Recommend wheel spacer brand

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Your correct I do not currently own a Kubota ... I clearly listed what I own, and read that I don't need to own a orange tractor to join or post, is that not correct?

But how is one MFWD tractor with a pivoting front axle so different from another?

Please explain WHY Kubota's can't have a wheel spacer on the front axle?

In my experience and testing a wider stance does add stability on the front once it hits the axle frame point, which on my tractor is about a 4" bump or dip.

Thanks for your candor and no it's not a requirement to own orange to be on here.
We support all colors.

Doing alterations on your tractor, Kubota or not, is completely acceptable with most all of us.
It's yours, you break it, you kill it, you make it better, you paint it hot pink... go for it.
(One caveat, I don't allow dangerous alteration advice on anything to be posted even if you own it.)

I ask kindly to please refrain from passing out bad or non kubota standard advice to unknowing readers, as it just creates a bad environment for everyone.
Example:
Would you think it acceptable if someone on a MF website said yes do this or that it works perfectly, and didn't divulge that they did the alteration on their Big Bud 16V-747 tractor?
I would think not.

I bet if you dig into the manuals of which ever MFWD you did it to, they probably do not recommend or endorse doing it unless that model was designed to do it.

I can not speak for any other manufactures requirement or designs on widening the front wheels but I can tell you with 100% certainty that all of the small to mid Kubotas tell you to not widen the front stance ever, and doing do will cause issues.

I have seen many a model that someone has done that too and it has not ended well for the machine or their pocket book.

The front axle of most all Kubotas are very well build and well designed over many years, but are subject to wear and breakage, and especially so if altered in a fashion not recommended by them.

 

[Shawn T. W]

I ask kindly to please refrain from passing out bad or non kubota standard advice to unknowing readers, as it just creates a bad environment for everyone.
Example:
Would you think it acceptable if someone on a MF website said yes do this or that it works perfectly, and didn't divulge that they did the alteration on their Big Bud 16V-747 tractor?
I would think not.

Well .. I actually did specify that it was to my tractor, and what I own is listed here by my name, but I guess it's possible that I did it too a tractor I no longer own, I'll try to be more specific in the future ... And no, I would not knowingly pass on bad or unsafe advise.

Last night I did some more searching specifically for this "spacer" and "front end problems" here ... BTW I signed up to get a better feel for the Kubota tractors, and then research on more specifics on getting a MX/M sized Utility tractor this spring/summer ... I had never heard of this "you're gonna ruin your tractor with spacers" before ... Here or elsewhere.

In looking around I ironically found a post by you, on spacers ...

Kubota does not recommend spacers with the BH use, it puts a huge strain on the Axle cases.

That said, I think 1.5" is about the max i would go.

Kubota doesn't recommend, but ... You do?

I bet if you dig into the manuals of which ever MFWD you did it to, they probably do not recommend or endorse doing it unless that model was designed to do it.

I've read my owners manual for my Massey Ferguson GC 1725MB completely through a few times, and there is nothing that even suggests that it is "not recommended" and have manuals for tractor, loader, backhoe, and the full service manual also, and my dealer, and the mechanic that does the SCUT work, knows I have them, and don't have a problem with them, this is why I was surprised that it is "not recommended" by Kubota.

So far in my searching for spacers potentially causing problems ... I also found these two other threads ...

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/wheel-spacers-and-broken-axles.52801/
Talks about a rear axle breaking, others have spacers or not have all broken rear axles, one poster seems to be a dealer and sold a number of BX some with spacers, some without, no reports of axle problems ... And also a screenshot of Kubota selling spacers.

Spacers - Front and Rear, or Rear Only?

I want to order probably 3" spacers for my B2620. I assumed that I should get both front and rear to keep the tires aligned - but it looks like many folks are only putting spacers on the back - is that true? I e-mailed Bro-tek to see if they had 3" front spacers and the reply was no, only...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Here is a thread with a lot of back and forth as to the "stability of spacers" ... Near the end a former dealer says that Kubota "doesn't recommend" spacers on the front, but sells 3/4" ones ... ? But does say that the way the bearings are lined up that a spacer will put additional stress on the bearing and seal ...

My question is does the extra stress shorten the bearing life by 50% or 5%?

In that thread there is also a report of a poster adding front spacers, and then after time noticed the center axle pivot bolt leaking, removed spacers, tightened bolt, and all fixed, but there concern was bearing failure, never in my mechanic's training or actual short wrenching career have I heard of tightening a bolt will fix a worn bearing ...

I guess to sum up my surprise ... Since I'm looking for a bigger tractor, will the MX/M sized tractors have this same type of handicap of fragile front axles?

I don't "need" MFWD but many have it, as I'm looking in the used market, as I want to avoid the computer/emissions engines ... So two wheel drive is OK with me. Are those axles stronger or built differently?

Happy New Year to all, and thank you for putting up with my long winded post! (I'm trying to learn)

 

[Henro]

My take on it is:

1) The mechanical design of the front axle is quite different than that of the rear axle. All things considered, a small change to the front using spacers equates to a much larger change on the rear axle using spacers. So as far as stress goes on the components, it wouldn’t take much of a spacer on the front to be essentially equal to a 6 inch spacer on the rear.

