Retirement

[RCW]

^^^^
Following @jyoutz “3-bad day” theory, I’ve often said my tenure could be measured by the day I’m having…..

According to the Rumor Mill at work, I was supposed retire this past April or May…..

Your thread has been somewhat enlightening to me. My horizon is short, and it reinforced that I’ve checked quite a few of the boxes I need to.

As you say, I don’t look at it as retirement as much as looking for something fun to do part time that puts a few bucks in my pocket.

I’ve already been offered a full time job in a much different industry. Don’t see that happening as proposed, but a variation might work.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Fun? My work has often been challenging and always rewarding, but fun? What is this fun you speak of?

If your work is fun and provides a way for you to make a decent life, you are seriously blessed.

I look at it this way…when you work for someone else (by that I mean someone else company) they reap the spoils of you labor…you get a paycheck to sustain your quality of life whatever that means (it’s different to everyone). When you retire you have the ability to reap the spoils…it may be less pay, but you get all the profit on your time and your way…not saying it’s better or not, but it is different, or so I think. From that standpoint reaping your spoils is very appealing.

take cutting wood on a Saturday as an example…most folks I work with don’t do anything at my age other than golf…that is a straight up expense as a hobby. I cut and split wood as a hobby but I also get some benefit in winter financially and from a personal pride standpoint. The duffers, they spend a fair amount of their wage for the pleasure of sucking at golf…literally they are paying someone else to cut that lawn plus they have to pay for their heat in winter. I have a sick enjoyment of cutting wood it’s relaxing…so my hobby doesn’t spend the greens fee plus I save on the winter heat…so from that standpoint I save a fair bit of money compared to my peers and have some pride (mentally rewarding). To me those are soils but I am limited to that on weekends.

In my case from what I have read I am not as advanced as you, however from being able to reap the spoils of self labor I am envious for sure in what you are doing. Great job and good luck.. From this month I have 25 yr anniversary with same fairly large corp…pay is decent but the company is not same company I hired in to. Never the less I have done well for myself. However the only time I reap the spoils is on weekend. Financially I am good now and could quit whenever I like despite not being of retirement age. My struggle is reprogramming my mind to start draining savings/investments…I just was not raised that way. I was raised to put percentage to savings/investments from very early age and then pay bills with what’s left…I was never really trained to spend…I am a tight ass (frugal may be better word as I will buy what I consider to be an asset) for sure, but not trained to start draining funds without an income. (Dad taught me to squeeze the nickel till the Buffalo shit…so as a result I am am not struggling).

I currently am trying to buy yet another property and that is currently preventing me from reaping my spoils. Unfortunately that means I will have another mortgage until I take the leap…even when I look at the math I know I am not being rational to carry a second mortgage / property (which is where I will move to in retirement) but I am not programmed to spend while not earning paycheck.

good luck with the mindset shift. I am not far behind you

with that my question is when / how decide to take the leap? How train yourself to spend while not saving? Any advice would be appreciated.

PS….congratulations.

 

[Magicman]

If we always knew exactly where/how we would land....we would never jump.

 

[old and tired]

Plot twist on this thread... Yea, I'm in the same boat... plenty of money and nothing I *need* to spend money on. I'm cheap and still look at what's for free on Craig's list... You never know when a bargain will pop up. I could buy new but it's the hunt, I'm here for...

I have no children but have a wife that will out live me for sure (at least that's the plan). Her family all lived very long lives... my pension will support her for her life time.

When to jump? When it cost you... A dear friend was worried about this, I was first inline to take his job but he never thought he would have enough money to retire. Long story short, he worked 40 years and retired at 125% of his salary.

This means a couple of things, 1) His take home pay after he retired was $900 MORE per month. But that also meant that last year he worked, he paid the State $900/month just for the joy to come to work.

He lost money by working (unless he lives a long life to recover the costs) - Look at what you get in retirement vs. what your net take home pay is.

For me, getting about $3/hour was not worth it... Once Social Security kicks in (6 months) I'ii be getting way more money than I was working... yes, I'm taking it at 62... not sure how long I will have to be able to get my money back.

That's for another thread... or is it?

