Schools

[Bmyers]

Reading other post on another topic got me thinking about how schools and the education system has changed.

How schools have changed since I was there, I never would of thought about shooting my mouth off to a teacher.

I remember in Jr. High, I got a swat (yes I'm old enough that kids got punished in school) and I didn't do anything wrong. Short version, several boys took a girls lunch on the bus and I was on the bus and got called in with the group. Everyone got swats.

Afterwards I went home and told my dad that I didn't do anything wrong and I got a swat. Told him the whole story. I knew my dad would go have a talk with that principal.

Once I was done telling my side of the story, he looked me in the eye and said "so, you sit there why the other boys took a girl's lunch and you did nothing wrong? You didn't get the lunch back for her?" He turned around and walked off.

I realized at that point, the swat was nothing, seeing dad disappointed in me was a much greater punishment.

The failure to raise kids at home has led to a failure in the school system. Schools shouldn't have to raise kids, God gave us parents for that.

 

[85Hokie]

The failure to raise kids at home has led to a failure in the school system. Schools shouldn't have to raise kids, God gave us parents for that.

This is the best statement I have read ............ period.

And yet - we in the education business know that every couple of years a new theory comes out on how kids can learn better..........

The bottom line is that kids may have changed and typical parents are not doing their jobs - but at some point, the kid MUST attempt and do the work and the upper education thinks of 10 different ways to "reach" these students differently.

I have always said - we need to teach like the real world works - come to work on time, do the work well and get paid well.

But we are teaching how to take the valves out of diesel engine while it is still running!!!!!

 

[skeets]

"But we are teaching how to take the valves out of diesel engine while it is still running!!!!!
Now that statement is priceless

 

[NHSleddog]

Reading other post on another topic got me thinking about how schools and the education system has changed.

How schools have changed since I was there, I never would of thought about shooting my mouth off to a teacher.

I remember in Jr. High, I got a swat (yes I'm old enough that kids got punished in school) and I didn't do anything wrong. Short version, several boys took a girls lunch on the bus and I was on the bus and got called in with the group. Everyone got swats.

Afterwards I went home and told my dad that I didn't do anything wrong and I got a swat. Told him the whole story. I knew my dad would go have a talk with that principal.

Once I was done telling my side of the story, he looked me in the eye and said "so, you sit there why the other boys took a girl's lunch and you did nothing wrong? You didn't get the lunch back for her?" He turned around and walked off.

I realized at that point, the swat was nothing, seeing dad disappointed in me was a much greater punishment.

The failure to raise kids at home has led to a failure in the school system. Schools shouldn't have to raise kids, God gave us parents for that.

I agree 100%.

But why did we switch to teaching them garbage? Common Core (stupid name for learning everything but common), Everyday Math (stupid name for a math procedure you WILL NEVER USE A DAY IN YOUR LIFE). Critical Thinking (is the opposite of that, they mean "group thinking") Boys can be girls, girls can be boys? Everyone gets a trophy? Critical Race Theory etc. ANYTHING to keep them from realizing that we NO LONGER TEACH KIDS TO READ WRITE AND COUNT.

Unfortunately - where the rubber hits the road, it is the teachers teaching this crap, so the great respect I used to have for that profession (my mother was a teacher) is all but gone.

Now I do need to be sensitive here because apparently there are teachers in this country that do not get paid and are forced to work (true heros!). That is not the case here, in our area ALL our teachers are part of the NEA, are paid well, and they do it by choice.

They CRY about money all the time though. Our current public K-12 school budget is 78,000,000 SEVENTY EIGHT MILLION for 3740 students. Using the old math that is $20,855.61 PER STUDENT. including part time pre-schoolers. The last palace we built for them was over 27 million in air conditioned comfort. It would be OK if they were turning out well educated people. Unfortunately we are in the top 10% in expense and in the bottom 30% in performance in the state. And this is percentages of the sub-par public system, they don't compare to the private schools. The LAST thing they need is more money to waste. The more money they get, the lower the bar goes.