2) Perhaps more importantly, aside from spacing the wheels out and adding extra stress to the front axle components, the front wheel spacers really offer nothing until the front axle pivots and hits a stop. At that point in time the tractor may already be off the ground on the high side in the rear. Net effect is spacers on the front add stress on the front axle components with very little benefit, if any benefit in real world terms.

It’s hard to get definitive numbers on what the risk might be with using front spacers, but it’s important to understand that most of the time they are adding stress to the front end and may offer no benefit for stability on side slopes.

I think the wolfman’s point was there are a lot of people out there that don’t realize these details, and it would be helpful if people who post information about using front wheel spacers, would also comment that doing so offers greater risk on the front than it does on the back, and they have decided to take that risk for whatever reason.

 

[jyoutz]

Well .. I actually did specify that it was to my tractor, and what I own is listed here by my name, but I guess it's possible that I did it too a tractor I no longer own, I'll try to be more specific in the future ... And no, I would not knowingly pass on bad or unsafe advise.

Last night I did some more searching specifically for this "spacer" and "front end problems" here ... BTW I signed up to get a better feel for the Kubota tractors, and then research on more specifics on getting a MX/M sized Utility tractor this spring/summer ... I had never heard of this "you're gonna ruin your tractor with spacers" before ... Here or elsewhere.

In looking around I ironically found a post by you, on spacers ...



Kubota doesn't recommend, but ... You do?



I've read my owners manual for my Massey Ferguson GC 1725MB completely through a few times, and there is nothing that even suggests that it is "not recommended" and have manuals for tractor, loader, backhoe, and the full service manual also, and my dealer, and the mechanic that does the SCUT work, knows I have them, and don't have a problem with them, this is why I was surprised that it is "not recommended" by Kubota.

So far in my searching for spacers potentially causing problems ... I also found these two other threads ...

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/wheel-spacers-and-broken-axles.52801/
Talks about a rear axle breaking, others have spacers or not have all broken rear axles, one poster seems to be a dealer and sold a number of BX some with spacers, some without, no reports of axle problems ... And also a screenshot of Kubota selling spacers.

Spacers - Front and Rear, or Rear Only?

I want to order probably 3" spacers for my B2620. I assumed that I should get both front and rear to keep the tires aligned - but it looks like many folks are only putting spacers on the back - is that true? I e-mailed Bro-tek to see if they had 3" front spacers and the reply was no, only...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Here is a thread with a lot of back and forth as to the "stability of spacers" ... Near the end a former dealer says that Kubota "doesn't recommend" spacers on the front, but sells 3/4" ones ... ? But does say that the way the bearings are lined up that a spacer will put additional stress on the bearing and seal ...

My question is does the extra stress shorten the bearing life by 50% or 5%?

In that thread there is also a report of a poster adding front spacers, and then after time noticed the center axle pivot bolt leaking, removed spacers, tightened bolt, and all fixed, but there concern was bearing failure, never in my mechanic's training or actual short wrenching career have I heard of tightening a bolt will fix a worn bearing ...

I guess to sum up my surprise ... Since I'm looking for a bigger tractor, will the MX/M sized tractors have this same type of handicap of fragile front axles?

I don't "need" MFWD but many have it, as I'm looking in the used market, as I want to avoid the computer/emissions engines ... So two wheel drive is OK with me. Are those axles stronger or built differently?

Happy New Year to all, and thank you for putting up with my long winded post! (I'm trying to learn)

If you buy a MX, there’s no reason at all to consider spacers. This machine is already extremely stable compared to the B or L series machines. And in my opinion, a 2wd tractor is financially a mistake to buy. They are very hard to resale. The same goes for buying a tractor without a loader.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Well .. I actually did specify that it was to my tractor, and what I own is listed here by my name, but I guess it's possible that I did it too a tractor I no longer own, I'll try to be more specific in the future ... And no, I would not knowingly pass on bad or unsafe advise.

Last night I did some more searching specifically for this "spacer" and "front end problems" here ... BTW I signed up to get a better feel for the Kubota tractors, and then research on more specifics on getting a MX/M sized Utility tractor this spring/summer ... I had never heard of this "you're gonna ruin your tractor with spacers" before ... Here or elsewhere.

In looking around I ironically found a post by you, on spacers ...



Kubota doesn't recommend, but ... You do?



I've read my owners manual for my Massey Ferguson GC 1725MB completely through a few times, and there is nothing that even suggests that it is "not recommended" and have manuals for tractor, loader, backhoe, and the full service manual also, and my dealer, and the mechanic that does the SCUT work, knows I have them, and don't have a problem with them, this is why I was surprised that it is "not recommended" by Kubota.

So far in my searching for spacers potentially causing problems ... I also found these two other threads ...

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/wheel-spacers-and-broken-axles.52801/
Talks about a rear axle breaking, others have spacers or not have all broken rear axles, one poster seems to be a dealer and sold a number of BX some with spacers, some without, no reports of axle problems ... And also a screenshot of Kubota selling spacers.

Spacers - Front and Rear, or Rear Only?

