Question on BX23D pto selection and resulting movements

[Tractor Gal]

I have recently removed the backhoe from the 2004 BX23D MLB and have attached the 3 pt linkage. There are 3 choices for PTO operation: mid-mount PTO, rear PTO and a selector for both at the same time. The mid-mount mower is still attached to the tractor; no implements attached at the PTO for the moment. When the selector is set for mid-mount only, the 3 point arms are moving up and down in sync with the movement of the mower, either up or down. I do not believe this is correct. When the PTO selector is set for the PTO only, the mower does not respond either up or down...which is correct. As I type this, I realize that I have not selected "both" PTOs to see what happens but I still have a question.

Anyway, should the 3 point arms work in tandem with the mid-mount up and down or should those arms stay put? I would think the 3 point arms should not move. What is the correct action here? I do not want the mower going up and down if it's still attached when I use an implement.

Tractor Gal

 

[85Hokie]

TG,

On the old models of BX's - that do not have a backhoe - the mower AND the 3 point work as ONE.
Typically the 3 point moves up first then the deck follows. I think this is due to the linkage of the MMM.


As you may know the rear and mid PTO selection are designed for a PTO "bagger" that holds the grass clippings from the MMM.

YOU should have a knob between your legs as you sit on the tractor - raise the deck ALL THE way up and twist this to the "TOP" position - this will LOCK the MMM up in the air as high as possible.

 

[Tractor Gal]

TG,

On the old models of BX's - that do not have a backhoe - the mower AND the 3 point work as ONE.
Typically the 3 point moves up first then the deck follows. I think this is due to the linkage of the MMM.


As you may know the rear and mid PTO selection are designed for a PTO "bagger" that holds the grass clippings from the MMM.

YOU should have a knob between your legs as you sit on the tractor - raise the deck ALL THE way up and twist this to the "TOP" position - this will LOCK the MMM up in the air as high as possible.

 

[Tractor Gal]

Thanks for some help. Here's the thing...this is an old BX but it was the first model that included the backhoe...MLB = mower, loader, backhoe. Perhaps they didn't change the linkage to keep the 3 pt separate until later.

Yes, the adjustment knob. I had to buy the knob since it was missing. Right now, it doesn't twist at all. Guess I'll have to work to get that moving to try to get the mower locked at the top. Sounds like a plan.

Thanks for the help. I'll give it a try.

TG

 

[GreX]

Thanks for some help. Here's the thing...this is an old BX but it was the first model that included the backhoe...MLB = mower, loader, backhoe. Perhaps they didn't change the linkage to keep the 3 pt separate until later.

Yes, the adjustment knob. I had to buy the knob since it was missing. Right now, it doesn't twist at all. Guess I'll have to work to get that moving to try to get the mower locked at the top. Sounds like a plan.

Thanks for the help. I'll give it a try.

TG

As "85Hokie" stated, you need to raise your rear (and mid) 3-point ALL THE WAY UP before the mower height selector knob will move, its a VERY common ask around here (I've asked before), don't go crazy on that as you will cause damage to the splined connection point for that height selector, try raising the 3-point all the way up before trying to move that knob up or down.

 

[Russell King]

I have recently removed the backhoe from the 2004 BX23D MLB and have attached the 3 pt linkage. There are 3 choices for PTO operation: mid-mount PTO, rear PTO and a selector for both at the same time. The mid-mount mower is still attached to the tractor; no implements attached at the PTO for the moment. When the selector is set for mid-mount only, the 3 point arms are moving up and down in sync with the movement of the mower, either up or down. I do not believe this is correct. When the PTO selector is set for the PTO only, the mower does not respond either up or down...which is correct. As I type this, I realize that I have not selected "both" PTOs to see what happens but I still have a question.

Anyway, should the 3 point arms work in tandem with the mid-mount up and down or should those arms stay put? I would think the 3 point arms should not move. What is the correct action here? I do not want the mower going up and down if it's still attached when I use an implement.

Tractor Gal

I am not sure what you are asking but a PTO selection has nothing to do with the three point lift. They are completely different systems in terms of operations.

The mower is raised and lowered by the three point lift (I think). I ASSUME that moving the rear arms up also should lift the mid mount mower up as you describe.

You should be able to turn the mower “on and off” by selecting the mid pto or the both mid and rear pto to on or off. If the rear pto only is selected the mid mount mower should not turn on.

