? on heater cab

[hillbilly162]

I got me a cab for my tractor but now looking in to a heater for it what type of heater should I look for

 

[chim]

I got me a cab for my tractor but now looking in to a heater for it what type of heater should I look for

I use one of these (plumbed into the engine coolant) and it works great.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northern-Un...y-Heater-20-000-BTU-UTV-Tractor-/390651155578

 

[hillbilly162]

ok thank now how to install on of these

 

[tcrote5516]

I used this one and it works perfect. The second link show's you my install complete with pictures and notes.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-991101-1/overview/

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16065&page=2

 

[OldeEnglish]

I'm curious how a fan coil would tie into a b7100's siphonic system seeing that the coolant is not pumped. I would think if it was spliced in to divert the water it could trap the flow and also create an air lock.... Maybe the fan coil has a port to install a manual coin vent or even an automatic air vent to bleed the coil. I just can't picture how the hot water would flow through all those twists, turns, ups, and downs without being pumped Maybe if there is an electric control valve in between the T's to automatically divert the flow through the fan coil.... I'm sure it been done before somehow but I'm just a curious plumber trying to further my education with these old tractors

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

OldeEnglish brought a very good point, the b7100 has a thermo siphon system (no water pump, so no forced water movement), your going to need an electric 12 volt hot water circulation pump in order to move water.

 

[OldeEnglish]

I think this project is more complicated than one would think, but I always say if there is a will there's a way... I'm thinking he is going to need 2 pumps and pipe it in a primary/secondary loop fashion. One concern I have is that the motor wont produce enough heat that can be pumped through the coil to produce a toasty warm cab....I say that because I've felt my radiator inlet on a chilly day and it was warm, but not hot (180deg is a typical heating temp). Tomorrow I will draw a few ways that I know will flow water properly, and ill explain my thoughts clearly. Wolfman and everyone else that knows these tractors blindfolded can then tell you if it will work.

 

[chim]

I'm curious how a fan coil would tie into a b7100's siphonic system seeing that the coolant is not pumped. I would think if it was spliced in to divert the water it could trap the flow and also create an air lock.... Maybe the fan coil has a port to install a manual coin vent or even an automatic air vent to bleed the coil. I just can't picture how the hot water would flow through all those twists, turns, ups, and downs without being pumped Maybe if there is an electric control valve in between the T's to automatically divert the flow through the fan coil.... I'm sure it been done before somehow but I'm just a curious plumber trying to further my education with these old tractors

Oops. Good catch. I wasn't aware of that system being on that model.

 

[hillbilly162]

so reading all these im thinking it not worth putting in a heater seems that it may not be done but not gonna give up

 

[skeets]

So maybe something like this?

http://www.my12voltstore.com/Road_Pro_12_Volt_Direct_Hook_Up_Ceramic_Heater_p/rpsl-681.htm

 

[hillbilly162]

ok after doing so thinking and after reading what some said about a pump this is what I came up with first pix is of heater I thinking of using and the second pix is of a hot water pump now if I hook this up right I should get nice and hot is the cab anymore ideas please tell me cause all you guys are helping me out a great deal thanks

 

[85Hokie]

so reading all these im thinking it not worth putting in a heater seems that it may not be done but not gonna give up

Despite the charging system on B7100 - I think Skeets nailed it !
Place it where you want too, down low! and have a relay set up that you blow a fuse if there is ever a problem, might not melt snow off an icecube, but will keep something warm - PLUS - and a big plus - you will not need to wait till the engine heats up !!! YOU will have heat long before the radiator does!!!!

I like the KISS method ! Keep it simple, stupid !

(reading one of the blogs on that heater.....made a good point.....300 watts is a boat load of amps on the system - IF IT IS producing 300 watts of power. (300/12 ish = 25 ish amps) I would look over the wiring system carefully and have an external relay and fuse system)

 

[OldeEnglish]

 

[OldeEnglish]

This method is used in a variety of different applications and works extremely well, it's basically how a high efficacy heating system is piped. We use it both ways....to inject hot water into a loop or it can be used to draw off a heat loop to feed a zone (what you are trying to do). I believe you may also have to add a radiator cover that you can cover/expose to regulate the heat that will be lost through the radiator. It won't be an easy project to complete but it's certainly doable. These guys can help you on the electricity side of the project, I am no help there, electricity is not my forte.


When sizing your pumps, the Primary pump will have to flow more GPM than the secondary pump. If the secondary pump is too strong it has the possibility to "short cycle" within the secondary injection loop (within the 2 T's). Having a secondary pump that has a speed control to regulate the flow would be optimal because that give you a way to adjust the flow and balance the system.

Now if you don't add a belt driven primary pump, your opening a door to a list of flow problems. One may think that only a secondary pump could be added, supplying the fan coil from the outlet of the engine returning to the inlet side of the engine. It's not a closed loop system so that would leave the possibility of the fan coil loop circulating the coolant through the radiator and not the engine where the heat is produced. The only way to avoid that is to add in a few check valves but I don't think that is a good idea. If I'm confusing anyone please let me know, I'm trying to describe all this as simple as I can.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Let us simplify this a little more, Get the drive in adapter for the freeze plug that will give you a hot water output in a 3/4" NPT size, that to the heater, threw the heater back to a pump (less heat load on the pump being on the return side of the system) then tee into the bottom radiator hose, pump is triggered by turning on the heater.

 

[OldeEnglish]

Let us simplify this a little more, Get the drive in adapter for the freeze plug that will give you a hot water output in a 3/4" NPT size, that to the heater, threw the heater back to a pump (less heat load on the pump being on the return side of the system) then tee into the bottom radiator hose, pump is triggered by turning on the heater.

Think about this Wolfman....
Without a primary loop pump flowing coolant within the primary loop in the direction it's supposed to, what will stop the secondary pump from reversing the flow in the primary loop or short cycling the flow through the radiator and not the engine that produces the heat? Don't forget it is an open loop system to begin with that is not pumped.... A check valve would have to be placed at the radiator outlet on the return side to direct the flow to the engine and not to the radiator. With a siphonic system not being pumped, the coolant doesn't have any force to open the check valve and keep the flow in the primary loop moving in the proper direction.....

Remember, when water moves, it takes the path of least resistance. What you guys are thinking of is what I see happen a lot in residential heating systems. Someone splits 2 zones into 1 with T's instead of making one longer continuos loop or splitting them into two separately pumped zones. Can it be done with adding some balance valves? Yes... Will it work to perfection, NO. It's very difficult to make them completely balanced, and if you get it tuned in, one air bubble is enough to stop the flow to one branch of the T's resulting in one end of the zone that is cold.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

OldeEnglish,
It won't matter, as you will be pumping from the warmest location, freeze plug, to a colder location lower hose, if there is not enough heat in the motors outlet of the lower hose to still cause it to rise threw the radiator, then you don't need the extra cooling.

The heater is going to pull more heat while running than the thermo siphon system could ever do.

 

[OldeEnglish]

Right on, sometimes I think too much

I have no idea why there is an angry face in the title....

 

[Tooljunkie]

I have to agree with the wolfman. Could do away with rad all together for winter use. Heater will cool engine without issue.

 

[OldeEnglish]

Absolutely, even if I was to do this I would try it wolfmans way first.