Regard to synthetic hydraulic oils and engine oils vs. Standard oils

[BAP]

My Bobcat has a few leaks so I use cheap stuff in it. I hate it during cold weather trying to get it warmed up. Poor thing sounds about as stiff as I feel most of the time.

Bulldog, what's cold weather in Georgia? 50 degrees? It isn't cold until 15w-40 motor oil pours out of the oil can in chunks.

 

[85Hokie]

Bulldog, what's cold weather in Georgia? 50 degrees? It isn't cold until 15w-40 motor oil pours out of the oil can in chunks.

BAP.....if'n I see that cold.............shyt.............I am staying INSIDE!!!!

COLD and OLD may have a lot in common...........but not anymore with me!!

OLDER I get, the colder the outside gets..........now how does that work?

 

[RCW]

Bulldog, what's cold weather in Georgia? 50 degrees? It isn't cold until 15w-40 motor oil pours out of the oil can in chunks.

Guess that was my thought with T6 at 5w-40.

My attached garage is usually above freezing, except for cold snaps.

I did not put a block heater in it, but I'm okay with that.

When it's COLD, my starts might be 20F, but 5w is SO nice compared to 15w.

If it was stored in a colder spot - block heater it would have.

 

[twomany]

I like the comments that the sound from the hydrostatic unit changed when switching lube fluid.

How can one tell by the sound if the change is good or bad?

I mean people like different things. especially when it comes to sound (music) ;-)

If it sounds "happy" that's good? Illogical!

 

[RCW]

How can one tell by the sound if the change is good or bad?

When I changed mine, guessing HST whine was reduced by 50%...that was at 38 hours.

For me, less noise equals GOOD!

For back-story - apparently the BX first service interval used to call for the HST fluid to be drained, HST screen cleaned, and filter replaced at 50 hours, then every 400 (?) after that.

Now, I think it's change filter only at 50, then dump it at 200, new fluid/filter and clean screen. Then 400 hours after that.

I chose to use the service interval from before, since I did notice a lot of whine.

At 4 years old/250 hours, I'm noticing more whine in high-range. Not excessive, but I hear it.

Thinking I'll dump it again this fall. Bet it will make it run more quiet.

Just my $0.02. YMMV

 

[twomany]

I smile

To your ears, the change in sound is good. But of course, that is entirely subjective and in fact, may be "bad" for internal parts (not that I believe that to be the case).

I'm saying we humans base our maintenance decisions on such soft impressions and intangibles.

It's either "the factory knows best, and I use only factory branded materials, or "I use the very best synthetic long life high dollar etc. etc. (and so fly in the face of the "factory recommendation". A strange bunch are "hobbyists".


"Better, is the mortal enemy of "good enough". '=)

eta,

Is that 50% whine reduction in decibels? A log scale you know ;-)

 

[OlFerguson]

Ever consider what the manual says in the maintenance section. My oil gets changed every 250 hours nothing more . Fuel filters get changed every second oil change... it has to be that way

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I like the comments that the sound from the hydrostatic unit changed when switching lube fluid.

It indeed does change the sound, and it is indeed a good thing, if for nothing else ones hearing.
It has little to nothing to do with anything more than it just sounds better, wear difference is negligible between the 2 fluids.

 

[Bulldog]

Bulldog, what's cold weather in Georgia? 50 degrees? It isn't cold until 15w-40 motor oil pours out of the oil can in chunks.

I'm sure you have much worse but we get a few cold spells. I think we has a few single digit days last winter but not to many. A couple years ago I remember -11 and since I'm on my tractor feeding hay almost every day during the winter I need good cold weather fluid.

How bad does it get up your way?

 

[Joisey]

Syn makes your wallet lighter.....

I'm a bracket racer (drag racing). IF synthetic engine oil was so great, it would show up on a time slip, or at the end of a long season at engine and trans freshen-up time. I haven't seen any difference in either.

