Not a Kubota... but I need a bit of help on this tractor

[Butch]

Folks my best friend has an ancient Case IH 245 compact tractor mid to late 80"s vintage. The Case 7QA loader Control Valve is just flat out worn out and is going to be fitted with a replacement valve.
I have attached a diagram showing the OEM's valve installation to the 245. All I can see are two lines connecting the valve to the hydraulics block plate on the tractor. I see no oil to sump return or maybe a separate power beyond line.
Could this be a simple IN and Out on the valve? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance... Butch

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes, old skool, simple ! probably 'open center' so cheap to replace too .

 

[Old Machinist]

That just looks like a dual control open center valve set. It doesn't illustrate enough hose connections to operate a loader.

You can probably retrofit it with a joystick type loader control valve. I would pull one of the hoses loose and identify what adaptor type and size the valve currently uses and see if you can find one that uses the same hose adaptors.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Folks my best friend has an ancient Case IH 245 compact tractor mid to late 80"s vintage. The Case 7QA loader Control Valve is just flat out worn out and is going to be fitted with a replacement valve.
I have attached a diagram showing the OEM's valve installation to the 245. All I can see are two lines connecting the valve to the hydraulics block plate on the tractor. I see no oil to sump return or maybe a separate power beyond line.
Could this be a simple IN and Out on the valve? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance... Butch

It worked but its a poor design. Replace it with a open center loader valve with a power beyond port .He will need to add a tank return hose to the two existing hoses. Personally I would dump the two sticks and spend a bit more for a vakve with joystick control The link below is just one of many possibilties.

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

FREE SHIPPING This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Folks my best friend has an ancient Case IH 245 compact tractor mid to late 80"s vintage. The Case 7QA loader Control Valve is just flat out worn out and is going to be fitted with a replacement valve.
I have attached a diagram showing the OEM's valve installation to the 245. All I can see are two lines connecting the valve to the hydraulics block plate on the tractor. I see no oil to sump return or maybe a separate power beyond line.
Could this be a simple IN and Out on the valve? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance... Butch

Looking a little closer at the diagram item #8 looks like it might be a plugged tank port. The legend for that diagram would be helpful.....

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Unlike the other posters, I suggest you just replace with a similar valve, No need to 'upgrade. The problem with upgrading is need to add more hoses, additional plumbing, mounting new valve,etc. Heck, I'm surprised someone hasn't said to just 'replace the WHOLE tractor with a totally different, new' one' !
My 'loader' tractor had a similar 2 spool valve, early 60's, still works......no need to upgrade.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Unlike the other posters, I suggest you just replace with a similar valve, No need to 'upgrade. The problem with upgrading is need to add more hoses, additional plumbing, mounting new valve,etc. Heck, I'm surprised someone hasn't said to just 'replace the WHOLE tractor with a totally different, new' one' !
My 'loader' tractor had a similar 2 spool valve, early 60's, still works......no need to upgrade.

There is a very real reason to replumb the system. The tank circuit in most modern control valves cannot handle power beyond. pressures. Specifically the tank ports are designed for 400-500 PSI max, If you start pressurizing the tank port to 2400 PSI seals can and do fail. Do not expect the manufacturer or distributor to warrant your new valve if you use the tank port for pressure beyond..

There are plenty of other reasons not the least of which is back pressuring the tank circuit will prevent the inlet relief from functioning. A simple cross section to illustrate the point. If you use the tank port in Figure 1 for power beyond the area in blue will see full down stream hydraulic pressure (2000+ PSI). The same valve with power beyond sleeve shown in Figure 2 isolates the tank cores from the high pressure flow going to down stream valves and the relief valve can now dump excess pressure via the unobstructed tank port.

 

[RCW]

Butch - I think you replaced the valve on your tractor not long ago?

You should be in a good position to fix your friend’s tractor as well.

Sounds like Dan has some great advice to make it better.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

My point is the OP used the current valve setup for the better part of 4 DECADES and the simple.easy solution is to buy the same valve. In less than 1/2hr, he'd be back 'up and running'. No time wasted trying to 'spec' a new PB valve, modify to fit it, extra hoses, connectors, adapters, modifying the hydraulic tank.

