One of my wheels fell off of my B2650 hydrostatic drive.0

[Goldsmith1]

Ok, when he removed the axel flange from the front gear case, a shim was found pushed inside of the the hole on the gear case marked in red in my picture. This is confusing because they only show a shim marked in blue in my picture that is to shim the bearings on the axel flange. Did the last person I had work on replacing seals in the wheel not install things correctly? Is the front gear case supposed to have a shim along with the one on the axel flange that I have marked in blue?

He installed a shim in the front axle of case because of finding the one bent up inside of the front gear case and then installed one where it is marked in blue on the axle flange.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Ok, when he removed the axel flange from the front gear case, a shim was found pushed inside of the the hole on the gear case marked in red in my picture. This is confusing because they only show a shim marked in blue in my picture that is to shim the bearings on the axel flange. Did the last person I had work on replacing seals in the wheel not install things correctly? Is the front gear case supposed to have a shim along with the one on the axel flange that I have marked in blue?

So someone's been in there before?
Why?

There should not have been a shim in the case where the Red circle is.
If the shim in blue was left out and it was run like that it could have worn the outer case.
With the front tire off the ground check for slop top and bottom not front to back because front to back could very well be steering gear slop or wear as @whitetiger pointed out.

 

[Goldsmith1]

So someone's been in there before?
Why?

There should not have been a shim in the case where the Red circle is.
If the shim in blue was left out and it was run like that it could have worn the outer case.
With the front tire off the ground check for slop top and bottom not front to back because front to back could very well be steering gear slop or wear as @whitetiger pointed out.

One of the seals started leaking, so that is why. If I grab the tire at 3 and 9 o'clock i get the slop. If I grab it at 12 and 6 o'clock I can't really tell because the entire front assembly wants to pivot at the center point. Suggestions?

 

[Henro]

One of the seals started leaking, so that is why. If I grab the tire at 3 and 9 o'clock i get the slop. If I grab it at 12 and 6 o'clock I can't really tell because the entire front assembly wants to pivot at the center point. Suggestions?

Jam something in temporarily on both sides of the pivot point, then try again…

Or maybe jack the front end up in the air using the axle on one side as the lift point?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes only lift one front tire off the ground.

 

[Goldsmith1]

Just a thought, watch your inner and outer tie rod ends while you are rocking the wheel in and out by hand.

I did that yesterday late and no movement.

 

[Goldsmith1]

So someone's been in there before?
Why?

There should not have been a shim in the case where the Red circle is.
If the shim in blue was left out and it was run like that it could have worn the outer case.
With the front tire off the ground check for slop top and bottom not front to back because front to back could very well be steering gear slop or wear as @whitetiger pointed out.

I was able to lift that wheel off of the ground yesterday. With my hands at 12 and 6 it has a slight rock just like when I do it with hands 3 and 9.

The mechanic that put the wheel back on is now ghosting me. I know it's all going to have to be pulled apart again. What is your recommendation on this. I know that extra shim needs to come out and since I've got to do it I am going to replace the bearings. I know I'm going to have to drain all of that new oil out. Can I reuse that or should I replace? If I replace, should I go with the heavier gear oil or stick with the UTD oil from Kubota? I have a press so I can do the bearings and I can check for visible signs of damage. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help and everyone else's help!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I was able to lift that wheel off of the ground yesterday. With my hands at 12 and 6 it has a slight rock just like when I do it with hands 3 and 9.

The mechanic that put the wheel back on is now ghosting me. I know it's all going to have to be pulled apart again. What is your recommendation on this. I know that extra shim needs to come out and since I've got to do it I am going to replace the bearings. I know I'm going to have to drain all of that new oil out. Can I reuse that or should I replace? If I replace, should I go with the heavier gear oil or stick with the UTD oil from Kubota? I have a press so I can do the bearings and I can check for visible signs of damage. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help and everyone else's help!

I don't know how you / he added an extra shim?
There is only one shim in there.

Replacing the bearings are a good step, but the bearings being worn is probably the least likely place for you to have slop, the more likely is that it's got case wear.
You need to measure and inspect the cases.
You shouldn't have to press any of the bearings on or off, they should be tolerance fit.

You can reuse the fluid (as long as it's clean), and no do not put heavier fluid in it, that will do you no good.