Most people don't even know enough about "synthetic" engine oils. Base stocks. Polymers. Everything you read online is posted by advertising companies, or people who want to promote a brand or type. To my limited knowledge, only one engine oil shows a big difference and it is synthetically manufactured from ZERO mineral oil stock, but it does not last very long. The molecular content is basically ripped apart by heat and friction a LOT faster than mineral base stock. And the biggest thing about this fluid is that it's about $25/quart the last time I checked-and I'm told that is what it costs the manufacturer to make, bottle, ship it...in other words they break even. Made for road race bikes.

I know this post is six years old, but I just wanted to comment on what you wrote.

I have a good friend that raced dirt bikes for Honda. He raced in two classes, 500cc two stroke and 500 cc four stroke. Honday paid for everything as long as he held up his end of the bargain and won.

Every two months he had to replace the cam, cylinder head and cam followers on the 500 four stroke, along with usual wear parts such as the piston and rings. He used Honda's best oil, but due to the extreme punishment the oil would only last so long. He didn't care, as Honda was footing the bill. But pulling the engine to replace the worn parts took time and racing for Honda wasn't the only thing in his life that he had to do.

Unknown to Honda, he began using Mobil 1 synthetic oil in the bike. Now he discovered that the bike shifted easier and didn't stick in gear after prolonged top gear runs. When he pulled the engine down for inspection two months later he found no wear on the cams, cylinder head or for that matter, any of the usually worn parts. The synthetic oil was changed after every race, the same as when he used the Honda oil. He managed to get one full season before the cam or related components showed any wear.

Later on he used the Mobil 1 in the clutch of the 500 two stroke and it eliminated the hard shifting when it got hot.

This isn't second hand information. I rented the house to him and used to hang out in the shop that he set up there. The benefits of synthetic oil aren't just a figment of someones imagination. Just like dino oil, no two synthetic oils are equal.

After a fresh rebuild

 

[DustyRusty]

i just used my last bottle of oil, and don't know what to buy next. The shelves used to be full of bottles of oil, but today they are all plastic bottles and they all look alike. Could someone help out an old man with a recommendation?

 

[fried1765]

Synthetics provide wonderful cold weather "start up" qualities.
But,
Nothing that five minutes of warm up doesn't cover.

All the other "attributes of synthetics" are for those who do not wish to change fluids. (extended service life due to additives)

If "engine well being" is a money making addition, I've not seen it.

If you are worrying about the service requirement of any who might inherit your "Synthetic only" lubricated tractor, I've got a 67 year old tractor that says dino oil is good enough!
My kids won't wear it out either!
The "warm and fuzzy" doesn't pay the rent, but heck, do what you want. spend and pay.
It's part of the game, and if it makes you feel right, well, that's what it it's worth!

My Ford 8N is only 73 years old, and has never enjoyed the pleasure of synthetic oil.

 

[fried1765]

i just used my last bottle of oil, and don't know what to buy next. The shelves used to be full of bottles of oil, but today they are all plastic bottles and they all look alike. Could someone help out an old man with a recommendation? View attachment 99417

What brand to buy?
Super Tech !

 

[85Hokie]

My Ford 8N is only 73 years old, and has never enjoyed the pleasure of synthetic oil.

So do you still add a quart of gasoline in the winter as the manual calls for in cold weather?

There are two types of people when it comes to oils - those that use what WAS recommended in the day , and those that use the absolute best that has been tested and improved over the last 50 plus years.

 

[TheOldHokie]

So do you still add a quart of gasoline in the winter as the manual calls for in cold weather?

View attachment 99419



There are two types of people when it comes to oils - those that use what WAS recommended in the day , and those that use the absolute best that has been tested and improved over the last 50 plus years.

My 8N gets nothing but non-detergent thinned with kerosene in the winter and SAE 90 GL1 pure mineral oil the hydraulics. Thats what it was designed for

Dan

 

[fried1765]

So do you still add a quart of gasoline in the winter as the manual calls for in cold weather?

