PTO shaft stuck on implement

[icehorse]

I'm borrowing a friend's old tiller. it came with the PTO shaft already inserted. The shaft is too short so I need to put a longer shaft on (I have an issue with that as well, but I'll put that in a separate thread).

I have tried Blaster PB - several times - really dowsed the connection point. I've been able to get a 6' pry bar onto the yoke to get about a 10 to 1 mechanical advantage. No luck. I heard an idea of using a ratchet strap. I haven't tried that yet because I don't want to damage the gearbox. I heard maybe a propane torch? But I also heard that a torch could ignite leftover Blaster residue?

Any other ideas?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

while a picture would help.....
HEAT the bottom(low side) of the shaft up then pour thin oil on the top(high side) to wick it's way all down the shafts. they are usually a 'tight' fit, but have patience and lots of 'oil' ( ATF works well). MORE is better.
May take several applications of heat,oil,heat,oil....could take 2-3 hours but it will come apart.
PATIENCE, heat, oil.......

 

[SDT]

I'm borrowing a friend's old tiller. it came with the PTO shaft already inserted. The shaft is too short so I need to put a longer shaft on (I have an issue with that as well, but I'll put that in a separate thread).

I have tried Blaster PB - several times - really dowsed the connection point. I've been able to get a 6' pry bar onto the yoke to get about a 10 to 1 mechanical advantage. No luck. I heard an idea of using a ratchet strap. I haven't tried that yet because I don't want to damage the gearbox. I heard maybe a propane torch? But I also heard that a torch could ignite leftover Blaster residue?

Any other ideas?

Is the shaft bent from interference with deck, etc?

Don't expect much from a propane torch.

 

[icehorse]

Is the shaft bent from interference with deck, etc?

Don't expect much from a propane torch.

i've removed the other half of the PTO shaft, so the only thing on the tiller is 1/2 of the total PTO shaft, and it's shaft is just hanging free. the only thing attached is the yoke.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

i've removed the other half of the PTO shaft, so the only thing on the tiller is 1/2 of the total PTO shaft, and it's shaft is just hanging free. the only thing attached is the yoke.

Remove the shaft from the yoke and use a gear / pulley puller to pull the yoke off the shaft.
I assume that you removed the keeper bolt and checked for set screws.

 

[bucktail]

What part of it is stuck? Are the splines rushed together or is the retaining button stuck?

 

[Russell King]

The yoke on my tiller would also not come off due to it being rusted onto the input shaft of the tiller. I assume the PTO shaft was left on the tiller and it sat outside for years.

I assume it has some splined connection and also has some retaining pin or bolt or a ring to move around somehow. Make sure that is actually released since that will never let the shaft come off.

The easiest way to get it off is to cut it off and replace the shaft or the destroyed yoke. But that is probably not what you want to do on a tiller that you don’t own.

You may be able to just put longer tubes onto the existing yokes and resolve your issue that way. The problem with doing that is that the rear yoke is also where the shear pin is and it may be rusted solid so would damage the gear box on the tiller or on your tractor. So it may be a great idea to install a slip clutch at the tractor end to protect your tractor and make the PTO shaft effectively longer. They also make PTO shaft extenders to fit on the tractor output shaft that would be cheaper.

Here is how I got mine off the tiller.

Removed the u-joint at the tiller end so I had good access to the tiller input shaft through the open end of the yoke. Then tilted the tiller so the input shaft was vertical so gravity would help the penetrating oil get into the joint. Used a good penetrating oil (PB Blaster in my case) and sprayed the yoke as full as it would hold. Walked away for a few hours and then did it again. Then I removed the retention pin mechanism from the yoke to be sure it was out of the equation.

Now I should have used a puller but I didn’t have one that large and the end of the shaft may not have had any center in it (not sure about that). Since I couldn’t hit it from the rear to drive it off, I drove it back towards the tiller. I did NOT hit the ears of the yoke very hard but did use them to “ring” it and vibrate the yoke to help the penetrating oil move (in theory). I used a 2-3 pound hammer and long steel drifts on the body of the yoke. When it move a little to the rear, I stopped and sprayed the exposed shaft with penetrating oil and moved the shaft back to its starting location using a pry bar or pulling on it. Then spray the shaft behind the yoke with penetrating oil. Drive the yoke back a bit further than before (but don’t go too far) and continue the back and forth motion until it will move completely forward off of the shaft.

