Removing hardened 19mm bolt from cast iron L2800

[zake1000]

Hi,
I have a Kubota L2800 and I am trying to remove a 19mm hardened bolt that threads into the cast iron (what I think is cast iron) axle/casing. It is a large diameter hardened bolt, it holds the bottom of the ROPS bracket to the casing.

I started by trying out just a 1/2" wrench, from there went to using PB Blast, and trying a 1/2" air wrench, but can't get it loose. I've tried an impact drill (air), tried heating it with a small propane torch, and tapping on the bolt after heating to try and loosen up the rusted threads.

If the bolt went through instead of threading into the casing, I could cut the head and try removing it, but the rest of the bolt is hidden inside the casing. I'm worried about drilling it out since I don't want any shavings to get trapped inside (and I am worried that it is a hardened bolt).

Any suggestions as to what I can try would be greatly appreciated.

I've read that using torches (which I don't currently have), can cause a problem in the iron since it is not solid, but hollow, making the wall too thin, and that it would wreck the threads in the iron.

Thank you

 

[Jim L.]

Sometimes it takes quite awhile for penetrating oil to work.

You might go to a 6 pt socket, not a 12 pt, so you don't strip the head.

Use a pipe slipped over your wrench to gain leverage - careful not to bust the head off.

It pays not to get in a hurry or trying to finish before supper.

 

[Tooljunkie]

I dont think you can get it hot enough,and heating bolt will make it impossible to drill out later. Oxy-acetelyne would heat it enough. Propane heat may work,give it a good long heat, then cool with water. Repeat a few times and soak with penetrating oil.

The fine thread makes those bolts difficult to move.the bracket under bolt is sucking away the much needed heat. Try around on the casting as well.

As mentioned above, dont rush it.
I have had to remove many difficult bolts in my lifetime, it went in, it should come out.

 

[zake1000]

Thank you very much for your help. I was able to get the two bolts off. It took about 1.5 hours for one and two heating/cooling cycles, and 3 hours for the other and about 5 cycles, but they finally came off.
Taking rusted bolts off has always been a bit intimidating, but no longer so.

 

[Tooljunkie]

In the shop i used to work, i was designated the broken bolt remover. Two nearly identical trucks, i had three broken bolts to fix, co worker had none.
Both needed exhaust manifold gaskets.
Took me 4 hrs, took him 7.

From tiny bolts in turbochargers to massive bolts in d6 caterpillar crawlers. Been there done that.

Arm yourself with more techniques and methods and your skills improve with it.

Glad you solved it

 

[mn4x4]

So I am curious - in this instance, would one of those inductive heaters help to remove the bolt? Something like the Bolt Buster® Magnetic Induction Heater Tool?

They seem like a neat tool, and I'd love a good excuse to add one to the toolbox *IF* they really add value and aren't just a gimmick?

What say you, oh wise ones?

 

[Stubbyie]

Two comments to this good posting:

Concerning the reluctant bolt, did you try Kroil penetrating oil? Available form KanoLabs online. Best stuff ever used. If don't have some, get some for next time.

Spouse dug some up thirty years ago from an oilfield supply house and has saved us literally days taking apart old single-cylinder engines. Available areosol and liquid squirt type. We use about a gallon a year in our small shop. It doesn't take much and works when nothing else will.

Pertaining to inductive heaters. I've seen them used on exhaust parts and lug nuts. Magic: push the button and metal parts turns red hot. Serious Car Hobby Guy friend says they're the best thing he's ever used. Have to have a selection of different sizes 'coils' to fit down over the nut or bolt head. Not cheap and would love to have one but can't quite work out the justification to own one.

I too would like to hear from users and / or owners.

Please post back your experiences so we may all learn.

 

[GWD]

Here is the results of a test of penetrating oil to consider:

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants
with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from
a "scientifically rusted" environment.

*Penetrating oil .......... Average load*
None ........................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better
than any commercial product in this one particular test.

 

[redfernclan]

If you snap the head off, try drilling it out and then use an easy out. DO NOT BREAK THE EASY OUT! They are made of very hard stuff.
The most critical thing is making sure the hole is in the middle and drilled all of the way through the broken bolt. If the easy out does not work, get a oxy-acetylene torch and heat the bolt, not the cast iron. go in circles and get what you can see or the bolt a dull red, then stop. squirt a little water in the hole if you want to speed things up and shrink the bolt a bit. Then use the easy out after a bit more penetrant AFTER everything has cooled down to the touch. My instructor in College taught me this one while getting the plugs out of the oil galleys of an engine block before hot tanking. Most had been in there for the life of the engine and were pretty stubborn. He said the trick was that the bolt gets hot quicker than the cast iron and when it expands, it breaks the bond that the rust has made. Adding water will shrink the bolt a bit and pull it away from the cast iron walls, then letting it cool before trying the easy out lets it get as small as it can. Has never failed me yet.
Used it alot spending ten years as a heavy equipment mechanic at a saw mill working on some well used equipment.

 

[85Hokie]

Two comments to this good posting:

Concerning the reluctant bolt, did you try Kroil penetrating oil? Available form KanoLabs online. Best stuff ever used. If don't have some, get some for next time.