It is much easier to blame the parents though. Is it honestly the PARENTS fault that the teachers DIDN'T even attempt to teach them these skills?

 

[ccoon520]

This is all I will say here. Teachers have very little say in the curriculum that they get to teach. That is pushed down from federal, state, and local people who often have 0 experience teaching. Also teachers are unwilling to just walk out and refuse to teach because they are dedicated to doing the best they can for their kids with the resources they are given. They don't see striking as sticking up for themselves but abandoning those who they feel responsible for helping.

Private schools perform better because the parents are heavily involved in their kids education and push them to perform better and put the burden on the kid to learn based off what the teachers provide. Which often times can make bad teachers in a private school look better than good teachers in public schools. I have attended both public and private and can say the quality of teachers is the same but the quality of students vastly increases and number of distracting outbursts vastly decrease in private schools.

School budgets have to account for much more than this kid gets 20k. It pays for facilities, school boards, materials, busses, fuel, sports, academic teams (decathalon, speech, Model UN, etc.), Special Education needs, principals, counselors, and a miriad of other things beyond just a teacher's salary and each kid's books. Not to mention that teachers spend HUNDREDS of their own money to fill in the gaps like tissues, pencils, notebooks, hand sanitizer (even before covid), and books.

The last note is that the system is too focused on up to date data. Every Gov't (local, state, and federal) want fresh info on the progression of learning which means that students are taking some standardized test every 2 or 3 weeks which means teachers are stuck teaching for tests rather than having the flexibility to focus more time on a fundamental principle or difficult object and make up that time in later portions. When I was in school there were 4 standardized tests a year, 2 state and 2 federal, 2 happened before Christmas Break and the other 2 before Summer Break. What I am getting at is teachers are being micromanaged and are unwilling to strike because they are unwilling to walk out on their kids.

 

[85Hokie]

Both of you said it very well!

My wife is an English teacher ............. I could not do that ........ Can't even spell the word!!!

As a "shop", drafting, engineering, and construction teacher, I have the ability to go wayyyy of subject on many matters.......

in my construction classes - I teach electricity - wiring about 10 different circuits - from single pole switches to 4 ways ...... most love it - and many can use the general knowledge of the beginnings of how electrons move and conductors and the whole 9 yards BEFORE we even strip a wire....

something I added a few years ago - was the ol Tesla vs Edison......

AND as they do the research - THEY the students find out about the genius of Tesla - and how he was light years ahead of all researchers. Yet only now does he get the credit he deserved then.

They are horrified how Edison shocked an elephant right in New York City......... and how he fought hard to bad mouth AC ...... and how Edison screwed Tesla out of $50,000 in 1885 (about 1.7 mil today)

Anyway - my point of this - I get a chance to tell about stuff I FEEL IS important in the real world as opposed to "filling in the bubble on a test"

They see Tesla as a car company that uses "batteries" and they do not get the big picture ........yes it does use batteries BUT uses an AC induction motor that Tesla developed long before anyone had a clue.

Teaching use to be "fun" and yes you had some time off .......... we now have 9 weeks off - June 1 was last day and Aug 4 we start back .........

starting pay for a 4 or 5 year college grad - $43,000 .............. who in their right mind would want to do this job?

I believe in the next year to 2 years ............ teachers and police officers will be a job nobody wants due to the pay and problems that come with the job!!!! AND sorry - defunding either ........ stupid idea!

 

[aaluck]

Is it honestly the PARENTS fault that the teachers DIDN'T even attempt to teach them these skills?

Yes!! (Not an attack on you @NHSleddog , generally speaking)

1. Parents elect the folks that decide what is going to be taught.
2. Parents can unite and CHANGE what is being taught.
3. Parents can demand that the school board teach what THEY want their kids to learn.
4. Parents can (shouldn't have to but can--and most smart ones do) bite the bullet and send their children to private schools that align with their beliefs and actually teach.
5. Parents PAY for these 'educators' to survive and exist--and are you getting your money's worth at $21,000 per student--yet they continue to do it like sheep.
6. Parents willingly send their kids off to be 'programmed' and obviously say nothing.
7. Most parents don't take the time so SEE what they are being taught.