 

[NCL4701]

I look at it this way…when you work for someone else (by that I mean someone else company) they reap the spoils of you labor…you get a paycheck to sustain your quality of life whatever that means (it’s different to everyone). When you retire you have the ability to reap the spoils…it may be less pay, but you get all the profit on your time and your way…not saying it’s better or not, but it is different, or so I think. From that standpoint reaping your spoils is very appealing.

take cutting wood on a Saturday as an example…most folks I work with don’t do anything at my age other than golf…that is a straight up expense as a hobby. I cut and split wood as a hobby but I also get some benefit in winter financially and from a personal pride standpoint. The duffers, they spend a fair amount of their wage for the pleasure of sucking at golf…literally they are paying someone else to cut that lawn plus they have to pay for their heat in winter. I have a sick enjoyment of cutting wood it’s relaxing…so my hobby doesn’t spend the greens fee plus I save on the winter heat…so from that standpoint I save a fair bit of money compared to my peers and have some pride (mentally rewarding). To me those are soils but I am limited to that on weekends.

In my case from what I have read I am not as advanced as you, however from being able to reap the spoils of self labor I am envious for sure in what you are doing. Great job and good luck.. From this month I have 25 yr anniversary with same fairly large corp…pay is decent but the company is not same company I hired in to. Never the less I have done well for myself. However the only time I reap the spoils is on weekend. Financially I am good now and could quit whenever I like despite not being of retirement age. My struggle is reprogramming my mind to start draining savings/investments…I just was not raised that way. I was raised to put percentage to savings/investments from very early age and then pay bills with what’s left…I was never really trained to spend…I am a tight ass (frugal may be better word as I will buy what I consider to be an asset) for sure, but not trained to start draining funds without an income. (Dad taught me to squeeze the nickel till the Buffalo shit…so as a result I am am not struggling).

I currently am trying to buy yet another property and that is currently preventing me from reaping my spoils. Unfortunately that means I will have another mortgage until I take the leap…even when I look at the math I know I am not being rational to carry a second mortgage / property (which is where I will move to in retirement) but I am not programmed to spend while not earning paycheck.

good luck with the mindset shift. I am not far behind you

with that my question is when / how decide to take the leap? How train yourself to spend while not saving? Any advice would be appreciated.

PS….congratulations.

It has been a process for sure. My original plan was to work to 62. With the way our defined benefits plan works the payout from that plus what we’ve saved should have been enough to leave then. I knew there was a possibility of leaving earlier if my father passed before I reached 62. If I could bring him back, I’d gladly work to 62, but he passed a little over a year ago.

Always told him I didn’t care if he left me a dime, he owed me nothing, just don’t leave me a mess. So of course, as I pretty much expected, added to what I already had he left me enough to walk out at 57 and a big tangled mess to go with it.

The analysis started with “Do you have enough money to retire?” For me, if I had to cut back on our normal rate of spending I would have kept working. Retiring at 57, wife and I agreed if we could keep income the same drawing off gains and not touch principle I’d leave. We keep our books on Quicken down to the penny so not a tough project to know what we spend. Took the numbers for the past 4 years, during which our son dropped completely off our payroll and we bought an Airstream, the L and associated stuff, a Mule, etc. To keep spending like we are, we need a 2.8% average return to create the requisite income stream. Wife and I also talked about any major expenditures, bucket list items, anything we REALLY wanted to buy or do that would add to our expenses and came up with nothing. All the financial types I spoke to said to figure 4% and I’ve been making well over 4% on investments despite some good years and some bad. So the answer to “Is there enough money” for us was, no guarantees but as best we can figure now, yes.

As mentioned in a prior post, no changes to our health insurance until I turn 65 so that wasn’t a consideration.

Wife doesn’t work a job, so coordinating her retirement wasn’t an issue.

I spoke to probably a dozen people I know well and who know me well that are already retired from The Company. Guys that retired from 56 to 67 years old. They all had different financial or personal reasons for when they left but there were a few things that were consistent:

• If you ain’t got enough money to do what you need to do, keep working.
• If you don’t hate what you do and don’t have enough money to do what you want to do, keep working.
• If you don’t have a plan for what to do post retirement other than sit on your ass, keep working until you have a plan.
• For the work I’m in (and all those guys were in) every one of them said if you meet the above criteria, GET OUT while you still have your health and sanity. Even people in the same industry can’t really understand what it is to work for The Company doing what I do. Some things better and some worse than competitors but definitely unique.
• Not one of them had a minute of regret. A couple wished they left earlier. None wished they’d stayed longer.
• All of them told me past that it’s hard to explain but “you’ll know when its time”.

Talking to a few people who know me, know what I do and how I do it; people who have walked away already; that was helpful. A couple of them know me well enough that they could tell from talking it out that if I had the money to do it, it was time and they told me that.

I’d say what it is I do (it’s not really all that interesting) but if I say enough to be reasonably identifiable it makes me subject to the Company social media standards and that makes participation in a site like this virtually impossible. Maybe it will come up some time I’m officially retired.

