Raising Pole Barn Floor

[S_fontinalis]

When we bought our house it came with a 54x36 pole barn which we use for storage. We have noticed a couple issues with the barn we would like to address.

• The sand floor turns into soup from snowmelt in May until about the 4th of July.
  • Installing French drains along the eaves is on the to-do list, but this will be a major undertaking due to uncleared stumps and spoil piles between the barn and the drain outlet.
  • I would like to make improvements to the situation before the snow flies.
    
• I am not a pole barn expert, but the grades of the interior floor and metal sheeting seem off. The bottom of the doors reach the top or the splash board but the exterior metal siding extends several inches below this grade. This results in a large gap between the floor and the bottom of the door (see photos below)
  
  
• The sand floor is less than ideal, and I would like install a crushed limestone surface. We are not interested in investing in a concrete floor for the barn at this time. This is truly a storage shed.

I am admittedly suffering from analysis paralysis. From reading online I cannot tell if my plan is complete overkill, or if it will do nothing besides possibly push out the walls of my barn.

So gurus of OTT, here is my plan to begin to improve the situation for your consideration:

1. Install ground contact treated 2x8s along the inside of poles to prevent the new floor from pushing out the exterior siding.
2. Compact the existing floor using rented plate compactor.
3. Install woven geotextile - to help prevent the new floor from just sinking into the soup and limit permeability of the floor.
4. Add 5 inches of compacted 22A road gravel in 2.5 inch lifts
5. Add second layer of woven geotextile - the big box store is cheap that this should help stabilize the floor
6. Add ~2.5 inches of compacted crushed limestone to bring the grade of the new floor up to the bottom of the door

 

[jyoutz]

Is concrete an option? This was my solution when I had the same situation with my barn.

 

[ken erickson]

I think you have a great plan of action and will yield a very usable good floor in the future.

Would gutters be more feasible compared to the French drains in the short term?

I built a open sided 24 x 27 tractor shed on sandy soil and skipped many of the steps your contemplating and have a very usable floor. I compacted the sand floor and then brought in the crushed limestone, I forget exactly what I ordered, then compacted again. I ended up with 2 1/2 to 3 inches of limestone.

 

[Moose7060]

I think you have a great plan of action and will yield a very usable good floor in the future.

Would gutters be more feasible compared to the French drains in the short term?

I built a open sided 24 x 27 tractor shed on sandy soil and skipped many of the steps your contemplating and have a very usable floor. I compacted the sand floor and then brought in the crushed limestone, I forget exactly what I ordered, then compacted again. I ended up with 2 1/2 to 3 inches of limestone.
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I just did a double take. Thought you posted a picture of 1 of my pole sheds!

 

[S_fontinalis]

Is concrete an option? This was my solution when I had the same situation with my barn.

Concrete is an option of last resort. As nice as it would be, this is really just a storage shed. I am hoping to get this done on the cheap to save money to focus on filling the shed with toys to complement the 2501.

 

[S_fontinalis]

I think you have a great plan of action and will yield a very usable good floor in the future.

Would gutters be more feasible compared to the French drains in the short term?

I built a open sided 24 x 27 tractor shed on sandy soil and skipped many of the steps your contemplating and have a very usable floor. I compacted the sand floor and then brought in the crushed limestone, I forget exactly what I ordered, then compacted again. I ended up with 2 1/2 to 3 inches of limestone.
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View attachment 136095 View attachment 136096

View attachment 136097

Thanks for sharing your shed, it looks great!

I like the gutter idea, but I don't think gutters would solve the issue.

We get about 170 inches of snow a year, which really piles up under the eaves. I think that this plus some less than ideal grading is the source of the water problem in the spring.

 

[ken erickson]

Thanks for sharing your shed, it looks great!

I like the gutter idea, but I don't think gutters would solve the issue.

We get about 170 inches of snow a year, which really piles up under the eaves. I think that this plus some less than ideal grading is the source of the water problem in the spring.

Yep, understand on the snow piling up under the eaves.

As a side note with my saltbox style open faced shed for every inch of rain fall my 24 x 27 shed roof yields about 425 gallons of water. I installed gutters front and back to not only help with water mitigation but I also divert it all downhill about 280 feet to a small wildlife pond. If your soils are like mine, loamy sand, I get no run off and half hour after it rains its like it never did.