We do the exact same thing with all government. We get EXACTLY what we deserve. Pay what they demand and follow along like lambs to the slaughter. Why would government-run-schools be different?

Go the way the wind blows and try not to be canceled! Our new motto.

 

[85Hokie]

Yes!! (Not an attack on you @NHSleddog , generally speaking)

1. Parents elect the folks that decide what is going to be taught.
2. Parents can unite and CHANGE what is being taught.
3. Parents can demand that the school board teach what THEY want their kids to learn.
4. Parents can (shouldn't have to but can--and most smart ones do) bite the bullet and send their children to private schools that align with their beliefs and actually teach.
5. Parents PAY for these 'educators' to survive and exist--and are you getting your money's worth at $21,000 per student--yet they continue to do it like sheep.
6. Parents willingly send their kids off to be 'programmed' and obviously say nothing.
7. Most parents don't take the time so SEE what they are being taught.

We do the exact same thing with all government. We get EXACTLY what we deserve. Pay what they demand and follow along like lambs to the slaughter. Why would government-run-schools be different?

Go the way the wind blows and try not to be canceled! Our new motto.

Luck,

not attacking you either - agree with most.....

but you mentioned the word "parents" at least 7 times ........

The real truth of the matter is this - good parents typically educate "good" students who do well in school - but as we all know - some parent or parents have a child and work 20 hours a day and never "raise" their own - thus the schools pick up the slack....

riddle me this ..... why do WE teach "sex ed" in school? Why do we teach a student how to drive in school?

simple - neither are taught we at home - maybe I make the exception with drivers ed.

I went to public education for 8 years then a private school for 4 - rude to ruder experience on my behalf.
Class size went from 26 to 12 ....... no where to hide as a student - demerits for those that messed up in private school....

public school is just that - public and free. And with "free" ( I know taxes are used) you get a free education.

 

[NHSleddog]

Tons of great excuses there.

 

[NHSleddog]

... They don't see striking as sticking up for themselves but abandoning those who they feel responsible for helping.
...

It is funny that "striking" in order to improve the curriculum (improve the students) would be abandoning them, but striking for more pay (they never have a problem doing that here) is OK?

They get a lot more and produce a lot less. And now they teach garbage with what little resources they have. Some real sound logic steering the ship there.

 

[skeets]

I am and always have been pro union,, with that said,, the teachers union ,, meaning the upper echelon are the problem in MHO, but then thats has been a problem with all unions for quit some time. As I see it, the school systems are so gifted by government money they will do what ever just so it keeps coming in. And the student is the one that suffers in the long run. To much sports,, because the system gets money for that,,, shop class phhtttt who needs it? Well I ll tell you who needs it, these kids do. 90% cant change a tire or even know how, give 90% a tape measure they cant figure it out, or a level, or a square. and forget about using a welder or knowing about wiring it up. Yep it is Mom and Dad if he is around that are the base problem, that kids today have no idea what life is about, no idea about death, no idea about freedom or money or how to save it. Try and explain about thinking out side the ox to them and you get a blank stare! And forget about getting any of them to do any kind of work like baling hay or cutting fire wood, or making something to eat. Yep we are in deep trouble boys and girls. If things go sideways, this country is going to lose a whole generation because we didnt teach them. Forgive my rambling, maybe I expect to much from them.

 

[lugbolt]

parents.

Those kids that have two parents (male and female) traditionally do much better in school than those kids who have one parent or are part of a "gay" family. Statistics don't lie here. Argue as you please.

With that said we have may many more single parent homes now than just 20 years ago. This in itself lends toward "dumber kids". The more brains you have in any relationship the better off the entire group is. That's why large corporations don't have a single person making the decisions. That's why mom-and-pop places share ownership duties among, for instance, husband and wife. For the record I work for one of those and spend 26 years at another one of those.

