Operating BX's FEL on pavement?

[GreX]

This question has been pinging around in my head for some time now, and I'd like to get the opinions of this crew.

I know that you're not supposed to run these tractors (BX 2380 in my case) in 4x4 mode when on pavement or other hard surfaces, but curious how you all go about operating the FEL on pavement? I have been asked by my neighborhood to help clean up our road's side, we have about .4 mile of road, which is paved, that has an easement (which was trashed this year by the plows) which needs to have some loam and seed put down. We do have a rise on the road, which I'd feel a bit unsafe operating the FEL on without the tractor in 4x4 mode, but maybe that's not such an issue with its a paved surface? So, my question; is it safe to do this tractor work in 2 wheel mode, or do I put it into 4x4 mode knowing it may damage the axles/transmission? OR do I tell them to rent the same tractor from the Home Depot, and drive it like they stole it?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[DustyRusty]

If you are going straight then it will not have any effect on the 4-wheel drive. The problems are when you are steering and turning with 4 wheels engaged on pavement and the tires can't slip because of the grip of the pavement on the tires.

 

[Kurtee]

Ballast? I figure with enough weight on the 3 point hitch it should not be a problem if certain cautions are observed. One caution would be to not overload the bucket. I would suggest a little trial and error on level ground to see how it works out. Keep the load low and go slow in treacherous conditions with a hand on the loader control to drop the bucket if needed. Just remember that bad things happen when trying to hurry. Also if working on a public road a stobe would be a good idea. There are battery powered ones with magnet mount available. Also magnetic ones that go into a power point. (for old guys, the cigarette lighter port)

This brings to mind one of my youthful experience. Dad had a 550 Oliver utility with loader. 2 wheel drive and poor brakes. The cow yard was on a hillside. When cleaning that you needed load the manure spreader on the slope. Made life interesting. If you got in the wrong position the tractor would take off down hill backwards. With presence of mind you just dropped the buck and stopped. If not you ended up at the bottom of the hill, about 100 yard. No 4 wheel drive with a gear drive transmission was a learning experience.

Be careful out there. If it doesn't feel safe, it most likely isn't.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This question has been pinging around in my head for some time now, and I'd like to get the opinions of this crew.

I know that you're not supposed to run these tractors (BX 2380 in my case) in 4x4 mode when on pavement or other hard surfaces, but curious how you all go about operating the FEL on pavement? I have been asked by my neighborhood to help clean up our road's side, we have about .4 mile of road, which is paved, that has an easement (which was trashed this year by the plows) which needs to have some loam and seed put down. We do have a rise on the road, which I'd feel a bit unsafe operating the FEL on without the tractor in 4x4 mode, but maybe that's not such an issue with its a paved surface? So, my question; is it safe to do this tractor work in 2 wheel mode, or do I put it into 4x4 mode knowing it may damage the axles/transmission? OR do I tell them to rent the same tractor from the Home Depot, and drive it like they stole it?

Thanks,
Greg

Unless you persist in making donuts while in 4WD you are not likely to damage the drivetrain.

You will however wear the tires faster straight line and turning. My 20+ year old B7200DT has seen lots of dry and snowy pavement in 4WD. The new L3901HST as well and tire wear on it is far more pronounced than the little B.

I cant imagine any added risk of personal injury operating a tractor in 2WD on dry pavement.

Dan

 

[trial and error]

Not directly relatable but I operate my b7100 in 2wd as much as possible even on non hardpack,and even when using the homemade FEL. A lot of it is about knowing your machine and what it will and will not do safely and even on the edge of safely. I don't have ROPS so there is also that. I do however have a "large" comcrete counterweight hanging off the 3ph. BTW this is probably bad advice coming from an amature so keep that in mind and take it with a grain of salt :/

 

[19thSF]

If you are going straight then it will not have any effect on the 4-wheel drive. The problems are when you are steering and turning with 4 wheels engaged on pavement and the tires can't slip because of the grip of the pavement on the tires.

