No oil to oil filter!?

[Tarmy]

This is engine oil...

Just went and did my annual service. Drain oil (probably only 30 ish hours since last year ) and the oil looks about the right color for those hours. Pull the filter...not one drop has gone into or through that filter...uh oh...

Drained about the correct amount too.

No oil pressure lights (it does light like all the instrument lights at start up). No over heating/ hot running engine. no Smokey exhaust.

I have the shop manual and have gone through that. All they show is a schematic of how engine oil flow. The troubleshooting guide has a few things to check. Oil pump...stuck/clogged relief valve basically.

i cannot figure out where the relief valve is...spent a good amount of time trying to figure it out...can’t. Any direction on the valve location would be great...

so what do I need to be looking for?

L2800 that has run great...no issues till this. 2008...with about 275 hours total.

Help...appreciate any suggestion...

 

[aaluck]

That's weird. Sorry I'm no help but Ill be interested to see the comments.

 

[Bmyers]

I'm not a mechanic, we had a car once that did that and the mechanic stated it was a failure of the bypass value. I don't know if tractors have that, again, I'm not a mechanic. As far as I know the mechanic could of been lying, yet, the car worked fine once he was done with it and oil was in the filter at the next change.

 

[SidecarFlip]

The 'relief / bypass valve is in the oil filter itself. Should I assume you did not use a genuine Kubota filter but instead a cheapo knockoff?

Filters, especially engine oil filters are not all created equal. Sounds to me like a faulty filter.

 

[Tarmy]

The 'relief / bypass valve is in the oil filter itself. Should I assume you did not use a genuine Kubota filter but instead a cheapo knockoff?

Filters, especially engine oil filters are not all created equal. Sounds to me like a faulty filter.

Nothing but Kubota parts...for everything...

with the filter off...the feed tube looks clear...for all of the 3 inches you can see down.

i appreciate your response. I put a new KUBOTA oil filter on even though the old one never saw a drop. I have not refilled the oil...figuring someone here may have me check something...

since I have a new filter on...and have never had this issue before...that I should fill it and fire it up and see if this filter allows oil into it. If the relief filter is as you say (in the filter itself) then maybe I got a bad OE filter.

Again...thank you for the taking the time to respond to my predicament...

 

[BigG]

Nothing but Kubota parts...for everything...

with the filter off...the feed tube looks clear...for all of the 3 inches you can see down.

i appreciate your response. I put a new KUBOTA oil filter on even though the old one never saw a drop. I have not refilled the oil...figuring someone here may have me check something...

since I have a new filter on...and have never had this issue before...that I should fill it and fire it up and see if this filter allows oil into it. If the relief filter is as you say (in the filter itself) then maybe I got a bad OE filter.

Again...thank you for the taking the time to respond to my predicament...
[/QUOTE

I would fill it up and run it for a few moments and remove the filter over a clean pan. If the second filter is full of oil you are good to go. If it is dry then there is more to look into then a bad filter.

 

[hope to float]

Did you put oil in the filter before you fitted it?

 

[hagrid]

Wait... you pulled off a used oil filter and it was bone dry? No oil in it at all?

 

[bx tractorjoe]

I would get a manual oil pressure gauge and hook it up to the pressure sender for the dummy light.. if your not getting oil in the filter the oil pump failed, or there is a serious blockage in the pump screen or there is a pressure relief valve before the oil filter that has somehow closed.. none if which are good.. and probably not easy to fix.. not familiar with your tractor but I would definitely not run it again till you have a oil pressure gauge.

Since there is no oil in the engine remove the oil filter, and the cap right by the injection pump and oil pan drain plug and blow a little compressed air into the oil filter adapter holes and see if you can feel air coming out of the other oil filter adapter hole or the oil fill hole. Do not blow to much pressure in there.. just a little and see if it has a way out.. will tell you if your bypass has stuck closed if not something should dribble out of the oil pan drain hole

 

[BruceP]

How do you KNOW that filter did not get any oil in it?... did you cut it open?

 

[Henro]

Well he did say he has about 30 operating hours on the tractor with that filter on it.

As Flip said, likely an issue with the filter bypass function. Doubt the tractor would run 30 hours with no oil flow.

Curious though that the filter would be bone dry if it was in the bypass mode...

Also so as mentioned above, it is a good idea to pre fill the oil filter before installing it. Of course if you do this you would never know you had an issue with the filter like the OP has reported.

I always fill my filters before installing, but there was a time LONG ago when I never thought of it. (Pre computer and internet era)

 

[BruceP]

Well he did say he has about 30 operating hours on the tractor with that filter on it.

This tells me there WAS oil flowing

Curious though that the filter would be bone dry if it was in the bypass mode...

Correct.... the oil has to enter the filter to get bypassed... The filter bypass ONLY comes into play on cold-startups or totally-plugged filter material.

Also so as mentioned above, it is a good idea to pre fill the oil filter before installing it. Of course if you do this you would never know you had an issue with the filter like the OP has reported.

It would be SIMPLE to ascertain if oil is flowing thru filter.... feel the filter with your hand... if it is at engine-temparture... there is oil-flow inside it.

I always fill my filters before installing, but there was a time LONG ago when I never thought of it. (Pre computer and internet era)

Some engines WILL NOT PRIME THE OIL PUMP after an oil change. (Some new Ford engines are like this)
Kubota diesels are not this type of engine.


HOWEVER: Lets not confuse the filter-bypass with the PRESSURE bypass within the engine.
There is a pressure-bypass within the engine... but this simply bypasses back into the pan not lubricating the engine. It would not allow engine to run 30 hours.


