Parents ought to be ashamed of themselves

PHPaul

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How many here remember math flash cards? Or reciting the "times tables"?

My sixth grade teacher, Mrs. Anderson (she was some sort of kin to our family) used to start every math class by doing a series of oral calculations. She'd recite a string of operations ..."Five plus Seven, divided by Three, minus One, times Twelve, divided by Two.." etc and the class was required to keep up in their head and have the correct answer at the end.

Don't even get me started on being able to write a coherent and grammatically correct sentence, much less a paragraph or (the horror!) an essay.
 
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PHPaul

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What K-12 school(s) do you know of that are teaching 'critical race theory'?
Several states and the NEA are trying to make it mandatory. Thank the Good Lord all my kids and grandkids have at least graduated high school. Not that most colleges are any better these days.
 
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NCL4701

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How many here remember math flash cards? Or reciting the "times tables"?

My sixth grade teacher, Mrs. Anderson (she was some sort of kin to our family) used to start every math class by doing a series of oral calculations. She'd recite a string of operations ..."Five plus Seven, divided by Three, minus One, times Twelve, divided by Two.." etc and the class was required to keep up in their head and have the correct answer at the end.

Don't even get me started on being able to write a coherent and grammatically correct sentence, much less a paragraph or (the horror!) an essay.
I remember flash cards and similar exercises well. Gave me a good foundation in basic arithmetic.

From an employer standpoint I’m honestly more interested in whether someone has a grasp of math sufficient to put together a coherent spreadsheet than the ability to make manual calculations in their head or with pen and paper. Having that foundation of manual calculations seems to really help with that. Anything that is handwritten is questioned to death by the recipient these days but if a computer spit it out of a printer it’s assumed to be correct regardless of whether it is or not.

Worked with a guy on a short assignment one time years ago who said he did all math in his head so he wouldn’t lose his sharp math skills. He was running dozens of multiplication calculations in his head and adding up long columns of numbers. Screwed up everything he did so it all had to be redone. Due to a dearth of available managers, somehow I became the de facto manager of the local operation. The rest of us got tired of redoing everything he touched so I told him to just go sightseeing, hang out at the hotel, or whatever but he was done with working. He accurately pointed out that we were same level so I didn’t have the stripes to do that. I pointed out that while he was technically correct, the rest of the team was so incensed with him, I did have the ability to arrange a “blanket party” for him if he didn’t wish to comply. He wasn’t familiar with that concept so I explained it to him and he complied with my request. I believe that was my first management experience. Hasn’t gotten any better.
 

Geezer3d

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Several states and the NEA are trying to make it mandatory. Thank the Good Lord all my kids and grandkids have at least graduated high school. Not that most colleges are any better these days.
NY claims that they are not teaching CRT, but they are teaching the teachers something so similar that I can't see the difference.
 

ctfjr

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Several states and the NEA are trying to make it mandatory. Thank the Good Lord all my kids and grandkids have at least graduated high school. Not that most colleges are any better these days.
I have no dog in this fight but am trying to understand exactly what critical race theory is. Whether the fringe right or the fringe left is defining it, both definitions are pretty inflammatory.
From what I read the middle ground seems to be promoting teaching those facts relating to race or ethnicity that may have been glossed over or simply ignored in the past.
History is, well, history. The facts are the facts - there are no alternate facts. Things I was never taught in K-12 that I wish I an opportunity to discuss then:
1) the real cause of the civil war
2) what were Jim Crow laws
3) how much land did we steal from the indigenous people and how many treaties did we break with them
4) Tulsa race massacre
5) how the Chinese immigrants were treated while building the transcontinental RR
6) segregation in general
7) how were certain immigrant types treated and why (Irish, Italian. . .)
. . .

We live in a great country. Imperfect but great. If some want to bury their heads in the sand and make believe they live in Utopia they surely can. That doesn't change the past. Knowing that these things happened and why they did will only make us a better country.
 
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motionclone

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last 2 or 3 generations need a pill or 5 of some sort to get through or deal with life. This HAS to be whats causing them to be so dumb. These meds mess with the brain in ways we just dont fully understand.
 

jimh406

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Critical Race Theory isn’t about discussing anything. It’s about indoctrinating kids with a new way to look at all events of history and crushing any dissent. I personally think it’s telling if it is called a “theory”. Facts and discussions aren’t required.
 