Why the mid mount mower does not move when you select the rear only pto is a mystery to me.

But I can be 100% incorrect since I have never used a tractor similar to yours.

Have you tried finding the operator manual on Kubota books dot com?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Russell is 100% right, the PTO selector is for the spinning PTO shaft, had nothing to do with the three point or mower lift operation.
The three point controls the mower lift so it must move to move the mower unless you have the mower locked in the full lift point.

 

[Tractor Gal]

It's a matter of semantics, I suppose. The PTO selector lever controls which PTO will spin. I understand that. At the same time, in my mind, the lift/lower lever works in conjunction as to which PTO has been selected and the implement attached to that PTO will operate. Eg., If the mower is used, select the MM PTO; using the lift lever, the mower will move up or down and the blades will turn when the control lever is pushed forward and down. Conversely, if the rear PTO is selected, the lift lever should raise/lower the 3 pt arms only, not the MMM. The blades do not turn but the mower continues to move up/down in tandem with the 3 pt arms.

I have raised the mower to its full height and have been able to turn the knob to get it to the highest point. I was glad to learn that the mower had to be at the full height in order for that knob to turn. But, it doesn't seem to "lock" there. Is there something else that needs to be done when the "top" indicator is selected with the mower knob below the seat?

When I select the PTO for the rear, the 3 pt lift arms move up and down but so does the mower at the same time. I did not expect to have to remove the mower to be able to use rear implements. I want to use a box blade right now but the mower will drag, I would think...or even get a pile of dirt underneath.

And, yes, I have pored over the operator's manual for the mower. Very little info is given and certainly nothing that helps solve this issue. That's why I came to the pros! I hope you don't let me down!

TG

 

[Russell King]

I think there should be some method to make the mower locked in the highest up position and then the lowering of the three point arms will not effect the height of the mower deck.

You do have a manual for the mower itself?

I recall reading here that some decks get pinned up by putting a pin through the lift arms, others I recall reading that the knob locks it up. You might be able to search this site and find some information about the mower and tractor if you haven’t checked already.

 

[DustyRusty]

The BX23 is a clone of the BX22, and having had a BX22, with the mower deck, I can tell you factually that the mower deck will not stay locked in the upper position even when you have the selector knob in the "Top" position. There is no way to separate the action of the 3-point arms from the mid-mount mower. The owner's manual instructs you to remove the backhoe when using the mid-mount mower. It also instructs you to remove the mid-mount mower when using the 3-point hitch for other implements. I used to mow with my BX22 while leaving the loader on since it was such a pain to remove it. After having the mid-mount mower on during the summer, and also wanting to do loader work that many times would require having to remove the mid-mount mower, I realized that a machine that was dedicated to mowing was a better solution. I purchased a ZTR mower, and it is a faster and more efficient way to mow lawns. When I sold the BX22, I gave the new purchaser the mid-mount mower since I would never use it again having learned the hard way that it isn't an efficient way to cut grass. The only way that I would ever use a BX tractor as a stand-alone mower is if both the backhoe and the loader were removed. I also had a BX grass catcher, and it was just about useless. The 60" mower deck would fill the 3 bags quite quickly and I was constantly emptying it. For that reason alone, I switched to Oregon Gator Mulching blades and stopped collecting the clippings. I also got quite adept at removing and reinstalling the mower deck until I got the ZTR. I now have a BX23S, and in many ways, I still like the BX22 better than the BX23S. All the safety switches drive me crazy, and the fact that they set the tractor idle as 12 or 1400 RPM is another bone of contention for me. My BX22 would idle at 600 RPM, and it didn't sound like it was screaming every time I had to get off the machine to remove a branch or some other object that I didn't want to run over when cutting grass.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It's a matter of semantics, I suppose. The PTO selector lever controls which PTO will spin. I understand that. At the same time, in my mind, the lift/lower lever works in conjunction as to which PTO has been selected and the implement attached to that PTO will operate. Eg., If the mower is used, select the MM PTO; using the lift lever, the mower will move up or down and the blades will turn when the control lever is pushed forward and down. Conversely, if the rear PTO is selected, the lift lever should raise/lower the 3 pt arms only, not the MMM. The blades do not turn but the mower continues to move up/down in tandem with the 3 pt arms.