Hello DustyRusty,

An alternate thought on running in 4WD. When 4WD is engaged, the front tires, by design, will cover slightly more ground than the rears. This is done to maintain steerage. The fronts are actually "pulling" the rears very slightly. Not a problem on a soft yielding surface. On a hard surface the result is front tire wear. Not that much, but enough over time to be noticeable. If the tires in use are not the same circumference as the original specified tires, the problem will probably be worse. I don't engage 4WD unless the situation calls for it. That is just what I do, others may do something different

Bob

 

[chim]

Hello DustyRusty,

.......................I don't engage 4WD unless the situation calls for it. That is just what I do, others may do something different

Bob

Same here. When scooping from a pile 4WD is needed at times. An alternative to going in and out of 4WD would be to use the diff lock as needed.

There's always some amount of binding in 4WD, and there have been lots of discussions whether it causes undue wear on the front drive components when on a paved or solid surface. I'm in the group that prefers to avoid the potential of excess wear.

 

[Grandad4]

Are you just scooping and transporting the loam? Maybe leveling it out also? Shouldn't need 4wd for that. You do need adequate ballast/counterweight at the back of the tractor for safety and to help the rear tires maintain traction. If you were working with heavier material like gravel or if the pavement was slippy for some reason, you would want the 4wd engaged.

 

[RBsingl]

I have owned JD compacts for years and when I first was looking at the Kubota forums before ordering my F2690, I was surprised at how many people leave their tractors in 4WD all the time in orange land.

I have some steep slopes and hilly areas where I engage the front wheels on my Deere 955 compact when using the midmount and rear mowers but it is used only when needed. I also use it on flat grass when doing heavy pushing work with the loader but the amount of time when 4WD is needed is very limited. Of course it gets used when plowing snow.

The only time I have used it on dry pavement is with a heavy load going downhill when I want all four wheels to help with the braking. As noted by a prior poster, by design the axle spin rate is not the same front to rear so there is always the need for some slippage to relieve "wind up" which isn't an issue on grass or other surfaces where tire slip can easily occur. Systems designed for full time 4WD use on high traction surfaces have a center differential to allow split between the front and rear axles.

With the loader, if you are operating up/down a steep slope then low range with front wheels engaged is needed. If you are operating across a steep slope with a loader, you shouldn't be. My Deere 955 is very stable with the rear wheels in the wide position and one area of roadside ditch I mow requires 4WD with the steer wheels turned fairly sharply to go straight but there is no way I would operate a loader on that same slope.

Rodger

 

[GreX]

Thanks all for the replies, I forgot that I turned off email notifications, so assumed this received no responses.

It sounds like the group is pretty split on the 2wd vs 4wd, but there is consensus around ballast, taking it slow, and only operating the tractor where feels safe.

I would need to scoop, move, and level (maybe less so here as they said they'd use some manpower with shovels) the loam, the road is mostly flat, with a slight hill that I would need to go up for the final area that needs some attention. I believe I have enough ballast; loaded rear tires, mid-mount mower, and the power bagger off the back to operate the FEL with a mostly full bucket. There would be some need to turn on the pavement, which is where my original concern came from when having this machine in 4wd mode - interesting to hear from this crew that the tractor would also be at risk when going straight due to the different gear ratios (but also makes sense with the different sized tires). It sounds like I should give it a go in 2wd (possibly depress the diff-lock lever), and see how safe it feels, and if it's even a bit shaky, suggest they rent a BX from the Home Depot, and run it inn 4wd.

Thanks all!

 

[RBsingl]

It sounds like you have things set up fine and ready to go. IF you can grab a photo of the area of the rise (step back so that we can get a good view of the area of concern plus the lie of the land around it), people can offer better guidance and any specific cautions about how to approach any trouble spots.

I have a lot of small hills and steeply sloped areas on my property which is a major reason I went with a F2690 front mount mower instead of a zero turn. I have used my Deere 955 and loader throughout the property including near a creek that flows through the pasture. I work carefully in those areas with proper rear ballast, proper tractor placement, and most importantly keeping the bucket low except when it actually needs to be high to dump. Traveling with a raised loaded bucket is a great way for something to go wrong.

And even with the front wheels engaged, with turf tires it is easy to get stuck if you get into light mud so don't try this stuff after a rain. And wet ground makes loader work around slopes FAR more dangerous.

Note that if you do manage to get stuck, you can often pull yourself out with the loader. Angle the bucket so that the lower lip is at an angle that will bite into clean ground and then roll the bucket to help pull (or push as needed) the tractor. I have had to use this maneuver a few times when clearing my long gravel pasture drive after a combination snow/ice storm, the FEL can move the tractor far enough to work it out of a rut the wheels have dug.