Daddy can't raise a kid without a momma around. A kid can't have 2 daddy's or 2 mommas. Nor can a successful kid have just momma around. Argue this if you please but of ALL of the many single moms or single dads raising kids, nary a single one of them that I know of doesn't have at least shared custody as well as the part-time parent is always willing to help the kid(s).

with that, ask yourself why.

Gone are the days when a momma could be a stay-at-home momma and the family could prosper with just him working. The cost to live is ever increasing to the point where both have to work now. That means there is less time for the kids, or more specifically less family time. More stresses. It simply costs too much for a single parent to raise a family.

 

[MirandaCervantes]

Totally agree with you, man. Thinking that schools must bring up our kids is a huge mistake. I’d better describe a school as a place where a kid could use the knowledge he’s gained from his parents. In short, school is where you study, gain experience and make mistakes, but home is the place where you’re taught, beloved, and heard. I’m happy to see teachers who love the kids and their job. I have a friend who works at https://www.ngscholars.net/jamb-caps-portal-accept-reject-admission/. He used to work as a teacher, but then he moved to Nigeria to help students get more educated there. He’s a real teacher, I think. Anyway, best wishes to you and your families, guys.

 

[Crash277]

Few years back, my son was involved in an altercation (he was about 8-9); 2 kids were kicking the crap out of 1 kid. My son was not involved until he decided the kid on the ground needed help. He jumped in and broke up the fight. I got the call to go to the school. Sitting in the principles office I asked him about "imminent threat", then explained it. I asked him "if you would have ran to get a teacher would that kid continued to have been getting injured?" his reply "yes". I told the principle to feel free to give him the 3 day suspension for "fighting". However he will be playing video games, and eating junk food as a reward. I wasn't going to punish my son for helping someone in that situation. Bullies get to keep being bullies because defending yourself and others isnt allowed in school anymore.


edit: he didn't get a suspension.

 

[Biker1mike]

parents.
clipped..
Nor can a successful kid have just momma around. Argue this if you please but of ALL of the many single moms or single dads raising kids, nary a single one of them that I know of doesn't have at least shared custody as well as the part-time parent is always willing to help the kid(s).

with that, ask yourself why.

Gone are the days when a momma could be a stay-at-home momma and the family could prosper with just him working. The cost to live is ever increasing to the point where both have to work now. That means there is less time for the kids, or more specifically less family time. More stresses. It simply costs too much for a single parent to raise a family.

Dad died before any of us hit our teens. 3 out of 4 have advanced college degrees, 2 out of 4 are in the top 2-3 % of US income. Other 2 middle to upper middle class. All considered successful without jail time.
We knew what missing a meal was like and were taught hard work would prevail,

My own kids never went hungry and NEVER came home to an empty house. Wife did not work part time until all the kids were well into school years. If extra money was needed I took second jobs. Living on a single income means learning how to budget and not get all the latest toys.

 

[D2Cat]

Jay Leno use to do "J Walking", and go out on the street and ask folks questions on current affairs, US history, etc. He said he never edited their answers to his questions or edit his questions.

These YouTube interviews are similar and I have no idea about any editing.

 

[skeets]

That is so sad

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Makes a very strong case for why there should be some minimum/basic questions asked to be able to vote…for example, what is your name, do you know what year this is and when Is your birthday…I think we could even argue should there be a vote if not paying taxes, but I’d settle for some very basic questions as a pre requisite to eligibility to casting a vote.

 

[aaluck]

Makes a very strong case for why there should be some minimum/basic questions asked to be able to vote…

If you don't know who the current P/VP are you should not be allowed to vote. I also agree that if you are not paying taxes you should have no say in who runs the country.

 

[Bmyers]

If you don't know who the current P/VP are you should not be allowed to vote. I also agree that if you are not paying taxes you should have no say in who runs the country.

When it comes to taxes, which taxes have to be paid to qualify? Sales tax, income tax, property tax? All these, one of these?