project, but requires a lathe.

As for clutch setup, good luck. Oldthumpa had a great build thread on his setup tribulations that may help. I ponied up for good reputation parts and went to what I thought was a good reputation local commercial clutch (brake, etc) specialist working mainly on heavy equipment but covering the full range. Didn't find out until later that they were coasting on the inertia of their old reputation and that all the good guys who know their stuff had left years ago due to bad management. Basically now the Autozone of clutch/brake rebuilding. I won't go into all the painfully obvious bone head mistakes I found pre-install, but it was not a good experience in any way. All I can say is that it generally works, but the second stage doesn't release as it should, which presents some minor problems. But, on the up side, it no longer slips and I can generally work with it, so nowhere near the pain level to split it again and try for a better solution. Maybe someday. Unfortunately, it seems that the dual clutch is a pricey option that is nearly impossible to deal with maintenance wise. Local Kubota dealer is also a huge rip-off, so no good options here in Phoenix metro. Good luck...

 

[olthumpa]

Some light reading - only 143 posts.

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12172

Good luck!

 

[olthumpa]

deleted duplicate post

 

[OlTrailDog]

I've had the dual clutch installed for several days as I wait for the transmission seal and gasket (I thought I'd better do a little PM whilst the tractor is split).

Today, I had a horrible nagging doubt as to which side of the front clutch disc faces the flywheel. There is no markings as to which side faces the flywheel on the disc. I had looked at some WSM drawings and the other clutch plate before I installed it, but I couldn't help but think...OMG what if I got the front disc the wrong way and had to tear it all apart to flip the clutch disc...&((^*%$#%^%^^&.

So, I took it apart today and thought I would ask before I leap. Is anyone certain which way the front disc goes? One side has an obvious hub that looks like the hub on the second disc which is facing away from the flywheel. That is to say, do both "hubs" simply face the same way, that is, away from the flywheel?

Thanks for saving me from an potentially impending stupid mistake.

 

[OlTrailDog]

The flange or boss points toward the transmission. But I feel much better about double checking the orientation prior to installing. You know what they say...