I want to order probably 3" spacers for my B2620. I assumed that I should get both front and rear to keep the tires aligned - but it looks like many folks are only putting spacers on the back - is that true? I e-mailed Bro-tek to see if they had 3" front spacers and the reply was no, only...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Here is a thread with a lot of back and forth as to the "stability of spacers" ... Near the end a former dealer says that Kubota "doesn't recommend" spacers on the front, but sells 3/4" ones ... ? But does say that the way the bearings are lined up that a spacer will put additional stress on the bearing and seal ...

My question is does the extra stress shorten the bearing life by 50% or 5%?

In that thread there is also a report of a poster adding front spacers, and then after time noticed the center axle pivot bolt leaking, removed spacers, tightened bolt, and all fixed, but there concern was bearing failure, never in my mechanic's training or actual short wrenching career have I heard of tightening a bolt will fix a worn bearing ...

I guess to sum up my surprise ... Since I'm looking for a bigger tractor, will the MX/M sized tractors have this same type of handicap of fragile front axles?

I don't "need" MFWD but many have it, as I'm looking in the used market, as I want to avoid the computer/emissions engines ... So two wheel drive is OK with me. Are those axles stronger or built differently?

Happy New Year to all, and thank you for putting up with my long winded post! (I'm trying to learn)

I think you're confusing front axle spacers or widening and rear axle spacers and widening.
My "recommendation" for go ahead and use them with a BH was for rear wheel spacers, not front.

Most M's do have options to widen the front stance on the 4wd models.
Kubota's are also true 4wd's on the M's and not MFWD, there is a difference.
I do not believe you can widen the MX's but have not looked into doing this.

 

[Shawn T. W]

Henro, I fully agree that front spacers do not allow any extra stability on a side hill, UNTIL the axle meets the frame stop ... But rear spacers provided additional stability all the time.

In my experimenting on my MF that happens at approximately 4" on either the front or the rear .. 8" rise on the rear lifted the front tire on that side a tad over 2" in the air! But tractor was stable at that time, I could climb on and off, and "shake it" with my 200 Lb body ... I used my BH to "catch it" if it went over, but it was not necessary! I feel the front spacer did add to the stability in that case ...

I retire in 37 months ... After that I will have much more time to experiment ... I plan to actually find the tipping point of my tractor with no spacers, only rear spacers, only front spacers, and front rear spacers to know for my particular tractor just how much of a benefit each adds to my safety of not tipping over when actually using it ... If I should have bearing failure a bit early, that is worth the cost to me of additional safety, I operate on some BUMPY side hills in the Ozarks ...

-----------------

North Idaho Wolfman ... What I was bringing up on the "ironic post" was Kubota "doesn't recommend" but you did ...

------------------------

In general I believe that most of the few reported front axle problems are related to not properly using enough ballast when using the loader ...

I've never seen a number printed in any manual as to how much weight should be back there to fully take advantage of the loaders lift capacity, and some dealers/salesman doesn't even seem to suggest ANY ballast ...

In my opinion we need to look at if the tractor has the option of a BH, or even comes that way from the factory ... Since it's difficult to add ballast to a BH, that seems to be a good starting point, since the BH hangs back quite aways, and most ballast boxes don't, I think the ballast box should be heavier for full loads up front ... My SCUT BH is 650.4 Lbs with an added BXpanded's thumb and Quick-on ... My ballast box I made weighs 707.0 Lbs (yes I have a scale) and can add more weight ... But haven't needed to yet as the tractor acts the same with the ballast box as it does with the BH on.

The other cause I believe of premature front axle bearing wear/breakage is the lubricating oil is not changed frequent enough ... There is no filtration system, and with the additional stress of both spacers and not enough ballast they take a beating, and are swimming in abrasive fluid ...

This is my MF GC 1725 MB's front axle fluid (hydraulic fluid) at 244 hours from new . . .

90 hours later ...

I now aim at 100 hour change intervals . . . Even though Massey Ferguson "recommends" changing the fluid every 500 hours, or two years ... I have slightly less than 600 hours now, and fluid has been changed 4 times, tractor is less than 3 years old, almost due for another change.

Fluid is cheap, rear ballast also keeps the tractor stable . . .

 

[Henro]

In my experimenting on my MF that happens at approximately 4" on either the front or the rear .. 8" rise on the rear lifted the front tire on that side a tad over 2" in the air! But tractor was stable at that time, I could climb on and off, and "shake it" with my 200 Lb body ... I used my BH to "catch it" if it went over, but it was not necessary! I feel the front spacer did add to the stability in that case ...

I am uncertain what you are saying here.

I think you are saying you went on a side slope, to the point where the high side rear wheel lifted off the ground 8", and the front axle pivoted to the point where the uphill front wheel was also off the ground 2", and the tractor was still stable?

Am I missing something in the translation?

I have had an experience in the past where where one of the front wheels was off the ground a couple inches (can't remember which one) but the rear wheels were rock solid on the ground, and in my case everything was totally stable, as is to be expected if the rear wheels are both resting solidly on the ground.

 

[Shawn T. W]

No, I drove the rear wheel up on a 8" high ramp ...