WFM

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I remember home education class with Mrs Locke. ...I sewed the nicest cooking apron you'd ever seen. Even had one pocket with lace on it. A wonderful class that was full of girls...we cooked , stitched , sewed and had a blast. Today I can still sew on a button that will never come off.
And yes I learned debits and credits in Mr Lebroke's boring economic class.
 
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Kurtee

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The owner of my local watering hole mentioned to me one time that he was thinking about going cashless because so few people pay cash. I told him that I always pay cash when I am drinking at a bar. I do not want a record of how many beers I drink or how often. It's not that I drink a lot or often, I just don't think it's anyone else's business.
AMEN
 

mcfarmall

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What K-12 school(s) do you know of that are teaching 'critical race theory'?
According to the MSM (that tells the truth religiously 🤣) none at this time, however, many K-12's are considering it and colleges & universities are heartily endorsing it to complement the Marxist teachings already in place.
 

lugbolt

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there is a lot of truth to a lot of the posts here.

There is also a lot of truth to the fact that although kids now may not be as smart in some areas that we are/were, they're much smarter in other areas.

I used to work at a tractor dealer. I was the oldest employee including the boss (and that's all he was, a boss). They hired a young lady to work in parts and we quickly found out that age 17, she knew 50x more than we did about using a computer. That in itself was always a challenge for us since the business system that they were using was so overly complex that none of us old geezers could figure it all out. She it down pat in about a minute and a half. But she can't do math in her head. She'd hit the start button, then type calc, hit enter, and have it calculated up in about 2 seconds. Seriously like 2 seconds. But that's why they hired her. Not very personable, not great with math or language or english, or even redneck language, but she knew computers and with what she was doing (checking in parts) she was (is?) very good at it. Well so long as she stays focused-which is whole other topic.

WE (old guys) got smarter as we aged. We look back at young'ns and think they're stupid. They're ignorant maybe not stupid, though there is some amount of stupidity among young'ns. ignorance is not knowing. Stupidity is knowing and doing it wrong anyway. That's my definition anyway. Ignorance is just natural because they ain't lived yet. Give 'em 30 or more years, "life" will smarten them up. They just don't know it yet.
 
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torch

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Maybe it's different down south, but I just spent the last few months supervising a young grandson doing his schooling on-line as the classrooms were closed due to Covid.

The kids learned clocks and how to make change. They had electronic flash cards every day. They wrote stories or poems every day. There was geography, history, social studies, science, art and French. They also had computer programming class.

Every morning, the students rose to sing the national anthem before the principal recited a math problem and a trivia question and challenged the kids to be first to e-mail him their answers.

We used to pass paper notes, today's kids chit-chat behind the teachers' backs by using software such as Discord; the more things change, the more they stay the same.

There wasn't any race theory, but they did explain to the kids what the residential school system was when the unmarked graves surrounding some of the schools were discovered.

Gym class was the most challenging, but the kids were encouraged to do individual physical activities during the allotted time: ride a bike, go swimming, follow along with a dance video on you-tube.

Frankly, I don't know what the hell you people are grousing about. For the last 8 years, I have been a mentor for the local high school robotics program. The kids design, prototype, build, wire, program, test, troubleshoot, refine and compete their robots from scratch using CAD, lathes, mills, CNC routers, 3D printers, sewing machines, welders and plasma cutters.

A couple of years ago, we had a senior mining engineer come by to check out what his company sponsored and ended up tapping the students about 3D printing because they had more practical experience in rapid prototyping than he did.

They raise the funds, creating business plans and presenting them to potential sponsors. They create and present the web pages and the spreadsheets and the speeches. Then they mentor the Lego robotics programs in local elementary schools.

Not every kid can do every thing. But if you give them a fair shake, you might just be surprised at what they can do.
 
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chim

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Celebrated a birthday earlier this week, and an acquaintance asked how old I was. Replied "6 dozen". He looked at me, squinted and said "I'm not good at math, how many is that?"
 
