Replaced solenoid and still won't start

[Marianne]

Hi guys,
Sure could use some help. My ZD did what appears to be a common problem and would not shut off. I turned off the fuel and it slowly died. When I tried to restart it, it would not turn over, nor did it try to. I just replaced the solenoid and tried again. No go. The battery is brand new, but hooked it up with jumper cables in the event that I had left the key on. I also checked the fuses, specifically 20a, and they are fine. I am at a loss. Thx for any advice you can offer to me.

 

[BruceP]

If you run a diesel 'dry' of fuel, you may have to bleed the injectors to get it restarted.
... or are you suggesting that the starter does not crank the engine over?

 

[RCW]

Marianne - - as Bruce asked, does it turn over (crank) now, but won't start, or does it not turn over?

Very important aspect of troubleshooting the problem.

 

[Marianne]

It does not turn over. What is interesting, is that when I replaced the solenoid and turned the key, the lights were very bright and the fuel gauge registered. When I turned the key, I heard a slight sound, as if there was a connection. I was elated, and thought that perhaps I needed to charge the battery more, and life would be good. Then the lights dulled, the fuel gauge did not register, and there it sits. When I picked up the new solenoid at the Kubota parts department, and told the parts person what I was dealing with, she asked me if my original problem was that my tractor would not turn off. I said 'yes" and she she said it was definitely the solenoid as this happens quite frequently. But now I am wondering if it could be a safety issue? For instance, when it wouldn't stop, I got off of the seat, thinking that that would shut it down. Heck no, it just kept running. So is there a safety sensor or something that I need to find? Again, thanks so much, I am no mechanic, I just have a horse farm and a lot of stuff that breaks.

 

[RCW]

Take this all with a grain of salt....I know absolutely ZERO about zero turn mowers...

I'm not joking there...never even been near one. We'll try to get some very basic questions/problems answered.

First for guys/gals smarter than me, exactly what model is your mower? How old is it, # of hours?

Battery is brand new, just put in?

You replaced a fuel stop solenoid after it wouldn't shut down earlier?

A lack of turn over condition suggests two issues - - first is a safety switch, the second possibly an electrical/battery issue.

You say you heard a "slight sound," all the dash came to life, then everything dimmed while turning the switch? What you saw and heard is important, as it may take the safety switches out of the equation.

My gut (note my first line...I know nothing) is it's electrical, and not related to your stop solenoid replacement.

I would suspect:

1. The switch itself - why it wouldn't shut off at first, and again for the dash to light and go dim.
2. The battery or it's connections, especially the ground. Brand new batteries are often undercharged, and sometimes prone to quick failure.

I would NOT start throwing ANY parts at it based on my amateurish assessment.

If you're able, have the battery load tested to ensure it is indeed "good." New doesn't always cut it.....That will at least take that out of the equation.

I would also recommend the batteries connections, both at the battery and their terminal connections, are "clean bright and tight" as my buddy 85Hokie would say.

This especially applies to the the ground connections at the battery and where it connects to the frame of the mower.

We have some savvy guys here with proper troubleshooting of electrical systems....I'm not one of them...

Welcome to OTT!

 

[RCW]

when it wouldn't stop, I got off of the seat, thinking that that would shut it down. Heck no, it just kept running. So is there a safety sensor or something that I need to find?

I missed this point before....just highlighting it so others don't miss it.

I've typically known a seat switch to cause a shut-down or a no-crank, not a no-shut down problem....maybe that's a potential culprit, or the wiring connection to the culprit....

Again - more analysis required before throwing parts at it.

 

[Marianne]

Take this all with a grain of salt....I know absolutely ZERO about zero turn mowers...

I'm not joking there...never even been near one. We'll try to get some very basic questions/problems answered.

First for guys/gals smarter than me, exactly what model is your mower? How old is it, # of hours? Battery is brand new, just put in?

You replaced a fuel stop solenoid after it wouldn't shut down earlier?

A lack of turn over condition suggests two issues - - first is a safety switch, the second possibly an electrical/battery issue.

You say you heard a "slight sound," all the dash came to life, then everything dimmed while turning the switch? What you saw and heard is important, as it may take the safety switches out of the equation.

My gut (note my first line...I know nothing) is it's electrical, and not related to your stop solenoid replacement.

