I have an L3800 HST with about 25 hrs on it - mainly from FEL work. I just leave it in 4WD and use it all the time in this mode. Does it hurt anything to leave the unit in 4WD - when using it in either Low or Medium range on grass and sand ?
Problem with using 4wd all the time?
- Thread starter tk1469
- Start date
YES you'll add alot of extra wear and tear on the 4wd and eventually will break it. Its alot like on a SUV or truck, you dont want to run it in 4wd all the time. Kinda like how you never want to run a truck in 4 lo and hit highway speeds.
I run in 2WD until it is necessary to run in 4WD. Experience will tell you when to switch over.
For instance:
If doing FEL work sometimes it is necessary to drive the front wheels if the bucket or forks are carrying a heavy load. The back tires will lose traction at times even with substantial ballast. However, it puts a tremendous strain on the steering and front running components. I go back to 2WD as soon as possible.
For instance:
If doing FEL work sometimes it is necessary to drive the front wheels if the bucket or forks are carrying a heavy load. The back tires will lose traction at times even with substantial ballast. However, it puts a tremendous strain on the steering and front running components. I go back to 2WD as soon as possible.
From my understanding it is always the same. If there is an differential or visco-clutch that is handling the differences of the front and rear axle, it should work. But it will of course use up the lifetime of that device. If the manufacturer has calculated only 30% of 4wd-use it will not as long survive as the rest of the tractor...
If the 4wd selection is done with fixed gears, it will damage these much more over the time. And also rub the tires down...
That's what you read in other forums and in the manual of my Jeep Cherokee, which can block the mid-diff.
carl
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Thanks for your advice. All of my work has been on soft sand or grassy areas - so I don't think that tire wear will be an issue - but I wasn't sure if the 4WD mechanism would suffer if it was used all the time.
Your tractor is built differently from a truck or car- the components are heavier. Plus, all of the drivetrain turns all the time, whether 4WD is engaged or not. So, minus the load imposed on the drivetrain, the parts are still wearing out. If you are using the loader a lot, then being in 4wd distributes the work load to the whole drivetrain, which eases the load on the back axle. There are many pieces of equipment, like wheel loaders, ditch witches, etc. which are in 4wd all the time- they have been designed that way. I'd say don't sweat it, unless you are on hard surface- you will put excessive load on the drivetrain doing that. Otherwise, use it for what it was made for.
You probably aren't hurting it as bad running mostly in soft dirt as you would be on hard pack but I agree with the others and would try to use 4wd only when it's needed. Some tractors seem to pull more when they are in 4wd though. My 9000 doesn't act any different either way but it's very noticable on my 3000 when 4wd is ingaged. My old B 7100 was real bad. After I replaced the tires on it the front ones had a much deeper tread than the rear and it was so bad that I didn't even use 4wd on any hard surphase. I put new rubber on both ends at the same time but they were different brands.
I'll just leave it at this and what I know from a former job. Once apon a time I used to be a truck driver for a local dealership of the blue varity tractors. Hey it was a job and a paycheck. I went out one day to pick up a 4 wheel drive tractor, I think about 25hp, which had moving issues. So I winched it up on the rollback and carried it back to the shop. Come to find out the landscaper had been using the tractor in 4wd all the time pulling an aerator and tore out the front axle. Well the repair bill was estimated to be about $8,000 dollars to fix it.
Just a little food for thought....
Just a little food for thought....
Thanks Eric. Ouch ! Yep - food for thought. I'll be using it now in 2WD unless I have to.
Thanks to all of you!!
TK.
Thanks to all of you!!
TK.
Not sure I'd worry about wearing it out in 4wd in loomy soil etc with regard to the transmission, my dealer indicated to me the biggest wear it in 4wd they see on tractors left in 4wd alot is the front hubs/seals wear more quickly.
Sounds like you're on track with switching to it when you need it.
Sounds like you're on track with switching to it when you need it.
Without going into great detail. 2wd when 4wd is not needed. All the 4wd parts are turning in 2wd but have no load on them.
Glad I came across this thread today. I have ~28 hours on my L2501, and I would say 90% of them have been with the tractor stuck in 4wd. Ive been working almost entirely on the same single project since I got my tractor back in May - clearing woods to expand our yard, so its a lot of loader work, lifting heavy logs, pushing tree tops into piles for burning, then box blading the area, then running a disc harrow. I have tried a few times to just run in 2wd but seem to hit something just 20 minutes later that needs 4wd, so I have just left it in there. I was just under the assumption that its made to work, and work in 4wd so no big deal. I guess I need to rethink that and be more conscious of taking it out of 4wd.