I have raised the mower to its full height and have been able to turn the knob to get it to the highest point. I was glad to learn that the mower had to be at the full height in order for that knob to turn. But, it doesn't seem to "lock" there. Is there something else that needs to be done when the "top" indicator is selected with the mower knob below the seat?

When I select the PTO for the rear, the 3 pt lift arms move up and down but so does the mower at the same time. I did not expect to have to remove the mower to be able to use rear implements. I want to use a box blade right now but the mower will drag, I would think...or even get a pile of dirt underneath.

And, yes, I have pored over the operator's manual for the mower. Very little info is given and certainly nothing that helps solve this issue. That's why I came to the pros! I hope you don't let me down!

TG

Yea that thinking is all in your mind, the system does not work that way.
No matter which position you have the PTO ( Power Take Off ) in the three point will operate.
and thusly also the MMM until it's locked in the up right position.

This model the lock is manual, see last pic lock in yellow.
First lift the mower, this might involve setting the selector to max height.
Then turn the pin 1/4 turn to disengage it and allow it to lock into the frame.
Now only the three point will move and the MMM will stay up.
Then to disengage the lock, lift the three point to max. pull pin turn 1/4 turn to lock open, now MMM will work with three point.

 

[Tractor Gal]

DustyRusty,

"The owner's manual instructs you to remove the backhoe when using the mid-mount mower. It also instructs you to remove the mid-mount mower when using the 3-point hitch for other implements."

The manual for BX23D does not say this. It says if using the mower, remove the inlet and outlet hoses that allow the backhoe to operate. Complete the "loop" from the inlet to the outlet which allows the hydraulic fluid to move correctly for mower and loader.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

Yea that thinking is all in your mind, the system does not work that way.
No matter which position you have the PTO ( Power Take Off ) in the three point will operate.
and thusly also the MMM until it's locked in the up right position.

This model the lock is manual, see last pic lock in yellow.
First lift the mower, this might involve setting the selector to max height.
Then turn the pin 1/4 turn to disengage it and allow it to lock into the frame.
Now only the three point will move and the MMM will stay up.
Then to disengage the lock, lift the three point to max. pull pin turn 1/4 turn to lock open, now MMM will work with three point.

View attachment 110091

The yellow indicator is not showing (that I can see) but I've looked at both the RH and LH diagrams. There is a pin on each side so I think that's what you're indicating. I'll give it a try. My main computer is not working so if I can't fully see, I'll download the BX23D from kubotabooks and look more closely. I hope this works. I know you know these machines through and through. Thanks for your help.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

Good news. The 1/4 turn of the pin did not solve the problem...unless I was turning the wrong pin. There are not a lot of choices of pins so I don't think that was the problem.

BUT, I raised the deck as far as I could manually and blocked it at its highest. Then, I turned the height adjustment knob several times in both directions. I could feel the little bumps as I turned. Then, I took the blocks out to let the mower hang on its own. Then, I raised the mower to the highest point and turned the height adjustment knob as far toward TOP as I could. It stopped but not at TOP. When I selected for the rear PTO only and used the raise/lower lever, the mower stayed put at the top while the rear arms moved up and down. Problem solved.

I am not certain of the actual solution but 85Hokie's suggestion was what has worked. Why it didn't in the past, I do not know. And, who cares? It is working and I can now proceed to find other problems to deal with on this tractor. The prior owner did not care for this one very well so, little by little, it is coming back to the machine it needs to be. Well, at least becoming the machine I need it to be.

Thanks to all that helped. I will now slip quietly back into night and as silently slip away.

TG

 

[Henro]

Good news. The 1/4 turn of the pin did not solve the problem...unless I was turning the wrong pin. There are not a lot of choices of pins so I don't think that was the problem.

BUT, I raised the deck as far as I could manually and blocked it at its highest. Then, I turned the height adjustment knob several times in both directions. I could feel the little bumps as I turned. Then, I took the blocks out to let the mower hang on its own. Then, I raised the mower to the highest point and turned the height adjustment knob as far toward TOP as I could. It stopped but not at TOP. When I selected for the rear PTO only and used the raise/lower lever, the mower stayed put at the top while the rear arms moved up and down. Problem solved.

I am not certain of the actual solution but 85Hokie's suggestion was what has worked. Why it didn't in the past, I do not know. And, who cares? It is working and I can now proceed to find other problems to deal with on this tractor. The prior owner did not care for this one very well so, little by little, it is coming back to the machine it needs to be. Well, at least becoming the machine I need it to be.

