Rural water pressure from well and how to improve

[Dave_eng]

I have live in a rural area with two brothers nearby each on their own well.

One brother frequently has nieces and nephews staying over and wanting to use water at same time.

Because I am an old engineer I am expected to solve all family technical issues.

Franklin Electrics new Sub drive utility to the rescue.

You need a 3 wire submersible pump. Red, Yellow, Black and Green as ground.

The sub drive replaces the previous control box with a capacitor and relay. No need to go into the well

The Subdrive turns your existing pump into variable speed pump. In effect your single phase pump becomes a 3 phase variable speed pump.

In this configuration the home water pressure remains high and stable. Previously it was on at 40 psi and off at 60 psi.

Now it maintains a steady 72 psi.

Previously I had a small 5 micron filter before a UV sterilization system but there was so much pressure drop through this filter I replaced it with one 4.5" x 20"

In Canada the subdrive was $1,500 + tax.

Dave

 

[lynnmor]

One brother frequently has nieces and nephews staying over and wanting to use water at same time.

Poor babies, if they can't get by with 40 to 60, go back home.

 

[jimh406]

Most people use pressure tanks.

 

[fried1765]

I have live in a rural area with two brothers nearby each on their own well.

One brother frequently has nieces and nephews staying over and wanting to use water at same time.

Because I am an old engineer I am expected to solve all family technical issues.

Franklin Electrics new Sub drive utility to the rescue.

You need a 3 wire submersible pump. Red, Yellow, Black and Green as ground.

The sub drive replaces the previous control box with a capacitor and relay. No need to go into the well

The Subdrive turns your existing pump into variable speed pump. In effect your single phase pump becomes a 3 phase variable speed pump.

In this configuration the home water pressure remains high and stable. Previously it was on at 40 psi and off at 60 psi.

Now it maintains a steady 72 psi.

Previously I had a small 5 micron filter before a UV sterilization system but there was so much pressure drop through this filter I replaced it with one 4.5" x 20"

In Canada the subdrive was $1,500 + tax.

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Dave

I had a well at my new Summer home in Nova Scotia.
Gould's, 1/2 HP at 200' (well had only 1 GPM flow).
Control box in basement, with..... "pump saver"
40-60 psi., with 80 gal bladder tank.
Worked just great, suitable pressure.
Bought ($500) pump in USA....MUCH cheaper than (most anything) in Canada.

 

[Poohbear]

Just me but I think you found a solution to a problem that didn't exist. I think now your going to start causing leaks @ 72 lbs psi. We run our well useing a Ruth-Berry pump set at 45-60 & no complaints even with all the fixtures in our house the new " low flow " .
I keep our RV setup as a guest bedroom & it's got a pressure reducer that only lets 40 psi thru.

 

[The Evil Twin]

I'm not a big fan of the varying 20 psi variance in my well pump [on @40/ off @60]. Since modifying all our fixtures to delete the flow restrictors, it is more noticeable. Thought about the Sub Drive, but I'm not so sure about pump longevity. A pump designed for duty cycle operation may not like low speed operation. The motor is likely to run hotter and the bearings might not get enough lubrication.
I'm interested in the longevity of this system.

 

[wp6529]

I'm not a big fan of the varying 20 psi variance in my well pump [on @40/ off @60]. Since modifying all our fixtures to delete the flow restrictors, it is more noticeable. Thought about the Sub Drive, but I'm not so sure about pump longevity. A pump designed for duty cycle operation may not like low speed operation. The motor is likely to run hotter and the bearings might not get enough lubrication.
I'm interested in the longevity of this system.

Remember that a well pump is sitting a nice bath of around 50F water, it is unlikely to overheat.

Here I just have my pressure switch set for 50/70 instead of the usual 40/60 and the bladder tank pre-charge adjusted to match and I get no water pressure complaints.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

A lot of 'same time use' means you need more GPM not PSI.
When I went submerssible, I installed a LARGE pressure tank to reduce the number of 'on-off' cycles which increase pump and pressure switch life. Tank is in basement as it's too big to fit into the 'well bunker'.
The only restrictor I need to eliminate is the one in the kitchen faucet...takes 'forever' to fill the canning kettles.......and spagettii pots !

 

[ctfjr]

Several years ago one of my sons complained that his city water pressure was low. It dropped down to 30 psi at times. We installed a Goulds booster pump in the basement. It was a variable speed pump that held the pressure fixed. Worked fine and still does. I just checked my company's inventory and I see that it appears that model is obsolete (1AB2LB1035 GOULDS AQUA-BOOST II}.
We are now selling the CMBE1-44 GRUNDFOS 115VOLT PRESSURE BOOSTER PUMP 98810910 . Does the same thing.

Just another option

 

[Hkb82]

Another advantage is @70+ psi you should also find out what other joints or fittings are weak. Hopefully you don’t run into issues with that high pressure and quick connect fittings. Time will tell.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Remember that a well pump is sitting a nice bath of around 50F water, it is unlikely to overheat.

Here I just have my pressure switch set for 50/70 instead of the usual 40/60 and the bladder tank pre-charge adjusted to match and I get no water pressure complaints.

With submersible pumps, the "bath" isn't what cools them. It is water flow between the jacket and motor. Reducing pump speed results in higher winding temperature. Coolant flow is also reduced. It's a double hit.
Even on industrial motors driven by frequency drives, there is a minimum continuous duty speed. The reason is that the cooling fans affixed to the shaft turn at the same speed as the motor. Slower motor speed= slower fan speed= less coolant (air) flow.
I'm not saying it is certain death for a well pump. Just curious of the impacts it will have to longevity.

