"Run away" Kubota engine

[707pc50]

I just purchased a used diesel generator at a Richie bros auction. It is a 7kw Kubota powered 1800rpm 3cyl engine, generator assembled by hardi diesel. 2500 hrs. I bought it for a good price, so I thought, with out being able to run it (dead battery). Oil and coolant looked good the thing looked brand new. Got it home charged it up, replaced a couple missing relays and bled fuel system. Got it to fire, watched the RPM climb past 1800 to about 2300 with no sign of stopping I snuffed the air intake with my hand and shut it down. Key switch and pulling the fuel line didn't work. After looking around I noticed the oil was milky white ie water, I'm assuming at that point from it sitting out and rain water going down the straight up exhaust pipe. I'm thinking I didn't notice it at auction because the water separated from the oil and didn't show on the dipstick? I was hoping the water added to the oil caused the volume in the oil pan to be so great that it pushed oil around the rings into the cumbustion chamber and making the engine run away?
I changed the oil and fired it up again same thing, this time very hard to shut down seemed like it was gonna suck the skin off my hand when I plugged the air intake with my hand. Took a lot to get it to shut down it would almost shut down then suck some air from a seem in the aircleaner and gain rpm. Seems like great compression. Pulled the aircleaner off noticed oil in the manifold that the aircleaner mounts to??

What should I do? The thing appears to be brand new I can't see how it could be worn out to the point of sucking oil around the rings to run away on? But I know nothing of the history and it could have ran its entire 2500hrs with out an oil change, but I doubt it. Where else could it be getting oil? One friend of mine is thinking a leaky valve guide seal? I don't have the engine model on me but can get it Monday when I'm at my shop. Do I need a complete rebuild? Should I pull head and have it pressure tested? Could it be governor related? Or some fuel pump seal leaking? Where do I start? Need help thought I found a good deal now I am starting to question this...

 

[Tx Jim]

I'd suggest to check the operation of the governor and it's associated linkage. You could also check cylinder compression.

 

[Dave_eng]

As you are realizing using your hand to stop a Run-a-way is dangerous.
Some owners carry a piece of wood to block the intake. Don't use rags as they will be ingested. The safest way is with a CO2 fire extinguisher directed into the intake as it displaces the oxygen and with no oxygen the engine stops.
You could have a stuck governor assembly. Blocked crankcase vent system can pressurize the crankcase resulting in oil being forced into the cylinders and thus a run-a-way.
Dave M7040

 

[Daren Todd]

Yup, like tx Jim stated, check the operation of the governor. On the side of the injection pump you should see a little rocker arm that is locked in place with a couple set screws. Try backing the set screw on the left side off and see if your rpms drop off. Someone could have cranked up the rpms in an attempt to get it to run.

If there is no change and the engine still runs away then there is probably an issue with the injection pump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diydave]

I'd Call Richie Bros, I have heard that id they advertise something as running, They'll make it good...

 

[707pc50]

Richie brow didn't adverise it as anything except a generator so they ain't gonna help, I should have gone a day early with a battery and a fuel jug and ran it but to late now, That's what I get for going with a auction.

I will look into the governor. Does anyone know where I can find a blow up picture of the governor assembly and how to adjust it? I will look to see if it looks like it has been messed with. Honestly this thing doesn't look like it's been worked on at all, non of the bolts look to have been ever touched with wrench. What about the oil in the manifold that the aircleaner bolts to? I'd think if it were a blocked engine vent that the engine would spit out the dip stick, but don't know for sure. If it were a clogged vent system... What should I look for, remove the pcv valve and see if it still runs away? Not second guessing just trying to learn more about these things. It sounds good when it runs no knocking and odd sounds just quickly accelerates above the 1800 rpm mark with no sign of slowing down?

I'm really hoping I don't have to pull off the head or rebuild. Can a compression test check If the valve seals are leaking? Pull injectors to compression test?

Thanks for the replys

 

[Grumpy560]

If that generator sat unused for a long period of time then things are going to be stuck/frozen in place. No need to pull it apart just yet.

On the side of the injection pump there's a cover plate. 4 10mm bolts hold it in place also known as the stop lever plate. Remove this plate and inspect the governor linkage. It should move freely without and binding, if its stuck or sluggish you will need to free it up, I used WD40 on mine.

I bought a new "used" D950 that sat bolted to a pallet for many years. When I got to the point of starting it for the first time it instantly ran away. When I removed the stop lever plate I found the governor linkage frozen solid in place. Once I got it freed up it ran perfectly.