Thanks to all that helped. I will now slip quietly back into night and as silently slip away.

TG

Late to the party, but that is the way it works on my BX2200, one iteration before the BX23.

I think you can be comfortable with the solution you found...

 

[TopK]

Good news. The 1/4 turn of the pin did not solve the problem...unless I was turning the wrong pin. There are not a lot of choices of pins so I don't think that was the problem.

BUT, I raised the deck as far as I could manually and blocked it at its highest. Then, I turned the height adjustment knob several times in both directions. I could feel the little bumps as I turned. Then, I took the blocks out to let the mower hang on its own. Then, I raised the mower to the highest point and turned the height adjustment knob as far toward TOP as I could. It stopped but not at TOP. When I selected for the rear PTO only and used the raise/lower lever, the mower stayed put at the top while the rear arms moved up and down. Problem solved.

I am not certain of the actual solution but 85Hokie's suggestion was what has worked. Why it didn't in the past, I do not know. And, who cares? It is working and I can now proceed to find other problems to deal with on this tractor. The prior owner did not care for this one very well so, little by little, it is coming back to the machine it needs to be. Well, at least becoming the machine I need it to be.

Thanks to all that helped. I will now slip quietly back into night and as silently slip away.

TG

I had the same issue with the Cutter Knob not being able to be placed into the "TOP" position - the advice I got was as follows:

"The height adjustment "Top" position holds the deck in the fully raised position regardless of the 3 point hitch position. Raise the deck completely and turn the height adjustment to "Top". If the knob won't turn to "Top", do the following:
Looking at the rear of the tractor, just inside the left rear tire is a linkage that controls the lift. There will be a gold colored bolt that faces rearward. Loosen the lock nut on the bolt and screw the bolt in one turn. Raise the mmm all the way and see if the knob will turn to the "Top" position. If not, turn the bolt another turn and try again. It shouldn't take more than a few turns of the bolt unless something else is out of adjustment."

 

[Russell King]

The yellow indicator is not showing (that I can see) but I've looked at both the RH and LH diagrams. There is a pin on each side so I think that's what you're indicating. I'll give it a try. My main computer is not working so if I can't fully see, I'll download the BX23D from kubotabooks and look more closely. I hope this works. I know you know these machines through and through. Thanks for your help.

TG

I don’t see any yellow highlighted pin either but I’m pretty sure it’s the #140 pin
@North Idaho Wolfman may come back to confirm that.

I imagine that the mower deck has to be accurately adjusted for the pin to align with the hole.

You might be able to see the hole in a bracket that appears to be welded to the tractor frame.

Glad you have some solution working for you though!

 

[Tractor Gal]

I had the same issue with the Cutter Knob not being able to be placed into the "TOP" position - the advice I got was as follows:

"The height adjustment "Top" position holds the deck in the fully raised position regardless of the 3 point hitch position. Raise the deck completely and turn the height adjustment to "Top". If the knob won't turn to "Top", do the following:
Looking at the rear of the tractor, just inside the left rear tire is a linkage that controls the lift. There will be a gold colored bolt that faces rearward. Loosen the lock nut on the bolt and screw the bolt in one turn. Raise the mmm all the way and see if the knob will turn to the "Top" position. If not, turn the bolt another turn and try again. It shouldn't take more than a few turns of the bolt unless something else is out of adjustment."

Good info, TopK. I'm surely going to check into this...but not today! It's too hot and I was able to use the box blade to get done what I needed. MMM stayed up until the end and then I noticed it had begun to sag...kinda' like me, I guess! So, I brought the mower back to full height and re-turned the knob. It stayed, at least it stayed long enough. Thanks again for the good info.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

I don’t see any yellow highlighted pin either but I’m pretty sure it’s the #140 pin
@North Idaho Wolfman may come back to confirm that.

I imagine that the mower deck has to be accurately adjusted for the pin to align with the hole.

You might be able to see the hole in a bracket that appears to be welded to the tractor frame.

Glad you have some solution working for you though!

Yes, I thought the pin was #140 as well. There is no hole. There is a spring with a roll pin holding the spring in place. I think pulling that pin would release the mower deck! Not sure. TopK gave another good explanation so I'll check into that, as well as to look at #140 a little closer. It's too hot to do any more today. Perhaps next week.

TG