I'm just days from pulling the trigger on a new compact tractor. There are a lot of good tractors out there but I have pretty much settled in on a new L4701HST with loader. Everyone I've ever talked to over the years has absolutely praised Kubotas, until last night. A friend of a friend has a2 yr old L60something that he uses for landscaping business. He said it is a horrible tractor, and wouldn't buy another, because it doesn't want to start in cold at all. He also had a tranny leak and experienced some bad service at the dealer. On the cold start problem, he said the factory told him "they don't like the cold". I haven't had a diesel yet but I understand that diesels are more difficult to start in the cold and require more cold start efforts than a gas motor. I know you should have a block warmer, keep it indoors, keep battery strong, activate the glow plugs, etc for cold starts. My question is simply this, for new tractors are Kubotas any harder to start in the cold than competing makes like JD, Kioti, Massey, etc? I know this guy didn't have a block heater plugged in, and stored it outdoors primarily on worksites, so I'm just wondering if he's the root cause of the poor cold starting, but if Kubotas do have a reputation as being a substandard cold starter, I don't want to purchase a warm weather princess. I think I know the answer I'm going to get here but have to ask. Thanks all for your patience with my Noobie question.
Newbie - Kubota cold start performance
- Thread starter Dave7236
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I live in Maine and my 2015 L3901 starts every time. I don't have a block heater either. I just leave the glow plugs on for around 20-30 seconds when it's really cold and it fires right up. It does take a bit to warm up without having the block heater though. I plan on having one added this coming summer.
Im willing to bet he didnt know how to use the glow plugs correctly.i have a bx 2370 i know its a smaller tractor but itll start right up in-10f with a 15 count on the glow plugs
No diesel likes to start in the cold. I hate to be the first to say it but your friend of a friend is his worst enemy when it comes to his diesel. And chances are he never even treated his fuel for the winter. Even a $150,000.00 diesel needs winter help.
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My BX25 starts up here in Northern Ontario no problems. -20C with glow plugs on around 7-10 seconds, and fires first and every time (so far). Let it idle 7-10 minutes, and it's ready to go.
Key issue is that the glow plugs have to be good, and you have to let the tractor warm up before using it. Some people who over-use the glow plugs (heat too long), burn them out sooner. One or two bad glow plugs, and the tractor will have issues starting.
Warm up is to just get the oils flowing. The HST needs a bit of "heat" to warm up before using anything. Engine does not have to be up to operating temps, just let the machine warm up 5 minutes at least.
Key issue is that the glow plugs have to be good, and you have to let the tractor warm up before using it. Some people who over-use the glow plugs (heat too long), burn them out sooner. One or two bad glow plugs, and the tractor will have issues starting.
Warm up is to just get the oils flowing. The HST needs a bit of "heat" to warm up before using anything. Engine does not have to be up to operating temps, just let the machine warm up 5 minutes at least.
Some guys with the L4701 from northern regions will probably see your post and chime in, but from my experience with my L3560 (and both it and the 4701 have high pressure common rail engines) I would say that your friend has an unusual problem with a new Kubota. I do not have a block heater on my tractor and it has started fine for 3 winters. In my recent tractor purchases the dealers have recommended against putting block heaters on them for our climate. Michigan is cold but not the Arctic. These engines seem to be easier to start than the old diesel engines, and it is preferable to turn them off rather than leave them idle due to the dpf filters.
There is some note in the Kubota literature about a new feature that says preheating is more effective than old designs, but I have not been able to find out exactly what they mean by that. Perhaps that feature is not working on your friend's tractor. I am mystified that someone in Kubota told him that they don't like the cold. Sounds more like a dealer tech that doesn't know how to fix something or doesn't want to, and I've seen that before. I wonder which tractor he has?
