Root Bucket/Claw *was* SSQA multi use base

[Stomper]

I just finished building the below ssqa frame for a small stump bucket I am building. It's pretty beefy because I just used what I had laying around so it hasn't cost me anything. The square tube is 4"x4"x1/4" and everything else is also 1/4" material, so it should hold up to any abuse my little kubota L2501 can give it. There are a few other attachments that I would like to have which I will eventually build. Such things as a boom pole/jib and what ever else I can dream up to build when a job dictates a specific attachment/tool. I have been eyeballing the SSQA back hoe also. With not wanting to build a quick attach plate every time I make a new attachment, I have come up with an Idea I am going to try. The four small white circles on the cross tubes in the one picture, will be holes with crush tubes welded in place. The crush tubes will be big enough to accept 3/4" bolts. The idea of the whole thing is to only have one quick attach frame and to be able to bolt on several different attachments. Being that my tractor is small and can't dish out too much abuse, I see no reason that this shouldn't work. With this frame and 3/4" bolts i don't think there should be much of an issue. Time will tell. Feel free to give me your opinions and/or any ideas that might save me some grief in the future.

 

[Ramos]

Re: SSQA multi use base

If you don't mind messing with the bolts, it should be just fine. Nice job, by the way!

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

Trust me four bolts will be much easier that building several QA's. It is going to be for attachments that I don't use all that often, but will come in handy when I do need them, so the bolting and unbolting won't be that often.

 

[Yooper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

First off, very nice job on the ssqa! Taking the time to miter and round the corners gives it a professional look. And weight wise, I think you're just fine.

One idea I have for you is to install two tapered line up dowels to aid you when switching between attachments. Even just one on the top tube would help. Also, grade 8 bolts to survive the pounding in and out.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Re: SSQA multi use base

Your frame looks great, little heavy and moves the lift point out a ways which reduces your lift buy quite a bit. The key to SSQA and tractors is light and close.
Yes a Skid Steer can handle a 1/4 plate that weighs 150 lbs and not effect it's lift very much they also have the force to need a 1/4 plate, but a Compact tractor you will loose a lot of potential, your better off with a 3/16 plate and save the weight for the load.

I don't agree with your thoughts on bolting and unbolting attachments.
The whole Idea behind SSQA is to not have to take the time and effort to line up pins and bolts.
You can buy a flat plate for about the same if not less than you've got into that frame and it will move everything back to the pivot point and be a lot less weight to deal with.

A boom pole for the loader sounds great in theory, But moving that lift point out so far will not allow you much lift and will make the tractor unstable unless you use a lot of rear ballast.

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

Yeah it looks heavy and built solid. I have no idea what the weight is but it's not that heavy, I have been lifting it off and on the FEL by hand easily without issues. I would be surprised if it was much over 100 lbs. Even if I double or even tripple the weight of it with a bolted on attachment it's still going to be lighter than my bucket or my pallet forks. There's not many skid steer/ loader attachments out the under the 300# mark. The main reason I started this project was for a stump bucket to remove several smallish stumps around my property. The bolting on other attachment idea came about, just in case I needed some other hair brain attachment in the future. I may never make another attachment or remove the root bucket, but with the bolt on idea, at least I have an option if I need to. Could it be lighter, sure but I built it with what I had on hand so I guess beggers can't be choosers. lol. Good point about the weight moved out further from the pivot point. I did't think that 4' would make that much of a difference but I guess it would for these small compact tractors. Love the comments and ideas, keep them coming

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

First off, very nice job on the ssqa! Taking the time to miter and round the corners gives it a professional look. And weight wise, I think you***8217;re just fine.

One idea I have for you is to install two tapered line up dowels to aid you when switching between attachments. Even just one on the top tube would help. Also, grade 8 bolts to survive the pounding in and out.

Thanks Yooper. Yeah aligning pins would make thing easier for lining up.

 

[torch]

Re: SSQA multi use base

I'm with Wolfman on this. It seems to me that making a separate frame and then bolting things to it not only adds unnecessary weight, it shifts that weight out even further. Properly designed, the SSQA is incorporated into the attachment, keeping things both lighter and closer. To put it another way, you don't need a frame if the attachment itself is the frame.