 

[Goldsmith1]

I don't know how you / he added an extra shim?
There is only one shim in there.

Replacing the bearings are a good step, but the bearings being worn is probably the least likely place for you to have slop, the more likely is that it's got case wear.
You need to measure and inspect the cases.
You shouldn't have to press any of the bearings on or off, they should be tolerance fit.

You can reuse the fluid (as long as it's clean), and no do not put heavier fluid in it, that will do you no good.

Thank for the reply! It will be a few days before I can tear it apart. I will let you know what I find.

 

[Goldsmith1]

Thank for the reply! It will be a few days before I can tear it apart. I will let you know what I find.

I don't know how the first guy added that shim. The guy who put the wheel on put it back where he found it even though he had the exploded view pictured above. Obviously both of these guys shouldn't be working as tractor mechanics if they can't follow the picture for the reassembly or in the first guys case, remember how it was disassembled so he could do the job correctly.

 

[Dustball]

I wouldn't necessarily criticize the guy for putting in another shim. The WSM says shims as plural and there's different thicknesses given depending on which version B2650.

 

[Goldsmith1]

I wouldn't necessarily criticize the guy for putting in another shim. The WSM says shims as plural and there's different thicknesses given depending on which version B2650.

View attachment 132712

View attachment 132713

How do you know which shim to use? I got both and to be honest believe he may have installed both of them in the correct position and reused one in the incorrect location.

 

[Goldsmith1]

How do you know which shim to use? I got both and to be honest believe he may have installed both of them in the correct position and reused one in the incorrect location.

Considering he had an exploded view printout from the dealer and they circled the shim showing where it went, he has no excuse.

 

[Goldsmith1]

Considering he had an exploded view printout from the dealer and they circled the shim showing where it went, he has no excuse.

I'm sorry it has taken me a little while to get back to this. We unfortunately had a death in the family and I had to purchase a jack and jack stands, along with cleaning up my building some so I could get it inside. Here are some images of what I found during tear down. I obviously circled everything that I think is or was an issue.

Pictures in order
1. Shows where the planetary gear rubbed on the inside of the housing.

2. Shows the shim that fell out when I pulled apart and was install in the incorrect side of the housing and against the completely opposite bearing. Was installed with sealant so it would stay in the housing while he installed it.

3. Shows pieces of a collar that I found inside of the housing when I pulled it apart. On top of a full collar to show how much was still inside floating around.

4-5. Shows the collar pieces inside of the housing when I pulled it apart.

6. Shows the grit from where the housing was rubbed by the planetary I assume. Lots of grit inside.

7. Shows the parts that were inside when I pulled it apart. You will see the two shims. The thin shim was installed in the wrong opening on the opposite side of the housing it was supposed to be installed in. The thicker shim was installed in the correct place.

I do have more pictures if needed and can go back down to the building to take more. It was mentioned above that I should take measurements of the housing. I believe around where the bearings are installed. I have not found any literature that tells me what those measurements should be. Should I be measuring to see if the measurement is the same around the opening where the bearings go? Measure wall thickness of that area?

I appreciate all help given.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm sorry it has taken me a little while to get back to this. We unfortunately had a death in the family and I had to purchase a jack and jack stands, along with cleaning up my building some so I could get it inside. Here are some images of what I found during tear down. I obviously circled everything that I think is or was an issue.

Pictures in order
1. Shows where the planetary gear rubbed on the inside of the housing.

2. Shows the shim that fell out when I pulled apart and was install in the incorrect side of the housing and against the completely opposite bearing. Was installed with sealant so it would stay in the housing while he installed it.

3. Shows pieces of a collar that I found inside of the housing when I pulled it apart. On top of a full collar to show how much was still inside floating around.

4-5. Shows the collar pieces inside of the housing when I pulled it apart.

6. Shows the grit from where the housing was rubbed by the planetary I assume. Lots of grit inside.

7. Shows the parts that were inside when I pulled it apart. You will see the two shims. The thin shim was installed in the wrong opening on the opposite side of the housing it was supposed to be installed in. The thicker shim was installed in the correct place.