On some of the scenarios I may could get by by engaging the Differential lock instead of 4wd. Is this a better solution? If say I just have to make a short, but heavy run of something, to just hold the differential lock in for that duration? What are the limitations of the differential lock? I think Ive only ever used it like 2 or 3 times. I find it hard to tell if its engaged, and Im a small, thin build dude, so I find pressing and holding the pedal in a little cumbersome, it has so much resistance to hold it in. With my Disc harrow, the tractor will not even pull it without 4wd. It is a bit too big really for my little L2501, but does a fine job in 4wd. Based on what Ive read here though I'm likely putting a lot of strain on my front end pulling it.
On some of the scenarios I may could get by by engaging the Differential lock instead of 4wd. Is this a better solution? If say I just have to make a short, but heavy run of something, to just hold the differential lock in for that duration? What are the limitations of the differential lock? I think Ive only ever used it like 2 or 3 times. I find it hard to tell if its engaged, and Im a small, thin build dude, so I find pressing and holding the pedal in a little cumbersome, it has so much resistance to hold it in. With my Disc harrow, the tractor will not even pull it without 4wd. It is a bit too big really for my little L2501, but does a fine job in 4wd. Based on what Ive read here though I'm likely putting a lot of strain on my front end pulling it.
Tornado, if you're clearing woods your tractor is never in a situation where one tire can not spin causing a binding in the drive train. You are fine leaving it in 4 wheel drive all the time there. Only time you need to not have it in 4 WD is on solid ground like concrete or asphalt, where a tire has difficult time to break lose from the surface.
No, you are not straining your 4wd with a disc harrow in the field. Most of the posts in this thread do not seem to understand how 4wd (or front wheel assist)works. Basically, when in 2wd you are really in 1wd because as soon as 1 wheel hits a slippy spot that wheel starts spinning and you are going nowhere. With 4wd engaged the front wheels are spinning slightly faster than the rears and can pull you out. At no stage, with a normal compact tractor do you ever have 4wd. You will have 1 back wheel and 1 front wheel working unless you engage the diff lock (in which case you will have 2 rear wheels and 1 front wheel working). If your tyres are sized properly for your tractor, then driving in 4wd on soil or sand (or any other moveable surface) will not adversely affect your tractor, whether you are going straight or turning.
However, trying to turn with the diff lock engaged will put tremendous strain on everything because the 2 back wheels are locked together and therefore both wheels want to travel the same distance at the same speed.
Basically, on a standard compact:
2wd=1wd
2wd+diff=2wd(both rear)
4wd=2wd(1 front+one rear)
4wd+diff=3wd(both rear +one front)
It it NOT recommended to use 4wd or diff lock on solid surfaces except for loader work where you are losing traction on the rear and are basically in 1 wheel drive (1 front wheel but both front wheels will be your braking wheels because they are connected to your back wheels via the driveshaft)
It’s not an accurate description of what’s going on to say in 2 wd you have 1 wd, and 4 wd you have 2 wheel, one front one back .
Differentials are one of the most misunderstood things, post #30 in this thread I explained what’s actually happening in a open differential and how they behave. You didn’t waste your money on 4wd, you actually have 4wd.
Four-wheel drive; Not all tires turning
https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42843
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Well this is kind of how I have always felt regarding 4wd, Even on my ATV. On hard surfaces like asphalt, concrete, etc, you should never run 4wd. I took that basic understanding to my new tractor and thought that out on my property, and at such slow speeds, 4wd wouldnt hurt it at all. But I am not a tractor mechanic like many on here.
I tend to run 4wd full time in the woods just because it seems to handle better when lifting logs and when pushing piles. 4wd makes a massive difference on the 2501 I feel. There are many tasks I could probably perform in 2wd, but It just feels like the tractor works harder to do it, strains harder. Would I be better off to stay in 2wd and power through these moments? Im talking like just driving a heavy load 20 yards to a pile or something. I can probably do it in 2wd, but it just drives better under that load in 4wd it feels to me, but Its not really necessary Id say. Ive also been trying to not run the tractor at 100% throttle doing this job in the 50 hour break in period. Max rpm on the 2501 is 2400rpm or so, and I will let it run around 2000 rpm, but I have kinda let that be my max for the most part. Im likely giving up a little power doing this, but Im just trying to do what Im supposed to do. I want this tractor to still be running in 8, 9, 10 years from now. I try to take care of myself and do things properly. Then others tell me "Its a tractor man, get out there and work that thing, its made to work"
I tend to run 4wd full time in the woods just because it seems to handle better when lifting logs and when pushing piles. 4wd makes a massive difference on the 2501 I feel. There are many tasks I could probably perform in 2wd, but It just feels like the tractor works harder to do it, strains harder. Would I be better off to stay in 2wd and power through these moments? Im talking like just driving a heavy load 20 yards to a pile or something. I can probably do it in 2wd, but it just drives better under that load in 4wd it feels to me, but Its not really necessary Id say. Ive also been trying to not run the tractor at 100% throttle doing this job in the 50 hour break in period. Max rpm on the 2501 is 2400rpm or so, and I will let it run around 2000 rpm, but I have kinda let that be my max for the most part. Im likely giving up a little power doing this, but Im just trying to do what Im supposed to do. I want this tractor to still be running in 8, 9, 10 years from now. I try to take care of myself and do things properly. Then others tell me "Its a tractor man, get out there and work that thing, its made to work"
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I only use 4WD as a last resort. Matter of fact, i have never used the differential lock on this tractor since day one when i bought it brand new.