There is some note in the Kubota literature about a new feature that says preheating is more effective than old designs, but I have not been able to find out exactly what they mean by that. Perhaps that feature is not working on your friend's tractor. I am mystified that someone in Kubota told him that they don't like the cold. Sounds more like a dealer tech that doesn't know how to fix something or doesn't want to, and I've seen that before. I wonder which tractor he has?
Any diesel motor dislikes cold in comparison to gas (even look at the rigs where they put the jackets over the radiators in the cold winter so they can keep all the heat in). A diesel lives on being warm. Even if you have a block heater you should let it warm up and get everything to temp before you actually start working the machine. Heck even gas engines dislike when it gets very cold out.
Honestly most of the big name machines these days are all a very good product (or they wouldn't be able to stay in the business). Pay attention to what most people around you use and check with dealer support.
When I recently got my B2650 I still did some shopping around at the competition. I came back and stayed with Kubota because to me it seemed like the most capable and best built machine of them all and I have a good local dealer as well as other dealers within reasonable distance.
Good luck
Honestly most of the big name machines these days are all a very good product (or they wouldn't be able to stay in the business). Pay attention to what most people around you use and check with dealer support.
When I recently got my B2650 I still did some shopping around at the competition. I came back and stayed with Kubota because to me it seemed like the most capable and best built machine of them all and I have a good local dealer as well as other dealers within reasonable distance.
Good luck
Some thing I do for the BX in cold weather, which is something we havent had much of the last couple years.. is get a battery tender, like 25 bucks at sears. And keep it plugged in during the winter and long times not running, trust me a full battery is a God send in cold weather. Hit the glow plugs for,, I use a 15 count,, then start it, bump up the idle a bit then go back in and have another cup of coffee. When your done she will be all warmed up and ready to go,
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They other posters have been kind in their replies.
YOU "friend" either does NOT know how to start a cold engine - or has fuel problems that create a hard start problem.
AND your dealer is just full of horse shyte, period. Now, I aint no diesel expert myself - but at 22F, I can start mine, every time.......without a hickup!
Now - walking outside and turning the key on a diesel at 12F and expecting it to fire right up......naw, likely not to happen. Much like you hopping out of bed, throwing on some old sweat pants and going out a running a 4 minute mile in that 12F......
The boys(and girls) up north deal with this every year........they understand what to do and not do.....good battery, check - good fuel, check, correct oil, check, block heater, check, and glow plugs used correctly ....check ....turn key.....mmmm.....starts and runs like a swiss watch.
For all the disadvantages of a diesel (trying to think of one) cold starting aint one to steer you away from it!
But if certain things are UNDERSTOOD from the point of owning a diesel, you will not have any problems!
Dave7236. welcome aboard. You've come to a place that can give you about as much help as you can find anywhere.
You've found ONE person who dislikes his Kubota, and declares he'll never buy another one. I feel sorry for him, but my guess is there's more, much more, to the story then you heard. Whether it's a faulty product, poor customer service, incompetent operator skills, or anything else....it's a minority of Kubota's sold problem.
I'll give you my experience. I have an L305 (about a 1980 version) which I recovered from a barn fire and got it back to operation. It's set in a barn for the last two month never started in that time. I was there yesterday to take some pictures of it to send to a potential buyer. I turned the key on, rotated start switch counterclockwise for 10-12 seconds and she fires right up.
I've got similar aged B7100 that will do the same thing. A couple of TG21860 garden tractors, one gas--one diesel, both start up with a few turns of the engine.
B8200, L2050 both about 1985 version Kubotas. Both start without incident every time. L4240, newer tractor (2005 version) starts with a few revolutions of the engine.
I conclude folks who have difficulty starting their engines have an abnormal problem of some kind.
Go buy your L4701 from a dealer who has a good reputation for service, and don't look back.
You've found ONE person who dislikes his Kubota, and declares he'll never buy another one. I feel sorry for him, but my guess is there's more, much more, to the story then you heard. Whether it's a faulty product, poor customer service, incompetent operator skills, or anything else....it's a minority of Kubota's sold problem.