Rodger

 

[Grandad4]

In and out of 4wd is easy on a BX, you can even do it while moving (but keep the wheels straight!). You can go in/out of 4wd as needed. 4wd for scooping material, 2wd for transit, back into 4wd for slopes, etc. Main thing is avoiding 4wd use on hard, dry surfaces when added traction is not needed, which is hard on the drivetrain.

 

[Jasonized]

In and out of 4wd is easy on a BX, you can even do it while moving (but keep the wheels straight!). You can go in/out of 4wd as needed. 4wd for scooping material, 2wd for transit, back into 4wd for slopes, etc. Main thing is avoiding 4wd use on hard, dry surfaces when added traction is not needed, which is hard on the drivetrain.

Oddly enough, I have a heck of a time getting out of 4wd on my 3902…
I have to stop, turn the front all the way to a stop, then i can push down to get it out.
getting into it is easy enough, but out? Not so much…

 

[RCW]

Oddly enough, I have a heck of a time getting out of 4wd on my 3902…
I have to stop, turn the front all the way to a stop, then i can push down to get it out.
getting into it is easy enough, but out? Not so much…

Might be a testament to the front’s having a little more travel than the rears.

If you have the loader on, just lift the front tires a little and it might pop right out.

 

[RBsingl]

Oddly enough, I have a heck of a time getting out of 4wd on my 3902…
I have to stop, turn the front all the way to a stop, then i can push down to get it out.
getting into it is easy enough, but out? Not so much…

Have you tried shifting between forward and reverse (let it move a short distance each direction) to get it to release?

Rodger

 

[Jasonized]

Have you tried shifting between forward and reverse (let it move a short distance each direction) to get it to release?

Rodger

Yep…. quite a few times. Took me awhile before I found the “magic” position On steering. Didn’t think to try lifting the front end off the ground. Could be an issue if the fel is full, though. I’ll give it a try, as I’m about to go out and do some more “tractoring stuff”.

 

[Grandad4]

Oddly enough, I have a heck of a time getting out of 4wd on my 3902…
I have to stop, turn the front all the way to a stop, then i can push down to get it out.
getting into it is easy enough, but out? Not so much…

My comment was specific to the OP's BX... little and light, comparatively small drivetrain, etc = generally easy 4wd in/out. At least mine was. Over time my much larger Grand L got easier to shift also. But it was more sensitive to how it was being used. Did not want to engage/disengage unless front wheels had been travelling totally straight for several feet, for example. Once that condition had been met, it went in/out of 4wd easily.
I also found using the range selector and 4wd selectors often made them work easier. The linkages will remain stiff and hard to use if they are not used very much.
Finally, keeping linkages clean, well lubed and protected from the elements is really good practice.

 

[torch]

We do have a rise on the road, which I'd feel a bit unsafe operating the FEL on without the tractor in 4x4 mode, but maybe that's not such an issue with its a paved surface?

I take it the rise is the cause for concern, having read many times to use 4wd when operating on hills because the front wheels don't have brakes?

While it is true that the braking power of the rear axle is shared with the front axle in 4wd, it's really only an issue if the rear wheels are losing traction and the tractor is sliding down the hill out of control. In that case, the additional traction of the front wheels may be of benefit.

In other words, 4wd does not provide any additional braking power, just additional traction. So while 4wd may be beneficial on dirt, sand or wet grass (conditions that allow some slippage between axles), it won't help any on high-traction surfaces that might bind the 4wd system.

The inverse is also true: 4wd is useful scooping from the pile when operating in conditions that otherwise otherwise spin the rear wheels alone. Engaging 4wd does not provide any more power -- the engine delivers what the engine delivers, no more, no less. 4wd merely adds traction so that power can push deeper into the pile. If you push into the pile and the rears start spinning, try engaging 4wd. If you push into the pile and the engine lugs down, 4wd won't help.

As for driving around with the diff lock engaged: Don't.

The rear axle has two brakes, one on each wheel. The diff lock is only for balancing power from the engine to the rear wheels when one is spinning on a slppery surface -- ie: when the force being applied to the wheels is coming from the engine side of the differential.

However, braking force is applied directly to the wheels; the differential is not a factor. IMHO driving around on a high-traction surface with the diff lock engaged is even MORE likely to cause tractor damage than engaging 4wd on that surface!