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85Hokie

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Celebrated a birthday earlier this week, and an acquaintance asked how old I was. Replied "6 dozen". He looked at me, squinted and said "I'm not good at math, how many is that?"

Glad you did not try to trick him with a baker's dozen!!!!




Others have said that the students have learned "other" things - and yes I agree with that, but one thing that no computer, laptop, or cell phone can teach the student -

How to look at someone in the eyes and carry on a conversation. A skill set that cannot be learned via a computer .............. think about how many times your father or mother said - LOOK AT ME when I talk to me!!!!



I took 2 students to a job interview in a robotic factory about 8 years ago.......
one very smart with CAD the other not so - but good at building and working well with others.

The manager took me a side to speak to me.....

I asked him WHAT 3 things he wanted to see in a new hire........ these are his words verbatim :

1) They need to give a sht!

2) They need to come to work daily and not call out or be late!

3) They need to give a sht!

I about fell out the chair ........... but damn he was soooooooooooooo right!!!!!!!
 
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twomany

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The problem is that it is still taught that the Irish potato famine was due to potato blight.

GIGO
 

ccoon520

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Every generation sees the following generation as coddled and lazy. Think back to your childhood. Do you remember being told "back in my day," "you kids have it easy," "when I was growing up," etc. by a parent or grandparent? If anyone here says no I would call lies. They weren't wrong they did have to work hard but for fewer results when they were growing up. Can you imagine your grandparents farming 10 thousand acres with 10 employees (including their kids)? I didn't think so. That's because we as humans make technological advances to make life easier, more efficient, or just to make more money. That is what we do. I mean 100 years ago, the only way to cross the ocean was by ship. Let me put that in perspective, there are people alive today that when they were kids the best form of transport across the ocean was a 3 week trip in a ship.

When I was in school the excuse for math (and that is what it was for most) was you won't be carrying around a calculator in your pocket (which has aged very poorly). People learn from experience and that is something that takes time. I mean I can do some fairly complex (up to about precalc stuff) math in my head if needed but I use it basically everyday for my job. However, ask me to right a 5 page essay with correct citations without using the internet I would be able to right the paper but the citations would be entirely wrong and only have like 2 sources anyway. I don't use that skill often enough to apply it very well anymore.

All I am getting at is that generations aren't getting dumber but that instead the kid may not have used math in a long while, or they were nervous because it was their first "real job," or they could just be terrible at math because some people are. I know 60 year old's who can't add 2, 3 digit numbers together on a piece of paper let alone in their heads. Also they aren't getting lazier but instead the focus of their jobs are shifting. There are high schoolers now who can write in 5+ different coding languages, as well as, English while I work with 50 year old's who don't know the difference between were and was in an email. As was mentioned earlier kids are designing and 3d printing their own parts for stuff. The world is constantly shifting and the goalposts are moving in different directions all the time depending on what industries need. At some point a welder might start (or may already be I don't know) getting paid more than a programmer because that is what is needed.
 

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A couple of things that are not addressed when education is being discussed. One being that there is a significant percent of students that are not actively learning because they have no personal desire to do so nor do their parents or guardians.

Those individuals disrupt and cause chaos for the other children and teachers. There is not really anything that the teachers can do about it. Years ago when I went to public Junior High school it was a fiasco, then in high school most of those individuals had turned 16 and quit so it wasn’t quite as bad in those years. Now they have passed a law where no one can quit until 18 years of age. That does nothing for them learning it just prolongs the problem behavior and it’s affect on the learning environment of others.

It's an education system installed by government and ends up dumbing down the students to allow them to be equal.
 
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torch

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A couple of things that are not addressed when education is being discussed. One being that there is a significant percent of students that are not actively learning because they have no personal desire to do so nor do their parents or guardians.

Those individuals disrupt and cause chaos for the other children and teachers. There is not really anything that the teachers can do about it.
They wrote stories or poems every day.
I'll add that this was not my grandson's favourite part. Especially the poems. One day the assignment was to write a 5 line poem. 1st line was to be a noun. Second two adjectives. Third line, three verbs; fourth a four word phrase about the noun. 5th a synonym. After a small explosion, he set forth with vengance in his heart and venom in his pen. Here was his submission:

Poems.
Boring, boring
Sleep, nap, doze
I hate writing poems
Rhyme.