Spouse dug some up thirty years ago from an oilfield supply house and has saved us literally days taking apart old single-cylinder engines. Available areosol and liquid squirt type. We use about a gallon a year in our small shop. It doesn't take much and works when nothing else will.

Pertaining to inductive heaters. I've seen them used on exhaust parts and lug nuts. Magic: push the button and metal parts turns red hot. Serious Car Hobby Guy friend says they're the best thing he's ever used. Have to have a selection of different sizes 'coils' to fit down over the nut or bolt head. Not cheap and would love to have one but can't quite work out the justification to own one.

I too would like to hear from users and / or owners.

Please post back your experiences so we may all learn.

Stubbie,

I couple of years ago on another tractor sight, someone had some "scientific" proof.......that a 50-50 mix of acetone and ATF was better than Kroil and PB blaster......some swear on that mix! I have never tried it, use PB the most, cause it is what I have around! Always heard that kroil is good stuff too.

Here is some info on that test.....

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-200247.html

 

[D2Cat]

Two post before you this has been posted. Read first, type second, saves time.

 

[85Hokie]

Two post before you this has been posted. Read first, type second, saves time.

well sometimes the post is read and stays up....time passes and one get to finish a thought! Sometime I will walk away mid sentence ( the wife calls) and bullya....hell i dont get back to finish for an hour!

 

[FTG-05]

Another way I've heard of loosening a bolt/nut is to heat it up not quite red hot, then hit it with candle wax. The wax is supposed to be wicked in, breaking the rust interface. Any truth to the this?

 

[2458n]

With PB blaster @4 dollars a can, I have gone to the atf and acetone in a trigger type oil can. Put it on the day before you need it and things go pretty well. Currently soaking two bolts on a Nissan gas tank.

 

[coachgeo]

The idea posted earlier of brushing on the ATF followed by doing the same with the Acetone sounds interesting. (or visa versa, or with two small spray bottles? or bottle and brush orr?)

Here is to hoping someone who has these two products will experement with this.

 

[OldeEnglish]

If you snap the head off, try drilling it out and then use an easy out. DO NOT BREAK THE EASY OUT! They are made of very hard stuff.
The most critical thing is making sure the hole is in the middle and drilled all of the way through the broken bolt. If the easy out does not work, get a oxy-acetylene torch and heat the bolt, not the cast iron. go in circles and get what you can see or the bolt a dull red, then stop. squirt a little water in the hole if you want to speed things up and shrink the bolt a bit. Then use the easy out after a bit more penetrant AFTER everything has cooled down to the touch. My instructor in College taught me this one while getting the plugs out of the oil galleys of an engine block before hot tanking. Most had been in there for the life of the engine and were pretty stubborn. He said the trick was that the bolt gets hot quicker than the cast iron and when it expands, it breaks the bond that the rust has made. Adding water will shrink the bolt a bit and pull it away from the cast iron walls, then letting it cool before trying the easy out lets it get as small as it can. Has never failed me yet.
Used it alot spending ten years as a heavy equipment mechanic at a saw mill working on some well used equipment.

I've been there and done that with an easy out, once that breaks, it's not so easy! I do a lot of work on large fire pumps for fire sprinkler systems, typically with them everything rusts. One time I snapped two bolts holding the pump packing seals in so I went to the easy out. Snapped that off and I thought I was screwed. Tried every drill bit I had and the easy out would burn them right up. Finally, I went to the van and broke out a small Hilti hammer drill as my last option. I put that to the easy out with a carbide concrete bit and it ripped through the easy out like butter. I couldn't believe it but it worked. I tried just using the drill setting on the hilti but it needed the hammer to drill through it. I personally like Marvels Mystery Oil, but I will definitely try the ATF mixture suggested. Some say marvels is ATF fluid but I don't know for sure. I'm jealous, it sounds like a lot of you guys are nicely setup in a shop, I unfortunately am always stuck in the field with limited equipment.

 

[D2Cat]

I use ATF and acetone in a 50/50 mix and put it in a large syringe I use for cattle. Put drops exactly where you need them. Works excellent.

 

[Tooljunkie]

The inductive heater is a very handy tool. Will heat the bolt til it glows. And fast. The local body shop has one .saw it in action many times. Its probably worn out and replaced by now. Was tempted to buy one, but plasma torch was higher on my list.

 

[skeets]

FTG I was thinking the same thing where is Captain Candlewax when you need him,, (old joke on here)

 

[ShaunRH]

For me it's all about patience. If I know I have a stubborn bolt, and the time, I'll PB it every day for a week. The next weekend, the bolt backs right out no matter how rusted it was.

You can use heat with cast iron, but DO NOT USE COLD AFTER HEAT!! You have incredibly high odds of cracking the cast iron. Cast iron must slow cool. The idea behind heating the bolt is to have it swell and break the rust bonds between the threads and cast iron. You only heat the bolt. Put a heat resistant cloth or cover on it after you've heated it and let it cool down for a half hour. Then put more penetrant oil. It will flow into the newly created 'cracks' in the rust bonds. Wait another half hour and it should budge and back out.

I found a top-link on my Dad's ranch that was caked in rust, bore and everything, so bad it looked like scrap metal. My brother and I used the technique of heat and penetrant and was able to break it entirely loose, dirt and all. The link is back in service on an Oliver 1265, we keep it lubed up and it works fine.