 

[Yooper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

I'm with Wolfman on this. It seems to me that making a separate frame and then bolting things to it not only adds unnecessary weight, it shifts that weight out even further. Properly designed, the SSQA is incorporated into the attachment, keeping things both lighter and closer. To put it another way, you don't need a frame if the attachment itself is the frame.

That was my initial thought too. But then I thought Stomper probably had a bunch of fun building it and after a few years of the bolting thing he'll probably build ssqa's for the attachments. And he'll have fun doing that too along with
an appreciation for the convenience of the ssqa.

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

I may have changed plans for this project. Instead of the "bolt on" plan I may just take the advice given above and just make this a dedicated root bucket. Reason being is because I think I want to add a small grapple to the bucket to pick up the roots and rocks I dig up. I could then also use it for moving logs around for fire wood. figuring out how to make make this removeable with a grapple and still be strong enough has been an issue. The below picture are what I have so far. The bucket is just tacked on for now so it's not to late to change but I think this is probably the way I am going to go. I'm actually surprised at the weight because I can still lift it off my welding bench, but thats it. Wouldn't want to try to set it on the floor. Having said that theres not many attachments I would even be able to lift. So I don't think the weight is too much. I guess time will tell.

 

[torch]

Re: SSQA multi use base

That's pretty impressive. I like the concept.

 

[Yooper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

You should cut some teeth in your gussets to help keep the firewood from sliding off. Weight wise you are just fine.

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

Yeah I was thinking that also about the teeth

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

I did some figuring today and come to the conclusion that I am going to go with a 2 inch bore x 8 inch stroke cylinder for the grapple on my bucket. This will give me a 36 inch opening when the cylinder is completely retracted. According to the manual my tractors hydraulic system has 2200 psi pressure. This gives me 6908 pound force That the cylinder is putting out. Now that I know the force the cylinder is putting out, How do I figure out what my clamping force is at the end of the bucket. Is there some sort of formula for mechanical advantage for this

 

[torch]

Re: SSQA multi use base

The force exerted also depends on the angle of the cylinder to the direction of force. Here's a handy on-line calculator:
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_calc_ang.htm

Once you have calculated the force at the fulcrum, you can calculate the foot-lbs of torque at the end of the lever.

 

[Stomper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

Thanks torch. I'm not at home right now to get an accurate angle of the cylinder, but for the angle, I want the pressure to be straight down on the bottom of the bucket, and the cylinder is at an angle of roughly 20 degrees from the bottom of the bucket when fully closed.
So if I used the calculator right and I guessed right on the angle, I should have 2360 pounds +- clamping pressure. Does this seem right?

Having said that, wouldn't the clamping force be differnt through out the whole range of stroke then. Which would give it zero clamping pressure when the cylinder is parralel with the bucket bottom. Or is it the angle of the cylinder compared to the grapple arm. Sheesh this stuff is confusing

 

[Yooper]

Re: SSQA multi use base

You are overthinking this. Your loader will not pick up something that the clamp pressure cannot hold.

 

[torch]

Re: SSQA multi use base

Having said that, wouldn't the clamping force be differnt through out the whole range of stroke then. (

Yup. That's why FEL manufacturers give different capacities at different heights -- the angle between the cylinder and the load changes. The only time the force is constant is in linear applications, such as a log splitter.

Also, note that a cylinder has more power retracting than extending. This is because the available piston surface area is reduced by the cross section of the ram.

 

[Stomper]

Heres where I'm at now. I made up all the cylinder mounts and just have them tacked in place for now. I will pick up the rest of the hydraulic parts tomorrow and cycle everything to make sure it works before I weld it solid. After that all it should need is some paint.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

One small piece of advice:
If that's all the stroke you have, I would leave a gap in the pinch just so that you can get it to go as wide open as possible, or maybe move your front point back.
Also consider adding a cover sleeve (shield attached to the front of the ram) over the cylinder or you will more than likely destroy the front wiper seal in nothing flat from a stick / root / branch coming in contact with the seal.