Good luck with whatever analysis you need to do to figure out your situation. Past “do you have enough money” probably the best advice I got was “you’ll know when it’s time”.

 

[GrizBota]

Plot twist on this thread... Yea, I'm in the same boat... plenty of money and nothing I *need* to spend money on. I'm cheap and still look at what's for free on Craig's list... You never know when a bargain will pop up. I could buy new but it's the hunt, I'm here for...

I have no children but have a wife that will out live me for sure (at least that's the plan). Her family all lived very long lives... my pension will support her for her life time.

When to jump? When it cost you... A dear friend was worried about this, I was first inline to take his job but he never thought he would have enough money to retire. Long story short, he worked 40 years and retired at 125% of his salary.

This means a couple of things, 1) His take home pay after he retired was $900 MORE per month. But that also meant that last year he worked, he paid the State $900/month just for the joy to come to work.

He lost money by working (unless he lives a long life to recover the costs) - Look at what you get in retirement vs. what your net take home pay is.

For me, getting about $3/hour was not worth it... Once Social Security kicks in (6 months) I'ii be getting way more money than I was working... yes, I'm taking it at 62... not sure how long I will have to be able to get my money back.

That's for another thread... or is it?

Life is short, eat desert first. Sort of…once you’ve got enough laid away to take care of the future.

I was working for 33 cents on the dollar. I could say home and do nothing and get 2/3 of my base pay OR work 100% of the available work hours in a month and get the remaining 1/3 of my salary. I might be slow and cheap, but not that cheap. So I got a gig working part time at a much greater hourly rate, have twice as many days off and gross significantly more. I was fortunate to have/pursue a “niche” career path that very few make to three or four decades of experience in, but all of the niche firms want the well experienced folks and are willing to pay accordingly. That supply and demand thing I suppose.

As to training myself to spend, well my wife’s got that covered pretty well. But I really have no intention of touching my (our) private retirement funds for at least 5 years. I know it will be pretty hard for me once I start actually pays the bills out of those savings. Like you said, on paper it all looks quite reasonable, but I’ll probably never be 100% comfortable spending saved money.

As to SS, drawing at 62 seems reasonable if one doesn’t think they will make it to their 80s (or whatever the cross over age is).

Based on the image below and age 67 being 100% benefit, presuming one can accurately guess their terminal age, I did some math:
1) about age 82.5 if you draw at 70
2) about age 80 if you draw at 65
3) about age 78 if you draw at 62.

It’s not that big of a window, less than 5 years. Kind of an extreme case, but if one starting drawing at 62 thinking they’d make it to 75, but actually made it to 90, they would have collected about 79% of what they would have if they waited to draw at 70 and made it to 90.

I have some friends about a decade and an half ahead of me and they are talking about deferring taking it until the latest age possible (70, I believe). But they do have a pretty decent family trust (my impression) in addition to a lifetime of making good financial decisions.

Here’s a nice little SS bulletin I found that demonstrates the effect of drawing early (62), on time (67), or late (70).

SS Bulletin- Impact of drawing early or late

Here’s the graph that is the meat and potatoes of the situation. Looks to be a simple mathematical problem to assume various terminal ages, and making a decision from there. Obviously there probably complexities, such as working and drawing at the same time in the early end of the equation.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Congratulations on your retirement!

I retired last year and it was the best thing I could have done for my health. Had a crazy stress job for 25 years and I hated it.

I still work odd jobs now, and haven't started my SS benefits yet.

The first month after my retirement was "everyday is Saturday ". And sadly, I started drinking by 2pm little by little, and wasted the days away. Thinking "Did I really just retire!" Holy Crap!!!

By the third month I sobered up and realized that my retirement at 60 y/o from That job from hell, probably added a good 10 years to my life. Now it's time to get to work doing what my wife and I want to do.

 

[D2Cat]

You folks getting out of your life's work so young. We have senators who are 90 years old, ill often, even in wheel chairs recovering, who believe they still are productive at their chosen field. They don't/won't quit it's so good!!

 

[Biker1mike]

Males on my side of the family tend to die young. Oldest for the past couple of generations made it to 73.
The females on my wife's side all went well into their 90's.
So, we planned accordingly. I retired early when the money figures were all in the right place, Wife kept working until the job started to stink. She figured she had several decades ahead to have the easy life.
A twist of fate blew all the plans out the door. Within a year of retirement she passed from a freak accident.
Stuff happens and plans change. Grab what you can now as it can all go south in a heart beat !