 

[D2Cat]

From my experience I'd suggest a bladder tank and not have the pressure higher then 50 PSI. I have a similar setup at my farm and I keep the pressure at just under 40# and it's plenty high when I open the hyd. to fill a tub. The bladder tank is what smooths out the delivery and keeps the pressure at desired level. In my opinion, high pressure invites trouble and in home you get water hammer at all the appliance with high pressure when they shut off.

 

[Hkb82]

That’s correct and pretty good water hammer at 70psi.

 

[wp6529]

With submersible pumps, the "bath" isn't what cools them. It is water flow between the jacket and motor. Reducing pump speed results in higher winding temperature. Coolant flow is also reduced. It's a double hit.
Even on industrial motors driven by frequency drives, there is a minimum continuous duty speed. The reason is that the cooling fans affixed to the shaft turn at the same speed as the motor. Slower motor speed= slower fan speed= less coolant (air) flow.
I'm not saying it is certain death for a well pump. Just curious of the impacts it will have to longevity.

Submersible well pump motors are typically oil filled and they are mounted at the bottom of the pump with the intake and impeller stack above them. The water does not flow through the pump motor at all, though in the typical well casing there will be water flow going past the motor casing while it is running. In any case, the motor windings are immersed in oil which provides thermal coupling to the motor housing which is immersed in water which provides thermal coupling to a whole lot of thermal mass from the aquifer.

As for the comments on my 70psi setting, if you plumbing is in such bad shape that it can't handle 70psi you have much bigger problems. Typical city water pressure is above 70psi, often quite a bit higher.

 

[B737]

David, I have had this system installed on my well pump for 7 years, it has been entirely trouble free. Besides having constant water pressure that does not fluctuate, i dont know its there. Excellent system, I wouldn't have a well pump without it.

 

[DustyRusty]

I have the same problem at home, and I have 3 pressure tanks in the cellar, however, one has failed and it was removed from the system. Our water pressure has been notoriously low since we moved in 40 years ago. I do have a large sediment problem that ruined one water heater when all the sediment filled up the bottom of the tank and it became a large rock. When the oil burner fired up under it, it would cause the water to boil under the rock and it would make quite a racket. Replaced that tank with a 90-gallon Bock oil fired that could be cleaned out through the hand holes if necessary (still in cellar because I can't find enough people to drag it up the cellar stairs). I added a Resideo Braukmann filter to the incoming water line to eliminate the sediment problem, however, some seem to still get by the filter. I know because I found sediment in the downstairs toilet tank. I just cleaned the filter last night and do it every 90 days (picture below). I think that it is a 100-micron filter.

 

[wp6529]

I have the same problem at home, and I have 3 pressure tanks in the cellar, however, one has failed and it was removed from the system. Our water pressure has been notoriously low since we moved in 40 years ago. I do have a large sediment problem that ruined one water heater when all the sediment filled up the bottom of the tank and it became a large rock. When the oil burner fired up under it, it would cause the water to boil under the rock and it would make quite a racket. Replaced that tank with a 90-gallon Bock oil fired that could be cleaned out through the hand holes if necessary (still in cellar because I can't find enough people to drag it up the cellar stairs). I added a Resideo Braukmann filter to the incoming water line to eliminate the sediment problem, however, some seem to still get by the filter. I know because I found sediment in the downstairs toilet tank. I just cleaned the filter last night and do it every 90 days (picture below). I think that it is a 100-micron filter. View attachment 121503

Yikes, I filter to 1um here.

 

[fried1765]

I have the same problem at home, and I have 3 pressure tanks in the cellar, however, one has failed and it was removed from the system. Our water pressure has been notoriously low since we moved in 40 years ago. I do have a large sediment problem that ruined one water heater when all the sediment filled up the bottom of the tank and it became a large rock. When the oil burner fired up under it, it would cause the water to boil under the rock and it would make quite a racket. Replaced that tank with a 90-gallon Bock oil fired that could be cleaned out through the hand holes if necessary (still in cellar because I can't find enough people to drag it up the cellar stairs). I added a Resideo Braukmann filter to the incoming water line to eliminate the sediment problem, however, some seem to still get by the filter. I know because I found sediment in the downstairs toilet tank. I just cleaned the filter last night and do it every 90 days (picture below). I think that it is a 100-micron filter. View attachment 121503

"Still in the cellar, because I can't find enough people to drag it up the cellar stairs".

Outside access cellar stairs ????

Not a problem!
Don't you have a BH?
Lower BH boom into stairwell to lift Bock heater up/out.
I used my hoe to set my 850 lb safe in.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I have a similar setup on our house.
It's a variable speed pump controller.
The water pressure is really irrelevant as it can be whatever you set it at.
It's much cheaper to run because it only runs as hard as it need to to keep up, so little demands use little electric.

 

[wp6529]

I have a similar setup on our house.
It's a variable speed pump controller.
The water pressure is really irrelevant as it can be whatever you set it at.
It's much cheaper to run because it only runs as hard as it need to to keep up, so little demands use little electric.

You will use pretty much the same amount of electricity to pump the same volume of water with a variable pump vs a fixed speed one.

The fixed speed one fills the bladder tank and then is off until you've used enough water to drop down to cut-in pressure. The variable speed pump does pretty much the same thing only the pressure drop to trigger it is smaller and then the pump will shut off when you stop using water and the pressure reaches its cut-off pressure.

The pressure differential is like 20 psi on the fixed pump system, while the variable speed system will only be a psi or two differential which you don't notice. Either way if you use 10 gal of water you are paying for the electricity to pump 10 gal of water. There is no electricity savings, just the extra cost of the variable system to get you the non-noticeable pressure drops.