I didn’t understand that the rear half yoke was really two pieces with a shear bolt and ball bearings involved until I had it removed. I don’t think I could have gotten it apart on the shaft anyway since the ball bearings had to be removed and they were really badly rusted and I had to soak that part of the yoke in penetrating oil to get it to rotate and release the balls (out of a plugged hole if remember correctly).

Then clean up the shaft on the tiller, rebuild the rear yoke, install new U-joints at both ends, put in a new release pin mechanism, and add a Bare Co. plastic safety shield (that was non existent before).

Good lock

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

not uncommon problem as often the pto to implement is sometimes never removed / cleaned. lots of good advice given above.

I would work on lock mechanism first then switch to rust in the yolk/shaft contact plane.

how short is the original shaft? a 6" extender for $30 might be the easiest solution if that's all you need.

Locking mechanism clean. does your pto have a button or collar to lock it and does it travel their full range? Button can be fully pushed in and / or collar pulled all the way back? Knowing this will help tell us if it a lock issue or a rust issue. i hate collars as not much dirt needed in those little balls can be a b@tch. make sure button and / collar move fully and those balls are really clean and degreased.
if locks move full range and balls clean / degreased try a light tap of the yolk with a sharp blow towards the equipment. A careful blow not to damage equipment but still shock the joint.
Lots of fluid flow to clean dirt from collar ball bearings often needed. Degreaser could be your friend. I would also consider hitting it with a power washer. (flame on) Yes I know lots will complain but blast as much dirt / oils / old hardened greases etc.... out of the equation of locking mechanism and shaft / yolk contact area AND the ball bearings if a collared lock. Get those balls clean. Careful of plastic parts. If you pressure washer lets you turn down the pressure a bit thats a good idea. Make it clean realizing once apart you will need to strip / clean / re-grease the entire joint. Hardened crap needs to get removed sometimes using aggressive tools to rule out that being the problem. A good degreaser might also be your friend.

If can't separate but clean and button / collar / balls can be fully moved then its a rust problem on the implement shaft/inside yolk not a dirt problem. Then lots of rust buster / heat. A light tap towards the implement is often a solution. This takes time for fluid to get where it needs to go so can't rush the anti rust solution.

Not rocket science so patience, cleanliness, degrease, rust buster, and time be your friend.

 

[GeoHorn]

There’s an unusual situation with some implelments….. in the implement not having a “splined” shaft input… instead the drive-shaft attach-point being “smooth” and being held onto the implement with a “shear” bolt or “roll” pin….which must be driven-out before the shaft will slide off.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

pictures would help, what MFR/make/model is it ?
usually you can find manuals or 'parts pages' which really help is seeing HOW it's connected.
a few minutes on the web could save hours in the barn.

 

[mikester]

Try using a couple of these (don't beat on it) or one of these

 

[Bearcatrp]

Get a hand pry bar in there like this....

Robot or human?

Get a rubber mallet and smack the shit out of it to break it loose.

 

[icehorse]

Remove the shaft from the yoke and use a gear / pulley puller to pull the yoke off the shaft.
I assume that you removed the keeper bolt and checked for set screws.

with a small block of wood and zip ties, i've lashed the keeper bolt to the open position so that I can use both hands to deal with the rest. no set screws.

My concern with using any sort of pulley system is that i've already put close to a 1000 pounds of pressure on the yoke with no results. So at some point if I keep pulling harder and harder - say with a pulley system, i could damage the gearbox

.

 

[Bearcatrp]

Have you tried heating it a torch?

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

with a small block of wood and zip ties, i've lashed the keeper bolt to the open position so that I can use both hands to deal with the rest. no set screws.