 

[lynnmor]

I started collecting SS at age 67, nine years ago. I haven't touched a dime of my retirement savings yet, in part because of the massive and planned inflation dumped on us. Perhaps I should have spent down some of that savings by buying things that may be needed, but one needs to wonder what the future holds with the crazy people destroying the economy. We can think that we have good plans but we can't plan on what may be in store for us by others.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Males on my side of the family tend to die young. Oldest for the past couple of generations made it to 73.
The females on my wife's side all went well into their 90's.
So, we planned accordingly. I retired early when the money figures were all in the right place, Wife kept working until the job started to stink. She figured she had several decades ahead to have the easy life.
A twist of fate blew all the plans out the door. Within a year of retirement she passed from a freak accident.
Stuff happens and plans change. Grab what you can now as it can all go south in a heart beat !

Sorry to hear about your wife.

I am in a similar situation as you. Only one male on either side of my family in the past 100 years has made it past 75, so I don't buy green bananas.

I plan for the future for sure, but I tend to live it up a little, and I ain't working even 1 minute longer than I have to.



No one is guaranteed a "tomorrow"

 

[dirtydeed]

NCL - thanks so much for starting this thread. I've found it most interesting as I'm currently struggling with deciding on whether or not to pull the plug as well.

 

[NCL4701]

Males on my side of the family tend to die young. Oldest for the past couple of generations made it to 73.
The females on my wife's side all went well into their 90's.
So, we planned accordingly. I retired early when the money figures were all in the right place, Wife kept working until the job started to stink. She figured she had several decades ahead to have the easy life.
A twist of fate blew all the plans out the door. Within a year of retirement she passed from a freak accident.
Stuff happens and plans change. Grab what you can now as it can all go south in a heart beat !

Sorry for your loss. A pair of close situations also weighed on my mind while considering retiring “early”.

First was a co-worker in an adjacent unit that was ready to go and told his superiors such. He had plans to see his grandkids more routinely and travel the world with his wife since they finally had time. They cut his production requirements and talked him into staying two more years to mentor a bunch of new employees as his unit’s overall experience had dropped drastically. One month from the end of his added two year stint he had a cardiac event, despite no prior issues, and died at work. Could have enjoyed a couple of years, but he never made it out.

Another co-worker who could have retired about three years before this event but “wasn’t sure he wanted to leave early because it just didn’t seem right”. He’d been married 40 years and they were as tight as any 40 year couple I’ve ever met. Had plans to travel, do mission work, and spend time with their grandkids in New York and Colorado. Two of their main hobbies were running marathons and long distance bicycling. Very healthy people in their early 60’s. She went on a girl’s trip to the beach with the female members of her family. Got to feeling poorly so her sister drove her home early. Went to the doctor the next day. Had metastized cancer that was all over her body and was feeling bad because it made it to her brain. A week and a half later, she was dead. Could have had a good three years together to at least get started on those plans but they were all up in smoke. He’s doing well. Lives in Colorado beside his son. Has hiked the Appalachian Trail solo (amazing guy and the smartest person I’ve ever met). But I know it still hurts him that they could have had three years together if he’d left when he could have.

I have zero currently known health issues. Maybe I could work to 62 and have a long retirement after. Or maybe I don’t make it to 59. Nobody knows.

 

[fried1765]

NCL - thanks so much for starting this thread. I've found it most interesting as I'm currently struggling with deciding on whether or not to pull the plug as well.

Even if you are only reasonably sure that you may be able to afford it.......DO IT!
I got divorced at 57.
My job description MANDATED retirement at 60.
I started taking SS ASAP, at age 62.
I have been sucking on the SS nipple for 21 years.
It is not a lot, but makes up about 20% of my current total.

 

[Outnumbered]

NCL - thanks so much for starting this thread. I've found it most interesting as I'm currently struggling with deciding on whether or not to pull the plug as well.

I agree.......I had been on the fence for the last year or so myself. But like NCL, lost a brother-in-law and several other people/friends that were in their 50's and 60's. My middle management job has become more stressful with leadership that I do not agree with. To top it off I realized my pension and SS alone would cover my budgeted expenses. This leaves me with a decent 401 to feather things out as I see fit and/or pass on to my daughters to help them.

 

[Quick]

Money issues aside, the absolute main thing to do in retirement is to STAY ACTIVE. Congrats on the upcoming new adventure!