I would suspect:

1. The switch itself - why it wouldn't shut off at first, and again for the dash to light and go dim.
2. The battery or it's connections, especially the ground. Brand new batteries are often undercharged, and sometimes prone to quick failure.

I would NOT start throwing ANY parts at it based on my amateurish assessment.

If you're able, have the battery load tested to ensure it is indeed "good." New doesn't always cut it.....That will at least take that out of the equation.

I would also recommend the batteries connections, both at the battery and their terminal connections, are "clean bright and tight" as my buddy 85Hokie would say.

This especially applies to the the ground connections at the battery and where it connects to the frame of the mower.

We have some savvy guys here with proper troubleshooting of electrical systems....I'm not one of them...

Welcome to OTT!

Thanks for your queries. I have a commercial grade mower, a diesel, ZD323, year 2014. The battery is just a few days old. When I replaced the battery, the engine started right up, and I mowed about 6 acres. No problems. When I returned to my barn is when the key would not turn the mower off. After researching this issue, I discovered that many ZD323 owners have had this same problem, and it was traced to a faulty solenoid. However, after replacing it, and the mower still not switching on, I am now seizing on a faulty switch or the seat issue. Since I replaced the battery myself, I know that the terminals are clean, and I checked the connections again today, and they are tight. I keep coming back to the original problem, which is the mower would not shut off, even when I got off of the seat. It is the opposite problem of rising off of the seat, with the blades engaged, and the engine shuts down due to safety. My engine wouldn't shut down, so what - besides the solenoid - would make this occur? The on-off switch? I am just guessing.

 

[Marianne]

If you run a diesel 'dry' of fuel, you may have to bleed the injectors to get it restarted.
... or are you suggesting that the starter does not crank the engine over?

hmm... I was told by Kubota that since the mower is fuel injected, that running it dry wouldn't matter. Do you know differently? thanks! Oh, and no, it does not turn over. Doesn't even try.

 

[i7win7]

Fuel solenoids - some are energized to allow fuel to flow, others like the BX are energized to stop fuel flow. How does your's operate.

On a BX if battery runs down or dies while running it will not shut off.

Your battery should measure 12.5 volts - if not charge it - if it does clean battery cables on both ends (frame and starter solenoid)

 

[Russell King]

You can search for posts from Dave_eng like this one

L3830GST with 540 hours and a one year old battery has been refusing to start.

Insert key, turn on, put shuttle in neutral, wait for glo plug click signal, turn key to start = nothing, no noise, no start most of the time. Occasionally starts as normal. What say ye, brain trust? Thanks.

www.orangetractortalks.com

He gives explicit advice and direction on how to bypass all safety switches to see if it cranks over.

Please DO NOT try it if you’re not incredibly careful and safe- it is a dangerous thing to do so please don’t hurt yourself or do this when no one is there to help you if you do get hurt.

 

[Marianne]

You can search for posts from Dave_eng like this one

L3830GST with 540 hours and a one year old battery has been refusing to start.

Insert key, turn on, put shuttle in neutral, wait for glo plug click signal, turn key to start = nothing, no noise, no start most of the time. Occasionally starts as normal. What say ye, brain trust? Thanks.

www.orangetractortalks.com

He gives explicit advice and direction on how to bypass all safety switches to see if it cranks over.

Please DO NOT try it if you’re not incredibly careful and safe- it is a dangerous thing to do so please don’t hurt yourself or do this when no one is there to help you if you do get hurt.

Marianne - - as Bruce asked, does it turn over (crank) now, but won't start, or does it not turn over?

Very important aspect of troubleshooting the problem.

It does not turn over. When I first replaced the solenoid, the lights burned bright, the fuel gauge worked, and I heard a small sound - as if the battery, with a bit more charging, would make the starter turn over. Alas, I charged it further, only for the lights to weaken, the fuel gauge quit working, and no further sounds. I am so perplexed.

 

[Russell King]

I understood that it will not spin the engine. Did you read post #3 of the linked post to see a way to see if the starter would crank tractor? You can also remove the starter and have it tested at a auto parts store.

And exactly what solenoid was replaced? Fuel shut off solenoid or starter solenoid? I don’t think you have said exactly which one.