I hid around the corner and eavesdropped as he presented it to the class. The other kids sat in stunned silence. After a moment, the teacher burst out laughing. "Well, you followed the rules!" was her comment.

All kids rebel sometimes. It takes a special kind of teacher to handle them well.
 
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Old_Paint

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The problem is that it is still taught that the Irish potato famine was due to potato blight.

GIGO
Yes, parents share the responsibility for the failing education system. Let's examine that.

In the 60's, schools were very structured, rules were set, and any transgression was met with swift justice by the teacher. The principal's intervention was reserved for extreme cases such as violence toward a teacher, expulsion, or suspension, and that nearly always included a paddling. Continued disobedience was generally met with treatment at the local sanitarium with a steel rod up the nose to correct the behavior. 'Promiscuous' girls were usually sterilized. "Delinquent" boys were usually pressed into service in the armed forces. Either way, poor behavior had a rather extreme cost. Poor behavior existed, disrespect occured, but there was a fear factor that certainly garnered respect of authority.

In the 70's, schools were still fairly structured, however, teachers were softened up a little, and a little more permissive with open discussion in the classroom. They were more 'woke' about the events of the time, and the possible impacts on kids who were wondering if Daddy was coming home from Vietnam. Laws were enacted to limit corporal punishment to only the most heinous offenses (using a pocket knife in a school fight, discharging a firearm in the parking lot). Lobotomies ceased. Military draft/conscription went away, ergo, no legal means of forcing young men into the military. Disobedience is on the rise, ergo, so is learning on the decline.

In the 80's, no lessons were really learned in the 70s, so more laws were enacted to try to completely eliminate corporal punishment (which ultimately succeeded). Teachers had to have parents' permission to correct children, and were losing control of the classrooms. This angered a lot of older teachers who felt their services were for naught, so they stopped teaching and used their tenure to ride the retirement gravy train. Education dumb-down begins because kids who aren't taught don't learn. It must be the school's fault.

In the 90's the parents who went to school in the 60's and 70's never wanted their kids paddled or even spoken to harshly in the schools. Again, mayhem ensues through lack of discipline, and school becomes a daycare center for kids that won't mind either their parents nor any other authority figure. More racial tension is fomented by the indoctrination of how bad Whitey is. Children of color choose not to cooperate nor learn from the instructors that were predominantly white (mostly because of the effects of economics and availability of funding for educating non-Caucasian teachers). So, the obvious solution is to stop teaching the white kids too. No child left behind. (Doesn't this also mean no child gets ahead?)

I sometimes wonder if the snow-ball effect of limiting the authority of teachers and the schools can be reversed to correct the real problem (lack of discipline) in our school systems. There are no real consequences for poor behavior nor not trying to learn, other than aging out (19 years old max in Alabama) of the public school system without any documentation (diploma) that they are willing to achieve anything. Even the GED has been dumbed down because the mathematics questions were deemed unfair and racist. That is perhaps the most mind boggling statement I've ever seen. I'm clueless how mathematics and logic can be racist, but apparently they are. Our public schools have to have interpreters for kids that can't speak the language that somehow arrived day-before-yesterday and have a 'right' to an education, but they can't prove they're not invaders or illegal immigrants.

I'm not pointing my finger at anyone in particular, just pointing out the fact that without rules, discipline, and performance standards, an education system cannot succeed. If that does not happen, then I'll give you three guesses what happens to future versions of the education system that is run by the people that the one before failed. Snowball's chance in hell of correcting this without a lot of conservative effort and planning. Lowering the standards because some cannot succeed is obviously not the answer.
 
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Henro

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Whatever you do, don't balme the people you are paying to tech them. The teachers today are ruining the kids today.
I used to say to the kids, teachers have it made! Part time work, full time pay! I should have been a teacher!

Then the younger daughter and the older daughter's husband became teachers. They put in a LOT of hours outside school hours trying to do what they need to for the kids.

So maybe those who speak poorly of teachers should reevaluate what they think they know.

I know I did...