This goes in the 'if it worked fine for 40 years, NO need to 'upgrade' category

 

[TheOldHokie]

My point is the OP used the current valve setup for the better part of 4 DECADES and the simple.easy solution is to buy the same valve. In less than 1/2hr, he'd be back 'up and running'. No time wasted trying to 'spec' a new PB valve, modify to fit it, extra hoses, connectors, adapters, modifying the hydraulic tank.

This goes in the 'if it worked fine for 40 years, NO need to 'upgrade' category

Its a 40+ year old valve. If he could get the same valve he probably would not be asking this question.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Folks my best friend has an ancient Case IH 245 compact tractor mid to late 80"s vintage. The Case 7QA loader Control Valve is just flat out worn out and is going to be fitted with a replacement valve.
I have attached a diagram showing the OEM's valve installation to the 245. All I can see are two lines connecting the valve to the hydraulics block plate on the tractor. I see no oil to sump return or maybe a separate power beyond line.
Could this be a simple IN and Out on the valve? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance... Butch

Here is the Messicks parts diagram for the loader hydraulic outlet block used on ths IH 245. Its the exact same idea as the current Kubota outlet and has pump, power beyond, and tank ports. The joystick valve I linked would be a simple drop in replacemenyt

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

well after 10 minutes of googling , I see that there are at least two versions of hydraulics for that loader 'old skool' and 'power beyond' ! Depends on serial number of the loader, according to one post of one 'hit'
OP's drawing is different than the Messick's version,so may not be the same.....
Also found 3 places selling the valves, around $2K.....yeesh.....,though again, without pictures or actual part numbers hard to compare 'apple to apples'. Someone must have the 'details', like PSI and GPM cause you don't want to plumb in a lesser rated valve !

 

[TheOldHokie]

well after 10 minutes of googling , I see that there are at least two versions of hydraulics for that loader 'old skool' and 'power beyond' ! Depends on serial number of the loader, according to one post of one 'hit'
OP's drawing is different than the Messick's version,so may not be the same.....
Also found 3 places selling the valves, around $2K.....yeesh.....,though again, without pictures or actual part numbers hard to compare 'apple to apples'. Someone must have the 'details', like PSI and GPM cause you don't want to plumb in a lesser rated valve !

I dont need to consult Google. I have configured dozens of these compact tractor valves and the requirements and hookup are standard

1. Purchase any generic P40 loader valve and the power beyond sleeve to go with it. Cost around $275 or less.
2. Connect the existing P hose to the P port on the P40
3. Connect the existing T hose to the N port on the P40
4. Purchase a new hose and connect it to the unused (plugged) port on the outlet block. Connect the other end to the T port on the P40.

The new hose and any additional hydraulic fittings needed to match the P40 ports might add another $75 to the cost of the valve.

Dan

 

[JohnDB]

Folks my best friend has an ancient Case IH 245 compact tractor mid to late 80"s vintage. The Case 7QA loader Control Valve is just flat out worn out and is going to be fitted with a replacement valve.

Butch if your best friend loves his/her tractor and intends to keep it, (and if there's the space for it) consider an extra valve or 2 with the joystick unit. They don't have to be plumbed in but could be for a future something useful like a hydraulic top link for the 3 pt hitch. Those links are life-alteringly useful, extremely good value if your friend uses implements on the back.

 

[Butch]

That's another consideration... space is really limited on this thing. Alternate valve mounting options is even more limited... Retrofitting my valve was pretty straight forward... I'll keep you all posted..

 

[Butch]

Folks my best friend has an ancient Case IH 245 compact tractor mid to late 80"s vintage. The Case 7QA loader Control Valve is just flat out worn out and is going to be fitted with a replacement valve.
I have attached a diagram showing the OEM's valve installation to the 245. All I can see are two lines connecting the valve to the hydraulics block plate on the tractor. I see no oil to sump return or maybe a separate power beyond line.
Could this be a simple IN and Out on the valve? Thoughts?
Thanks in advance... Butch

Guys! Here is a follow up on the Case IH 245 hydraulic valve change over. With all the help I got from you all and suggestions as to where to look for additional info on his tractor.... I found ALL the hydraulic diagrams from the tractor, to and through the valve and then on the the bucket cylinders.
In hind sight it appears I was over thinking it... but in my defense and speaking from experience.... not thinking something through and playing the odds that I was right could sometimes end up costing more time, money and heartburn.

Thanks again folks for your time, attention and help!