 

[Biker1mike]

I agree.......I had been on the fence for the last year or so myself. But like NCL, lost a brother-in-law and several other people/friends that were in their 50's and 60's. My middle management job has become more stressful with leadership that I do not agree with. To top it off I realized my pension and SS alone would cover my budgeted expenses. This leaves me with a decent 401 to feather things out as I see fit and/or pass on to my daughters to help them.

Yup, there is the rub. How long do you plan out the cash flow ? My physical assets will be split equally between the kids. The 401K is willed to the grandkids' college or age 21.
I told the kids that my 401K plan is for it to run dry the day after I pass. Now if I could just figure out when that will be.
Party hardy, live mellow but happy, or spend the last decade in a cardboard box under the overpass.

 

[NCL4701]

I agree.......I had been on the fence for the last year or so myself. But like NCL, lost a brother-in-law and several other people/friends that were in their 50's and 60's. My middle management job has become more stressful with leadership that I do not agree with. To top it off I realized my pension and SS alone would cover my budgeted expenses. This leaves me with a decent 401 to feather things out as I see fit and/or pass on to my daughters to help them.

Sounds like your and my current employment situations are parallel to the point I looked at your location to make sure you and I don’t work together.

I got my ideal job, the job I’d still be doing if I could, in 1992. The title still exists but the job changed. A lot. I saw it changing into something I had no interest in so I took the chance to move to management. Same thing is happening now. My title hasn’t changed but the job is changing into something want no part of. The job I signed up for 18 years ago required managing a group of personnel and the work for which we were responsible. There was quite a lot of autonomy, authority, and commensurate accountability. Over the past couple of years, slowly at first but moving faster now, it’s turning into a line boss rather than a manager. People above me issue directives I’m supposed to implement and enforce. Thoughts and opinions not needed or welcome.

Our VP, a friend I’ve worked with in various capacities for 32 years, recently asked me what I thought about some of the changes. I told him the manager v line boss thing and that I had no interest in line boss. He said he didn’t totally disagree but thought it was necessary. Told him I wasn’t sure I disagreed but I was leaving anyway and would leave sooner if he wanted. He laughed and asked if I was stealing money. Told him no. He said, “In that case, keep your hands off the women and keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll make it to the end of the year. I’ve helped put a bull in a squeeze chute but it’s been a long time and I’m not doing it again when there only 4 months left.”

I need to leave. And I’m thankful I can without needing to pick up another job. Sounds like you’re in a similar spot. You have the option of walking away. And that’s a good thing.

 

[Poohbear]

Dec 10 TH will be our 8th year of retirement( I was 66 & Wife was 67). I'm actually twice retired as I took an early retirement package from Bell tel .
Was in business for ourselves 31 yrs & my Wife thought I would never stop . Well life got in the way for my Wife as she was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 2012. Got me to thinking very different.
We got our plans & started getting our 2 businesses ready to sale which we ended up selling to our lead tech.
We've traveled, worked on the acerage etc. just about finished our new house which is setup for her . She was slowly going downhill until last year when she made a big deteriation.
What I see is don't keep going to work for works sake. Live for yourself & family as quickly as you can because so many things can change rather quickly . Try not to be old & just talk about what things you could have done.

 

[Gary Olson]

We had a plan, we were working our plan, then SHTF plan.
We were maintaining our elder care responsibilities till COVID hit -- we started burning vacation time at a furious rate.
Five months into COVID, after 5 years of looking and a couple of fails, we bought our retirement place.
Seven months into COVID DIE policies ramped up. Also, the (unwise and ignorant) plan to merge my unique group into a larger group was launched. The place had changed from when I started and I no longer recognized my employer.
I quit during the initial merge Zoom meeting -- 18 months before my pension vested. She retired.
We did the math and could use savings till she could collect SS; and 36 months till my pension fully vested.
We have had unexpected repairs and maintenance on this place. Bidenomics aren't doing us any favors.

But, we don't regret it one moment. I learned to use a penny till only the chaff was left (wheat penny); living on savings feels strange. Buying a Kubota on credit with no visible income is strange.

But, I have time to do my own maintenance; instead of managing maintenance for a company and paying for residential maintenance. I have time to keep the truck running to my specifications instead of the dealers. I get to read complex books for fun instead of to write inane purchasing justifications for bureaucrats.

Part of that change included leaving an expensive metroplex and moving to a rural county with a small county seat. And much smaller expenses in many contexts. We can leave anytime and drive half the distance to either of our elder care locations. And the madness consuming the larger cities just doesn't percolate out here. The Internet allows keeping in touch long distance much easier than in previous generations.

A couple of friends who have visited can't fathom this type of lifestyle. We don't regret the change.