 

[707pc50]

Ok cool I will remove that plate and see if the governor is stuck on Monday. Thanks for the advise

 

[707pc50]

So I have been reading old threads about runaway engines on here and keep coming across people mentioning newer tier 4 tractors that had this problem and needed a pcv valve recall kit installed on them.

This generator is a 2014, I will get engine model numbers Tuesday am and serial numbers. Is this something I should be looking into, or is it only a problem on the tractors? (doubt that since the engines seem very similar on this generator and my Kubota tractor and my bobcat excavator, all 3cyl Kubota engines?)

Also thinking that if it were the governor it would not have run when fuel was disconnected, it was running on oil. And when it ran away the first time we pulled the air box off so we would know we could have a easy port to snuff out and not being worrying about many small gaps in the airbox, so in doing this we also removed the hose that vents the pcv to the airbox so I don't think it could have been getting oil through there anymore so unless I'm missing something that rules that out?

Thanks please keep the advise and thoughts coming

 

[Daren Todd]

It wouldn't hurt to ask. What brand is the generator,? You may have to call the manufacturer first before going to kubota. With it having 2500 hours it's probably out of warranty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[707pc50]

It is a hardi diesel generator set, the 1800rpm diesel gen set market is fairly small with a few different companies making a frame and mating a Kubota long block with a generator head and adding a start controller.

 

[skeets]

I think they are made in china and are the old China diesel , I could be wrong though

 

[707pc50]

Yeah I will do that, may as well ask, I'm sure either hours or me being second owner and no way of finding first owner would nullify warranty but I will ask, can't hurt. But if it is something simple I'd rather just fix it myself And start using the thing. Thanks

 

[707pc50]

I think they are made in china and are the old China diesel , I could be wrong though

Not made in China, hardi diesel was started by a guy in San diego, I think the company now farms them out to be assembled by a Kubota dealer in North Dakota.

 

[707pc50]

As per Kubota website, the engine is under 3year 3000 hour warranty, but only to the original purchaser so I guess I'm out of luck there.

 

[707pc50]

engine is a kubota-d1005-e3b

 

[Daren Todd]

What about through hardi?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[707pc50]

I have an email into hardi, we'll see what they say but I have a feeling everyone will play the "your not the first owner" card but who knows. I was hoping I was missing something fairly simple and could either fix it myself or at least troubleshoot it to the point of identifying the cause of it running away. But with it continuing to run with no fuel and with it still continuing to run with the breather hose conecting pcv to the airbox removed I would tend to eliminate a governor or pcv issue as being the cause?? But I'm no mechanic just trying to critically think about it. Thanks for the help

 

[Apogee]

First thing I'd be doing is contacting Kubota and figuring out if they have a retrofit kit for that engine. Link is below. If they do and it's not installed, I'd be calling the regional rep and letting them know that it appears you might have a PCV related engine failure.

It's definitely a Tier 4 engine:
http://www.kubotaengine.com/assets/documents/08_d1005_36.pdf

From the Kubota site:
How can I find out if there are any product recalls/campaigns on my tractor?

Kubota would be more than happy to check for any outstanding Service Campaigns on your Kubota product. Please contact us with your product full model and serial number. Or contact your local dealer for assistance.

http://www.kubota.com/contactus/ContactKubotaForm.aspx

Regarding the water in the oil, it could be a blown head gasket. However, before you take it apart, figure out the PCV issue. You might be stuck with the problems but maybe not and you don't want to take it apart before you know for sure. It *could* be that the original owner had trouble with it, called Hardy and they pointed at Kubota. Then they called Kubota who, at the time, pointed at Hardy... If Kubota has since released an update kit for that engine and one is not installed, then it's likely that caused the failure. It that case, it's Kubota's baby and they should step up and fix it regardless of who owns it. This might be a case of the squeaky wheel getting the grease if you're persistent enough. There's NO way that engine should be shot at 2500 hours in a generator application.

Highly doubt it's sucking enough oil through one or more valve guides to continue running by itself. More likely it's pulling oil though the PCV system. You might try disconnecting the PCV, venting the valve cover to the atmosphere and plugging the vacuum line to see what you get.

Interesting problem. Bummer because it sounds like a really nice genset.

Good luck!

 

[Apogee]

We were typing at the same time.

If the rack in the injection pump is stuck, either due to the rack itself or a governor problem, one could still have fuel even though one thinks the fuel is shut off.