I'll give you my experience. I have an L305 (about a 1980 version) which I recovered from a barn fire and got it back to operation. It's set in a barn for the last two month never started in that time. I was there yesterday to take some pictures of it to send to a potential buyer. I turned the key on, rotated start switch counterclockwise for 10-12 seconds and she fires right up.
I've got similar aged B7100 that will do the same thing. A couple of TG21860 garden tractors, one gas--one diesel, both start up with a few turns of the engine.
B8200, L2050 both about 1985 version Kubotas. Both start without incident every time. L4240, newer tractor (2005 version) starts with a few revolutions of the engine.
I conclude folks who have difficulty starting their engines have an abnormal problem of some kind.
Go buy your L4701 from a dealer who has a good reputation for service, and don't look back.
I have an oil pan heater and a block heater on my M7060. The pan heater is a magnetic one the I can remove. You can get the block nice and warm which is very good, however if the oil is not warm and by warm I mean it dosent have to be a hundred degrees. 30 or 40 degrees is warm if the ambient temp is 30 or 40 below. On my vehicle I run a block, pan, transmission, and battery heater. I did see mentioned earlier in the post a battery tender, yes thoes are very helpful too!
When the oil gets real cold it looks like grease which will not circulate to the parts of the engine it needs to be. Where I work we have 10 to 15 different types of oils we use in various equipment. The temp was -55 and we put a sample of each in a dixi cup and left outside for a few hours. And yes even the synthetic brands which were rated for cold weather would not pour out of the cup.
One you are started and running in the cold it is a very good idea to slowly cycle your hydraulic functions. If you run them to fast when cold the pump will move the oil out faster than it returns causing cavation which we all know is very damaging.
Unfortunatly I have seen many of engines destroyed from improper cold weather starting. Especially with the newer engines avoid the use of starting fluid!
When the oil gets real cold it looks like grease which will not circulate to the parts of the engine it needs to be. Where I work we have 10 to 15 different types of oils we use in various equipment. The temp was -55 and we put a sample of each in a dixi cup and left outside for a few hours. And yes even the synthetic brands which were rated for cold weather would not pour out of the cup.
One you are started and running in the cold it is a very good idea to slowly cycle your hydraulic functions. If you run them to fast when cold the pump will move the oil out faster than it returns causing cavation which we all know is very damaging.
Unfortunatly I have seen many of engines destroyed from improper cold weather starting. Especially with the newer engines avoid the use of starting fluid!
As stated, your friend-of-a-friend is doing something wrong, whether it's starting procedure or lack of maintenance. I've had several diesel's that have performed well in the cold, but none of them have operated as well as my '82 B7100. Since buying my Kubota, I've had the Orange bug, and I'm happy with it for sure. If I ever get another tractor, it will, without a shadow of a doubt, be a Kubota.
I always garage my B7100, so the temps rarely get below 35F. However, I keep it on a battery maintainer just to keep it in top condition, and in the winter months the fuel gets treated with anti-gel, moisture fighter, and cetane booster. Summer is just moisture fighter and cetane booster. I don't need the cetane boost, but it's cheaper for me to get it in a combo bottle than individually. If there was ever a reason for me to leave it outside in the cold, a magnetic oil pan warmer would be going on it. I have one on hand should it ever be needed.
Please don't take one bad 'opinion' and rule out an excellent choice of tractor. Likewise, do your research and see what fits YOUR ticket.
EDIT:
I always garage my B7100, so the temps rarely get below 35F. However, I keep it on a battery maintainer just to keep it in top condition, and in the winter months the fuel gets treated with anti-gel, moisture fighter, and cetane booster. Summer is just moisture fighter and cetane booster. I don't need the cetane boost, but it's cheaper for me to get it in a combo bottle than individually. If there was ever a reason for me to leave it outside in the cold, a magnetic oil pan warmer would be going on it. I have one on hand should it ever be needed.