 

[D2Cat]

Someone has probably suggested this, but if not....remove both positive and negative battery cables. Clean the battery post and the inside of the cable clamps. Remove the other end of the battery cables. One will be at the tractor frame somewhere. Remove that bolt and clean the cable and the metal to a shine, then reclamp the negative cable. Try starting the tractor now. It would be a good idea to remove the positive end off of the starter solenoid, but you have to be careful, using a wrench to hold in inside nut as you remove the nut holding the cable, so you don't destroy the solenoid. If the tractor start with the other 3 ends cleaned, I'd leave that positive alone.

 

[Marianne]

I understood that it will not spin the engine. Did you read post #3 of the linked post to see a way to see if the starter would crank tractor? You can also remove the starter and have it tested at a auto parts store.

And exactly what solenoid was replaced? Fuel shut off solenoid or starter solenoid? I don’t think you have said exactly which one.

I did read about the screwdriver trick but don't have a long enough screwdriver to do it. I will see if I can remove the starter and get it tested. Thanks for that tip. As for the solenoid, I replaced the engine shut off solenoid.

 

[Marianne]

Someone has probably suggested this, but if not....remove both positive and negative battery cables. Clean the battery post and the inside of the cable clamps. Remove the other end of the battery cables. One will be at the tractor frame somewhere. Remove that bolt and clean the cable and the metal to a shine, then reclamp the negative cable. Try starting the tractor now. It would be a good idea to remove the positive end off of the starter solenoid, but you have to be careful, using a wrench to hold in inside nut as you remove the nut holding the cable, so you don't destroy the solenoid. If the tractor start with the other 3 ends cleaned, I'd leave that positive alone.

Well, this is news to me, I didn't know that there is an "other end" to the battery cables that connects to the tractor frame.
So you are suggesting that I remove the positive end off of the solenoid and then leave it off? I get "how" to do this, but not why. Would you please explain further? Thanks so much.

 

[D2Cat]

No. You can not leave either battery cable disconnected and try to get your tractor going. I'd suggest cleaning the negative battery cable at both ends. The end where it bolts to the tractor frame is critical because it is most neglected.

So remove both cables at the battery. Clean the battery post with a wire brush until the lead shines. Clean the inside of both battery clamps the same way. (There are battery clamp/post wire brushes that fit into the clamps, if you don't have one. Any auto parts store will have them for $2, or use a file like you use to sharpen a chain saw.) Remove the negative cable at the tractor frame and clean real good with emery cloth, file or anything else you have to get all rust and crap off the area. Clean that end of that cable also.

Attach the cables back to the battery after three ends are cleaned. Try starting the tractor now. It may start and you won't need to remove the end of the red positive wire at the starter solenoid. It's not a usual problem because it gets more attention then the ground wire at the frame by most equipment owners!

 

[D2Cat]

I went back and read through the thread. Sounds like you may have replace the solenoid on the starter. If that is correct you do not need to fiddle with that connection at all. I'm guessing it is clean enough. The ground at the machine frame is the critical one that gets neglected. Get that clean and you may have the power you've been looking for. If that ground is a bad electrical connection, things may work and they many not, and they can be erratic and difficult to isolate. That is why the ground is SO important.

 

[Marianne]

I went back and read through the thread. Sounds like you may have replace the solenoid on the starter. If that is correct you do not need to fiddle with that connection at all. I'm guessing it is clean enough. The ground at the machine frame is the critical one that gets neglected. Get that clean and you may have the power you've been looking for. If that ground is a bad electrical connection, things may work and they many not, and they can be erratic and difficult to isolate. That is why the ground is SO important.

Thank you so much for the clearly written instructions. I will do exactly as you say and will let you know what happens. I spent the morning taking two wheelbarrows apart, intending on switching frames and buckets, only to realize that they are not standardized. So now I am going to the dump before I have another go at the tractor. Thanks again!

 

[Russell King]

One thing that you need to look out for while cleaning the battery terminals and posts is not to remove too much material when cleaning them. The clamps do adjust to tighten on the posts but eventually the ends of the clamps touch and won’t tighten any longer.

Just don’t get too ambitious in the cleaning and you should be fine, D2Cat just was enthusiastic in his directions to clean the terminals.