My question remains: How does the OP KNOW the filter was bone dry without cutting open? Perhaps the filter drained into the pan when the oil was drained. My Kubota filter screws onto the SIDE of the engine.... my Subaru has oil-filter ON TOP of the engine.... either of them can drain into the pan when loosened.

 

[Tarmy]

This tells me there WAS oil flowing


Correct.... the oil has to enter the filter to get bypassed... The filter bypass ONLY comes into play on cold-startups or totally-plugged filter material.


It would be SIMPLE to ascertain if oil is flowing thru filter.... feel the filter with your hand... if it is at engine-temparture... there is oil-flow inside it.


Some engines WILL NOT PRIME THE OIL PUMP after an oil change. (Some new Ford engines are like this)
Kubota diesels are not this type of engine.


HOWEVER: Lets not confuse the filter-bypass with the PRESSURE bypass within the engine.
There is a pressure-bypass within the engine... but this simply bypasses back into the pan not lubricating the engine. It would not allow engine to run 30 hours.


My question remains: How does the OP KNOW the filter was bone dry without cutting open? Perhaps the filter drained into the pan when the oil was drained. My Kubota filter screws onto the SIDE of the engine.... my Subaru has oil-filter ON TOP of the engine.... either of them can drain into the pan when loosened.

 

[Tarmy]

This tells me there WAS oil flowing


Correct.... the oil has to enter the filter to get bypassed... The filter bypass ONLY comes into play on cold-startups or totally-plugged filter material.


It would be SIMPLE to ascertain if oil is flowing thru filter.... feel the filter with your hand... if it is at engine-temparture... there is oil-flow inside it.


Some engines WILL NOT PRIME THE OIL PUMP after an oil change. (Some new Ford engines are like this)
Kubota diesels are not this type of engine.


HOWEVER: Lets not confuse the filter-bypass with the PRESSURE bypass within the engine.
There is a pressure-bypass within the engine... but this simply bypasses back into the pan not lubricating the engine. It would not allow engine to run 30 hours.


My question remains: How does the OP KNOW the filter was bone dry without cutting open? Perhaps the filter drained into the pan when the oil was drained. My Kubota filter screws onto the SIDE of the engine.... my Subaru has oil-filter ON TOP of the engine.... either of them can drain into the pan when loosened.

when I spun the filter off...nothing was in it. Usually when I change it it is full (even after draining the oil pan first. It usually makes a big mess. This time nothing. My tractor has the horizontal mount...so only some oil usually drains out...usually there is a good amount left in it when I remove it.

so I looked with a good light...looked dry. It has been several hours since I pulled it. I left it on my bench with the hole facing up. There is now about a teaspoon of used oil, similar to what I drained out of the pan. So there was some...but not very much.

as you guys noted...I cannot believe an engine could run for the hours I put on it without some failure...someplace.

my guess is that there may be some flow...but if the bypass in the Kubota filter Was not functioning correctly it may have restricted it but not enough to fry the engine.

i have never primed the oil filter before and haven’t had any issues. If you guys think this is a good idea I can do that. As I said...I have a new filter on it...I can fill it with oil and start it...crack the filter loose and see if this one is passing or getting oil.

thanks for the comments guys...I am open to suggestions and questions

 

[SidecarFlip]

I think the filter was doing the job myself. Both mine are horizontal as well and spinning them off, I get little to nothing out of them but I cut them open and the filter material is always wet.

30 hours is NOTHING on an oil change. I'd be running at least 50 hours. In fact I change yearly only, no matter how many hours I run (which is usually quite a few as I farm with my units.

Oil analysis always comes back good.

 

[Russell King]

Read through this thread to see discussion on my L185 and NIW describes a valve that wears and allows the oil to drain from filter (post #23).

Oil change capacity

This is an excellent reminder that cheap oil filters can contribute to problems. Cheap oil filters often use stiff, ineffective back-flow designs. One more thing to keep in mind.... when this happens, it's oil from the dirty side of the element returning to the pan.

www.orangetractortalks.com

How long had it been since the engine ran until you removed the filter?

 

[BruceP]

The filter 'anti back flow valve' (if it has one) is easily seen inside the filter It is a rubber/silicone 'flap' just behind the perimeter holes.

It is intended to only allow oil INTO the perimeter holes and help prevent losing prime while engine is off.

In real life, oil can seep past VERY small openings and this 'anti back flow valve' may not hold the oil inside the filter for more than a couple days.

 

[lugbolt]

did u start the engine before changing the oil? How long was the engine sitting between it's last run and changing the filter

sometimes the oil drains back into the engine out of the filter if it sits a while, and the filter "looks" dry

if u cut it open, you'll likely see that it's had oil in it at some point, probably just drained back. It happens.

normally if you have a bypass stuck the engine won't build much oil pressure and you'd have known it by now

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The relief valve is in the engine not the oil filter.
It's under a round cover on the side of the engine.

 

[Tarmy]

Sorry for not getting back to thank you guys for your comments...I appreciate them.

our power has been out for 3 days due to the large fires and crappy power/forest management that seems to be life here in the mountains these days...

I cut open the old filter and it was wet...I am surmising that the oil did indeed drain out. I had not fired it up for over a week. Normally I run it first to get the oil warm...I didn’t do that because of the power being out And not wanting to hassle with the doors on the shop.

i filled it and started it...warmed it up. Filter got warm and all looks like it should. I may have over reacted without thinking things through...

again, thank you for taking the time to post comments...this place saved my day again.