I do have more pictures if needed and can go back down to the building to take more. It was mentioned above that I should take measurements of the housing. I believe around where the bearings are installed. I have not found any literature that tells me what those measurements should be. Should I be measuring to see if the measurement is the same around the opening where the bearings go? Measure wall thickness of that area?

I appreciate all help given.

Your going to have to start from square one because you don't know what size the original shim(s) were or should be.

Start by cleaning all of the junk, debris and gasket sealer off of all the cases and parts.
You want it spotless to be able to measure, inspect, and dry fit all the parts.
Clean and wash parts with brake parts cleaner.


Inspect the bevel gear to make sure this lip is in good shape, as it holds the keepers in place.
Also inspect the teeth on the smaller bevel gear in the inboard case for any damage.

Next you need to inspect the case for wear or bearing slop here, the bearings should fit snug in the case.
Also inspect the bearings for any non smooth movement when you roll them.

Now inspect the cases for cracks or deformities, especially in this area.

This is for later reference this the ONLY place a shim will go, between the case and the bearing.

 

[Goldsmith1]

Your going to have to start from square one because you don't know what size the original shim(s) were or should be.

Start by cleaning all of the junk, debris and gasket sealer off of all the cases and parts.
You want it spotless to be able to measure, inspect, and dry fit all the parts.
Clean and wash parts with brake parts cleaner.


Inspect the bevel gear to make sure this lip is in good shape, as it holds the keepers in place.
Also inspect the teeth on the smaller bevel gear in the inboard case for any damage.
View attachment 134107
Next you need to inspect the case for wear or bearing slop here, the bearings should fit snug in the case.
Also inspect the bearings for any non smooth movement when you roll them.

View attachment 134108
Now inspect the cases for cracks or deformities, especially in this area.

View attachment 134109
This is for later reference this the ONLY place a shim will go, between the case and the bearing.


View attachment 134106

View attachment 134099
View attachment 134102

Thank you very much. I will have to go down the mountain from our place to get some brake cleaner. So it will be tomorrow sometime before I can do that. I will report back what I find. Again, thank you for your time!

 

[PaulL]

I also note, although you probably already worked it out, if there's gunk and pieces inside, you're probably not reusing the fluid. Unless you strain it really really carefully. I wouldn't.

 

[Goldsmith1]

I also note, although you probably already worked it out, if there's gunk and pieces inside, you're probably not reusing the fluid. Unless you strain it really really carefully. I wouldn't.

I had planned on reusing it but will now replace after your comment. Had hoped to get back into this yesterday but after almost three weeks of too wet weather, I was able to cut my grass yesterday before it poured down again.

 

[Goldsmith1]

Your going to have to start from square one because you don't know what size the original shim(s) were or should be.

Start by cleaning all of the junk, debris and gasket sealer off of all the cases and parts.
You want it spotless to be able to measure, inspect, and dry fit all the parts.
Clean and wash parts with brake parts cleaner.


Inspect the bevel gear to make sure this lip is in good shape, as it holds the keepers in place.
Also inspect the teeth on the smaller bevel gear in the inboard case for any damage.
View attachment 134107
Next you need to inspect the case for wear or bearing slop here, the bearings should fit snug in the case.
Also inspect the bearings for any non smooth movement when you roll them.

View attachment 134108
Now inspect the cases for cracks or deformities, especially in this area.

View attachment 134109
This is for later reference this the ONLY place a shim will go, between the case and the bearing.


View attachment 134106

View attachment 134099
View attachment 134102

I have cleaned everything up and to my untrained eye (I'm a retired jewelry designer and goldsmith) I think everything is ok except for both sets of bearings. The bearings that go on the axel with the larger inner diameter have the same slop as the wheel did. So those are shot. The other set are not spinning freely and you can feel the grit in them. The other area of concern for me is the grove in the axel for the collars. When you slide the collars into the groove all the way, should you be able to move the collars up and down inside of that groove?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

for sure buy Kubota bearings and install them.

as for the collar gap....
I'm thinking that they dry assemble the parts, look at the 'gap' then tear apart, install a 'shim', reassemble and check the 'gap' again. Guy doing this on the assembly line probably picks the correct shim 1st time,(he's done it 1,000s of times...) you might have to do this operation 2-3 times. Pretty sure you want a silky smooth snug fit,with no noticeable 'gap'.