Sometimes less is more
Sometimes less is more
^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ive always went with this view of it.
every 4wd drive tractor ive had/have stays in all the time.
you need it when you need it, not when you have to decide you need it. i need it 98% of the tine im on it with only a few exceptions of tooling around the flat part of the yard or when i head down to the gas station to fill it up.
BigG
Well-known member
Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
If there is no reason to take the tractor out of 4wd why was it built to do so? It would be cheaper to leave the needed levers, etc off the machine.
I had a MF 1528 that was poorly designed and I broke the front axle off when I hit a hidden bull hole in a field. In order to repair the 4wd it was going to run way over $1000 which was not going to happen there was no way to fix the poor design. I used that tractor for years as a 2wd without any problems.
The tractor should not be in 4wd all the time. As an operator you will not realize when damage is being done to the tractor due to the internal stresses caused by the tire rubbing or binding as you travel over different surface conditions. Hard ground can be just as damaging to the 4wd system as concrete. To demonstrate this, place the tractor in 4wd and make a sharp turn in soft ground, do the same on hard pack and then on pavement of some type. You should observe the difference in the sound and the feel of the tractor. The soft or muddy soil there is not much of a resistance in the steering wheel nor stress or pulling of the engine. Now try the hard pack and the pavement.
The hard pack will not produce the steering wheel resistance or the engine pulling sound like the pavement but you will hear and feel it come and go.
The conclusion is the extra stress added by 4wd on pavement is not good for the machine so the extra stress added by running on hard pack is not good for the machine either. Since you as an operator can not tell what is hard pack or not as you drive your tractor across an area it would behoove you to use the 4wd only when needed.
In addition how many threads have there been talking about the tractor being stuck or hard to get out of 4wd? And the response is to rock the tractor or pick up the front end with the FEL to unbind the 4wd. Any machine that is running in a bind is causing wear and tear on the machine as opposed to a machine that is turning freely. Therefore in order to save wear, tear and fuel unbind that machine when the 4wd is not needed.
I had a MF 1528 that was poorly designed and I broke the front axle off when I hit a hidden bull hole in a field. In order to repair the 4wd it was going to run way over $1000 which was not going to happen there was no way to fix the poor design. I used that tractor for years as a 2wd without any problems.
The tractor should not be in 4wd all the time. As an operator you will not realize when damage is being done to the tractor due to the internal stresses caused by the tire rubbing or binding as you travel over different surface conditions. Hard ground can be just as damaging to the 4wd system as concrete. To demonstrate this, place the tractor in 4wd and make a sharp turn in soft ground, do the same on hard pack and then on pavement of some type. You should observe the difference in the sound and the feel of the tractor. The soft or muddy soil there is not much of a resistance in the steering wheel nor stress or pulling of the engine. Now try the hard pack and the pavement.
The hard pack will not produce the steering wheel resistance or the engine pulling sound like the pavement but you will hear and feel it come and go.
The conclusion is the extra stress added by 4wd on pavement is not good for the machine so the extra stress added by running on hard pack is not good for the machine either. Since you as an operator can not tell what is hard pack or not as you drive your tractor across an area it would behoove you to use the 4wd only when needed.
In addition how many threads have there been talking about the tractor being stuck or hard to get out of 4wd? And the response is to rock the tractor or pick up the front end with the FEL to unbind the 4wd. Any machine that is running in a bind is causing wear and tear on the machine as opposed to a machine that is turning freely. Therefore in order to save wear, tear and fuel unbind that machine when the 4wd is not needed.
I got a chuckle out of hope to float's post. Thanks for clarifying it for those who really don't get it.
Now he/she is accurate in that if you are in 4x4 and both your right front and right rear tires are on ice, but your left front and left rear tires are on dry pavement, and you are headed up hill...likely the only two tires that will spin are the ones on the ice. Power always goes to the path of least resistance through an open differential like these tractors have, except when the rear diff lock is engaged. But the big caveat is that when the traction surfaces are roughly equal across a differential, power is sent to both wheels. Having 4x4 at least gives the opportunity for power to flow to any of the 4 wheels, unlike a 4x2 machine in which power can only flow to the two wheels on the same axle.
My take on keeping 4x4 engaged all the time...so long as the surface you are operating on is not "high traction" (concrete, pavement, stone, etc), you are not going to break the tractor. Accelerated tire wear, probably. Nevertheless, if you don't need 4x4 engaged, there is no reason to use it.