My concern with using any sort of pulley system is that i've already put close to a 1000 pounds of pressure on the yoke with no results. So at some point if I keep pulling harder and harder - say with a pulley system, i could damage the gearbox

.

thats a great pic and I too would be worried about damage.... slow and steady this may take some time...... can you get the lock pin pushed in further to the point where it bottoms out?

lots of rust buster.... some counter clockwise twisting (can you block the tiller tines) and give the yolk a twist in opposite direction it normally runs.... a tap inwards versus pull to see if it break rust hold....twist the lock pin 180 degrees couldn't hurt either.

 

[icehorse]

thats a great pic and I too would be worried about damage.... slow and steady this may take some time...... can you get the lock pin pushed in further to the point where it bottoms out?

lots of rust buster.... some counter clockwise twisting (can you block the tiller tines) and give the yolk a twist in opposite direction it normally runs.... a tap inwards versus pull to see if it break rust hold....twist the lock pin 180 degrees couldn't hurt either.

yes, i think i could compress the lock pin a bit more..

Here's a different approach. Below is a picture of a standalone PTO slip clutch. A couple of questions:

1 - could that go on the tractor end?
2 - this one is too wide, are there smaller ones, or something like this but with a shear bolt?

The advantage of this is that I could also use it with my ancient tedder.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

yes, i think i could compress the lock pin a bit more..

Here's a different approach. Below is a picture of a standalone PTO slip clutch. A couple of questions:

1 - could that go on the tractor end?
2 - this one is too wide, are there smaller ones, or something like this but with a shear bolt?

The advantage of this is that I could also use it with my ancient tedder.


View attachment 171075

sure as long as you have the clearance with the pto cover etc... from a safety perspective though if you need to make more clearance by removing the pto stub it be exposed.

for extra length you could use a stub extender and they run about $30 and add 6"

they also make sheer bolt clutches that are more compact than the friction plated ones. This pic has a yolk end attached but you can get them with splined stubs as well.

or an overrun clutch

 

[icehorse]

sure as long as you have the clearance with the pto cover etc... from a safety perspective though if you need to make more clearance by removing the pto stub it be exposed.

for extra length you could use a stub extender and they run about $30 and add 6"

they also make sheer bolt clutches that are more compact than the friction plated ones. This pic has a yolk end attached but you can get them with splined stubs as well.
View attachment 171076
or an overrun clutch
View attachment 171080

So i've found examples of your top picture for sale. and that would work for my current situation.

And I like the dimensions of the overrun clutch. That said, I don't completely understand the difference tween an overrun clutch and a slip clutch but i'm told they are not interchangeable?

My ideal solution would be:

- a standalone shear bolt clutch with a 6" diameter or smaller
- a slip clutch adapter like I showed above, but with a 6" diameter or smaller. All the ones i've found are 7" diameter.

Or I could make a bigger safety shield for the tractor.

My gut says that stacking a slip clutch adapter onto a shaft extended is just not strong / too many points of failure.

If I get a new PTO shaft with a shear pin, or just a yoke with a shear pin, it would work for the tiller but it would not work for my tedder. i've wanted to add pto protection to the tedder. it's pto shaft is much. much longer than all of my other shafts. even longer than my brush hog shaft.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

So i've found examples of your top picture for sale. and that would work for my current situation.

And I like the dimensions of the overrun clutch. That said, I don't completely understand the difference tween an overrun clutch and a slip clutch but i'm told they are not interchangeable?

from the internet. each have different uses

A shear bolt clutch (or shear pin clutch) is a mechanical torque-limiting safety device used to protect driven machinery, such as PTO-driven agricultural equipment (rotary cutters, tillers), from overload damage by shearing a specially designed bolt when a specific torque limit is exceeded. It interrupts power by breaking the connection, allowing the driving and driven components to rotate independently. Shear bolt breaks and would need to be replaced. (cheap I buy them for pennies each)

A over-run clutch (or overrunning coupler) is a safety device attached to a tractor's PTO shaft that allows high-inertia implements (like bush hogs, mowers, and chippers) to freewheel to a stop without forcing the tractor forward or damaging the PTO brake when the transmission clutch is disengaged

A slip clutch is a protective safety device installed on tractor-driven implements to prevent gearbox, driveline, or tractor damage from overload or jams. It uses spring-loaded plates to allow controlled slipping (disengaging torque) when an obstruction occurs, rather than shearing a bolt or breaking parts.