I do think the way your planning on doing your floor will turn out very well, solid, level and great for storage.

Good luck with the project and hope to see a few progress pictures along the way.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

options...
1) LOWER the land around the building ! Grade a steepish slope AWAY from the walls.

2) Pour concrete sills ,say 4" tall, around the perimeter, in effect a 'dam' to reduce water getting in , as well as VERMIN...

3) Add 3/4- gravel to the level of the concrete sills for the floor, be sure to power tamp down real good.

 

[Russell King]

Are you planning on putting in an external ramp outside the doors?

Or are you planning on pouring a concrete curb along where the doors come down?

If you plan on just a board along the doors I think that will fail fairly quickly.

 

[jyoutz]

Concrete is an option of last resort. As nice as it would be, this is really just a storage shed. I am hoping to get this done on the cheap to save money to focus on filling the shed with toys to complement the 2501.

If it’s a last resort, then I would pour a 6” wide concrete curb along the inside ground of the shed. Then fill it with packed road base material (variable sized gravel mixed with crushed rock fines). Then install gutters with drainage pipes to move roof water away from the building.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

On on the same thoughts as @jyoutz , I would pour a curb ( and skirt) especially under the doors.
I would add drains in the slab before i poured concreate then cloth and rock it.

 

[Motion]

Concrete is an option of last resort. As nice as it would be, this is really just a storage shed. I am hoping to get this done on the cheap to save money to focus on filling the shed with toys to complement the 2501.

Once you fill it with toys you may regret not choosing the concrete option.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

If you can get 'slag', a byproduct from steel making, use it ! A LOT cheaper than concrete and one tamped down ,it's really,really TOUGH to break up. BTDT,spent days on the BX23S trying even full sized excavator , it was interesting...Once broken into crumbles ..like any other 'gravel BUT tamp it down it's SOLID again.
The 'trick' with water is to get it AWAY from the building first . Give it an easier direction instead of INTO the shed. That's why I suggested slopes away from the building.Something like 6" slope in 4' is nice, water runs away, grass easy to cut with rider,no need for gutters.

 

[S_fontinalis]

Are you planning on putting in an external ramp outside the doors?

Or are you planning on pouring a concrete curb along where the doors come down?

If you plan on just a board along the doors I think that will fail fairly quickly.

External ramp is the plan.

The thought behind the board was just to keep the added gravel off the external skirt board to prevent any frost jacking from damaging the skirt.

 

[S_fontinalis]

@GreensvilleJay

I definitely agree about getting the water away being the best / only solution to this problem.

The original builders partially dug the barn into a small hill, and did a poor job establishing the grade around the barn. This resulted in two sides sloping towards the barn, and a third side being nearly flat.

One goal this summer was to dig out the remainder of the hill to give water a path away from the building. I got started, but sadly life got in the way, and it does not look like this project will be done by winter. There are just too many stumps in the way and not enough hours after work / weekends to get a proper fix installed.

Fixing drainage and diverting water around the building is currently my big project planned for next year.

My thinking was that a weekend on the tractor moving gravel could start to improve the situation in the meantime.

 

[D2Cat]

Sounds like water is coming from at least two side because of slope. You mention lack of time and stumps to prevent any drainage. If you can't get the water redirected all the work inside is a waste of time. If nothing else rent a walk behind trencher and cut a ditch of some kind on those two sides to keep water out. That would be about a 5" wide slot for water to move in. Doesn't have to be deep or perfect, just make it easy for water to go somewhere else.

 

[Trimley]

If I was in your situation...

That pole building needs commercial road mat barrier put down over the sand. Then I would put down 3" crush quarry rock, then a 1" crush binder to fill/lock it all together, then packed.

Or, pour concrete (best)

Gutters, downspouts into 6" corrugated pipe to divert run-off away from the structure.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

As D2 says, doing inside is a waste of time and material. Attack the slopes and do it right. Get a work detail organized, rent some equipment and perimeter slopes will be done in ONE day, it's only +-150' . 3-4 guys, with some planning, this is easy to knock off. Depending on the 'stumps' , rent a mid excavator and remove. Maybe a full size and do it faster,easier ??
If this is your 'forever home', doing this right, now means you'll never have 'water issues' in the future.