View attachment 99419



There are two types of people when it comes to oils - those that use what WAS recommended in the day , and those that use the absolute best that has been tested and improved over the last 50 plus years.

Nope!
I do not add anything in Winter.
Have not ever been able to find a funnel with a spout that will reach from Florida to New England.

 

[lugbolt]

So do you still add a quart of gasoline in the winter as the manual calls for in cold weather?

View attachment 99419



There are two types of people when it comes to oils - those that use what WAS recommended in the day , and those that use the absolute best that has been tested and improved over the last 50 plus years.

And a third. Those that use what the manufacturer recommends.

 

[torch]

Synthetics will not magically make your engine last longer or whatever. Synthetics only have two advantages over conventional oils. Better flow at reduced temperatures for a given viscosity\

And that right there is why synthetics (true synthetics anyway) make a tractor engine last longer.

Bracket racing is not done in -40° weather. Snowblowing is. I think we can all agree that an engine is most susceptible to wear when started under such conditions, although perhaps the significance is less with a diesel compared to a gas engine as diesel itself is a lubricant and a diesel does not require an enriched mixture (which washes oil from cylinder walls) to fire when cold. But then, we are not (hopefully) tearing down the tractor engine to refresh it every few months either.

Of course, there is (or was) a raging debate over what makes an oil "synthetic". Back in the 90's Mobil1 argued that it's the base stock that counts, that their products do not require additives because the lubricant is crafted as a whole. Castrol argued that their mineral oil base stock is so highly refined and modified that it becomes a synthetic, which performs equivalent to a synthetic formed from any other base stock.

Castrol won.

Now, I don't think there is any question that Castrol (and Valvoline and PetroCan and other reputable manufacturers) mineral-oil based synthetics are high quality, high performance products. But I do think that the door was opened for calling darn near anything "synthetic", and I am suspicious of house-brand oils making the same claim. And yes, I'm looking at you Walmart and Canadian Tire.

 

[TheOldHokie]

And that right there is why synthetics (true synthetics anyway) make a tractor engine last longer.

Bracket racing is not done in -40° weather. Snowblowing is. I think we can all agree that an engine is most susceptible to wear when started under such conditions, although perhaps the significance is less with a diesel compared to a gas engine as diesel itself is a lubricant and a diesel does not require an enriched mixture (which washes oil from cylinder walls) to fire when cold. But then, we are not (hopefully) tearing down the tractor engine to refresh it every few months either.

Of course, there is (or was) a raging debate over what makes an oil "synthetic". Back in the 90's Mobil1 argued that it's the base stock that counts, that their products do not require additives because the lubricant is crafted as a whole. Castrol argued that their mineral oil base stock is so highly refined and modified that it becomes a synthetic, which performs equivalent to a synthetic formed from any other base stock.

Castrol won.

Now, I don't think there is any question that Castrol (and Valvoline and PetroCan and other reputable manufacturers) mineral-oil based synthetics are high quality, high performance products. But I do think that the door was opened for calling darn near anything "synthetic", and I am suspicious of house-brand oils making the same claim. And yes, I'm looking at you Walmart and Canadian Tire.

In todays world just about every "full synthetic" on the shelf is formulated with a blend of Group III+ and IV base oils. Even Mobil and Amsoil now use group III oils to blend their full synthetics. You will look long and hard to find and then pay mucho for a "pure" PAO (Group IV) formulation. Those days are gone and for good reason. The purity and peformance of the very high viscosity (VHVI) group III ("dino") oils is right up there with PAO.

API has made it clear - they are not going to try and arbitrate this marketing issue and they let their performance testing speak for itself. Pour point and viscosity index are significant clues. You can also look for the BMW or VW long life approval on the bottle if you want an oil that can handle extended drain intervals. And lastly a used oil analysis tells the final story. BITOG has dozens of Walmart synthetic UOAs you can review for free.

Dan