Please don't take one bad 'opinion' and rule out an excellent choice of tractor. Likewise, do your research and see what fits YOUR ticket.
EDIT:
I second this 100%! Don't ever use a starting fluid on a Kubota. You'll blow a hole in the block!
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Wow, thanks all. I think some of my friend of a friend's issue was probably brought on by himself and the dealership. I hope he gets it worked out. I found it pretty hard to believe Kubotas were harder starting in the cold than any other diesels. I had never heard that. I am excited to finally get a tractor that starts and runs and doesn't break three times every time I use it. I plan on keeping it in the workshop, which can be heated as needed, so I should not have any issues here in NE OH. Thanks again all.
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I use both my L tractor and my Kubota powered Bobcat all winter, and both function flawlessly, yea when it's 20 below it pays to have a block heater and a good charged battery, But I've yet to have either not start for me.
the guys here taught me how to start my old KUBO...
once i learned how? NO PROBLEM in the cold at all. & its an OLD girl.... turn the key backwards till the wire glows red & then start it .... bingo up & running let it warm up for 5 minutes & good to go.
my new one fired right up after sitting outside at 0* F here several mornings in a row... only took about 10 seconds on the glowplugs & then i give it a 5 minute warm up...
but then again im not in northern Canada either.
once i learned how? NO PROBLEM in the cold at all. & its an OLD girl.... turn the key backwards till the wire glows red & then start it .... bingo up & running let it warm up for 5 minutes & good to go.
my new one fired right up after sitting outside at 0* F here several mornings in a row... only took about 10 seconds on the glowplugs & then i give it a 5 minute warm up...
but then again im not in northern Canada either.
Well, I now bleed orange. Last week I bought a new L4701HST with the heavy duty bucket, AG tires loaded, open station, with a bale spear. They had to switch out the industrial tires so I get it sometime this week. My farmer buddy highly recommended the AG tires for what I'm mostly going to do which is handle round bales, manure, dirt and stone, plow snow, do construction projects, mow fields, brush hog trails, drill post holes and drag logs/get firewood. Oh, and my property is pretty low and generally a bit wet.... He calls it a swamp but I more lovingly call it a wetland full of flying hunks of meat waiting to be harvested with bismuth. I'm not overly worried about occasionally traversing my country lawn with the AG tires, I frequently trashed it out back, I really don't care. Fortunately my wife doesn't care either. I can't wait to get it, he11 even my friends and family are excited, especially the one I help cut firewood.... It's going to roll off the trailer and get right to work. I've got a garage project going right now. I broke my old 70something Satoh S650G lifting and dragging big chunks of concrete garage floor out (the final straw that broke the camel's back leading to the L4701). I cut the floor up and removed it because it cracked and heaved and I needed a good front edge surface for the new garage door. I've got to clear out all the crappy sandy base underneath once it thaws and replace with compacted crushed limestone. I can only imaging what abuse this tractor will take given what I did to that little Satoh. I would run across my not so smooth field with 1000lb round bales on the FEL with the back wheels off the ground at times, no wonder I broke the front end. I do have to say it was pretty good to me, it did more than it should have been able to and I won't lose a dime on it as I bought it for a song 6 years ago. None-the-less, there is a Satoh Mitsubishi S650G with a 1200lb Buehler loader FOR SALE!!!!! in NE Ohio. I'll sell it with my newly crafted 55 gal drum ballast weight so it's a little more capable. The tractor was a little light for the loader. I was going to finish my ballast weight off at about 700lbs(2/3rds full 55 gal drum) since the 3pt on the S650G is 1100lbs, just to be on the safe side. I surely don't want a ballast weight the Satoh can't lift. It would just be a paperweight then. I guess I could keep it for the Kubota if that were the case. Anyway, I'm sure what few of you read this are done with my rambling, so I'll quit. I'll round this thread out with a pic of my new giant orange Swiss army knife when I get that BMF. Thanks all for your input.