Good day. From early next year, I plan to build an elevated deer blind with pole barn/post construction…actually I plan to use perma-columns with mechanically fastened 3ply 2x6 posts. If I am going to the trouble to build it, I want to do it once so I believe(hope is a better term)it needs to last me 30+ years…My question is this…what have you used for the footer/base under a pre cast concrete pier? And why? What recommend if doing over? I am thinking pre formed footer (pre cast footing almost like a really thick paver). Other thoughts? ( I don’t have a simple way to construct / haul water or have running water at the construction location). Please advise. Thank you in advance for your considerations.
Post Hole Foundation Question
- Thread starter rc51stierhoff
- Start date
fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
When my Morton Building was built, Morton simply bored the holes, dropped in a bag (100lb.?) of dry cement, set each 6x6 post in the hole, and filled with dirt.
My building has been standing for 38 years to date, and everything is still good.
Ground moisture will harden that bag of dry cement to a concrete like footing.
When I built my deck, I just drilled the holes, put in the Sonotube, and poured the concrete. After a while, it started to settle and the deck was moving. I dug new holes and used a plastic footing that the Sonotube sat on, and filled with concrete. Put solid concrete blocks on top of the new tubes and jacked up the deck till it was level again. The old tubes had settled about 2 1/2". The new tubes haven't settled at all. I guess that it depends on the type of soil that you have.
As DustyRusty said, soil type matters.
I have used stone in our hard clay. But the plastic disk thing will be my next choice.
I have used stone in our hard clay. But the plastic disk thing will be my next choice.
In lieu of cement, have you looked into the Fast 2K product? It's strong and the post will not rot like it does with cement, it's like using a two part epoxy and you don't need to haul water to the site.
How long has that product been in use? The wood post would still be below grade correct? I believe/think the perma column eliminates the rotting issue below grade…I have a Morton similar to what Fried suggested also, so I am sort of set in the pre cast pier mechanically fastened…it’s not free but for me it’s piece of mind. So I am really just thinking about footing under the perma column to reduce likelihood of settling/sinking.
The best way in my opinion is what I did with the 2nd stage of my deck build. Use the plastic footers and Sonotube, and pour a concrete pillar to a foot off the grade. Then use the heavy-weight galvanized metal brackets to connect to your pillars. That way they are off the ground and protected from moisture and rot.
Look at the installation instructions here: https://permacolumn.com/products/perma-column-system.html
Look at the installation instructions here: https://permacolumn.com/products/perma-column-system.html
How big? I built my 8x8ft, 10 ft high blind with using 4" block on the base of the legs and just added dry concrete and back filled. 4 years and no movement or frost heaving
I am still considering floor/landing and stair layout…so it’s sort of pending, but the deck/floor will be a minimum of 8x8’ and as close as possible to 16’ floor height.
My floor is 10ft, over 18 ft at the top of the roof. So, you'll need to think about getting a ladder out there.
Sorry I don't have any pic's to share, my bad.
Don't forget to bring some comfortable furniture, a small heater, and possibly an air mattress to sleep on.
Outnumbered
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L3901, FEL, BB1260, RCF2060, FDR2572, Titan Forks, Caryall, 5' Tiller
I have a nice office chair in mine and have been considering a heater. Next will be plumbing and I might be able to rent it in the off season as an AirBnBDon't forget to bring some comfortable furniture, a small heater, and possibly an air mattress to sleep on.
Outnumbered
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L3901, FEL, BB1260, RCF2060, FDR2572, Titan Forks, Caryall, 5' Tiller
Mine is about the same. I used some old telephone poles and then built an 8x8x8 on top. Made a ladder that goes through a trap door on the floor so nothing to fall through once you are up and close the door. I even put carpet on the floor to quite me moving around from time to time. I have had some good naps up on there over the last several years.
I've used it with a mailbox. Post lasted 11 years then I found the box took a nosedive. Wood rot.
What I did find out is that it would have fared better if I left the foamy stuff higher than the mulch. But the same applies with concrete. When I reset it, I used concrete and tapered the concrete up the post an inch or two. Like a pyramid.
My posts in concrete with gravel at the bottom outlasted the mailbox. There was no dirt or mulch around the bases.
I believe the key is to keep the top clear and something (foam, concrete whatever) to seal the bottom.
Yes, I think the key is to keep the soil away from the post. I had heard also that there's two types of treated posts, one is ground contact approved and the other is not, maybe someone can correct me on this. I had seen where a guy coated the post from ground level up to about 6'' with something like roofing tar.
Indeed. Many folks use pressure treated wood. While not a horrible idea, the ground contact is a better choice. There is also marine grade. Ground contact is also recommended for stringers, joists and other hard to reach or structural parts even when above ground.
One of the products you probably are referring to as a coating is Copper Coat. It's a sealer used on the subterranean portion of posts.
I'm sure cost is a factor, but fence and deck companies typically use pressure treated and not ground contact. Code permitting. Save $2 per post over the year and it adds up quickly.
At my local Lumber yard the pressure treated are green tagged and ground contact is yellow. I'm talking about the tags stapled to the end of the post.
The concrete can form a cup with the post sitting in it. Pressure-treated lumber invariably shrinks since it's not dried after treatment. Then water fills the cup and the post stays wet. Even ground-contact isn't designed for that. Some people set the post in gravel before pouring the concrete so the cup doesn't have a bottom and the water can run through. This isn't a very good solution if the post is carrying a heavy vertical load. The roof cement helps seal the water out.
The directions for the Fast 2K does say that one should place gravel in the bottom first then the post. Fast 2K does offer different types of products, one for deck posts and the other for fence posts.
I wanted to mention to those that may think about using this Fast 2K in lieu of cement, there's a couple different manufacturers and if you choose the Fast 2K brand, one good source is ordering it from Menards. I checked Amazon and with Prime, it was about $10 more per bag, I ordered 4 bags from Menards, was charged about $10 for shipping, saved over $30 by not going through Amazon. Home Depot & Lowes didn't have it.