New vs used and the little guy

Beanboy

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Kubota L4600 HST w/FEL, landpride DH1572. KK 5 ft boxblade
May 11, 2014
32
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St Augustine FL
If venting is allowed please bear with me.
I purchased a "too small and light" tractor and want to trade-up to more weight and horsepower, as I have recently found an impliment I dearly want but it's too heavy for my current ride. With no one to blame but myself I am resigned to suffer a big-time hit on my investment. I have checked with both green and orange dealers to trade my tractor for one with more power and weight. I have owned my tractor 5 months and have 34 hrs on the meter.
Searching the Net for both new and used tractors capable of handling this new affliction, I am overwhelmed with the current crop of "Rental Returns" with anywhere from 100-300 hrs sold "As-New" for $2-3,000 off current list price.
I found a brand new 55 hp green for same price as an exactly same set-up "return" with 220 hrs from another dealer 100 miles away. After several visits with both trying to work a deal the prices remained the same. Some just don't seem to want to sell.
My best trade-in offer to date yields to me a $6,000 loss, but most dealers offered $9-11k less than I paid 5 months ago. Financing IS an issue for most buyers but with current interest rates, even on used equipment, comes nowhere close to explaining the difference from a buyer's payment standpoint, as all these dealers also offer financing at low rates, even for used equipment. ASSuming a $3K loss in value as a "Used" tractor with 34 hrs. isn't that a little rich? The dealers reduce the price the same or less for way more hours. I understand the time value of money and costs of doing business but those should be similar to the same costs for their own "as-new" rental returns. Anyway, thanks for talking the time to read this post and hopefully hopefully you can a avoid a similar situation. Take your time and don't rush!

The transition to TIER 4 complicates things but from what I can see has mostly increased the prices on Pre-TIER 4 tractors more than anything else. The local guy now wants $32k for the same interim-TEIR 4 he offered to sell me last Jan for $27k and offered me $5500 less than I paid for my new tractor. Do that math. Increase one $5K and reduce the other $5,500. Pretty good days work in my opinion.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Clear up my confusion, why do you want to loose a ton of $$$ for 10 more HP?
You can add more weight for far less than your going to a new tractor.
you can load tires, you can add wheel weights, and a ballast box or a heavy blade or implement.
 

Eric McCarthy

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I had talked to a salesman at my dealer back in February and he had mentioned that tractor pricing Tier 4 would go up 15-30% depending on what it was.

You can thank the asshole tree hugging enviromental Nazis for demanding diesle engines burn more cleaner.

The gooberment listened and has screwed us all over in an effort to save our planet.


I cant count the number of truck drivers I know who are having massive problems with big rigs not running properly. All inpart to this DEF/DPF GARBAGE. Biggest complaint I hear is major lack in power and torq.
 

MXBX

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B2601
Jun 20, 2014
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Maryland
Have you considered selling your tractor privately? Whether you're talking tractors or cars You're going to take a beating at the dealer. It's the just the way it's always been. BTW, i believe in supporting my local dealership....within reason.
 

Beanboy

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Kubota L4600 HST w/FEL, landpride DH1572. KK 5 ft boxblade
May 11, 2014
32
0
0
St Augustine FL
Clear up my confusion, why do you want to loose a ton of $$$ for 10 more HP?
You can add more weight for far less than your going to a new tractor.
you can load tires, you can add wheel weights, and a ballast box or a heavy blade or implement.
It was not my desire to take a huge loss but the natural consequence of rushing into something without proper preparation. It is not just the extra HP but the weight of my machine that is bothersome. The L4600 HST weighs about 3200, plus the FEL. The drill weighs right at 1900 empty. My tires are loaded, and with the FEL there is plenty of space up front to add extra weight. My fear is on the steep terrain of the hunt club (some hills I have to back up due to grade) how much can the tractor carry without breaking something? I'm told the loaded tires don't bear on the machine so much as keep you planted with traction on the ground, and that's a good thing. But if I have to put 1500 or so lbs on the front end to keep things upright on a hill how much power is left for work? Am I calculating "balance point" incorrectly? I am new to working on steep terrain so it is probably my ignorance, but my tractor does not feel stable on those roads with a 900 lb harrow, and others have posted their experience with the seed drill I want who speak about "popping wheelies" with much bigger tractors when planting on level ground. My plots are fairly level, but getting to them is another matter. I am hoping a larger tractor weighing 5000 or so, properly loaded tires and FEL would do it. I am just concerned that loading both ends to near maximum working weights before leaving the yard to get to the field means I need a bigger unit. Sure wish I had known of this seeder last spring before I traded the L3800. I'll most likely stand with what I have for a few years till things settle down on the TIER 4 front and try again. It still bothers that "their used" only depreciates 3-4K when "ours" drops double that or more.
 

AZ.

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May 4, 2014
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I had talked to a salesman at my dealer back in February and he had mentioned that tractor pricing Tier 4 would go up 15-30% depending on what it was.

You can thank the asshole tree hugging enviromental Nazis for demanding diesle engines burn more cleaner.

The gooberment listened and has screwed us all over in an effort to save our planet.


I cant count the number of truck drivers I know who are having massive problems with big rigs not running properly. All inpart to this DEF/DPF GARBAGE. Biggest complaint I hear is major lack in power and torq.
I hate to disagree....But I fish and hunt, and get all my water out of my ground!

I think your thought process is not a complete one?...If we don't watch it we will kill our own selves....Ebola, or ISIS, wont have to.....Did you see the marathon in China last weekend?????
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Sandpoint, ID
I do grades and hills all the time, my drive is 10% grade and other parts of the property are steeper!
#1: For hill and grade work, ditch the FEL, it's working against you for stability, too much top weight.
#2: Get the widest, lowest, smallest rimmed rear tires you can find and set them as wide as you can, this will increase the stance and bottom weight.
I have done both and I can take a 20% grade with no problem, yes it still makes me pucker but it's safe. ;)
 

aeblank

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Jun 19, 2013
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16
Cadillac, MI
I get my water from the ground too, and specifically bought used to avoid dpf. I don't shoot it, but i eat venison instead of beef nearly 100%...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 

Bluegill

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L3750DT Shuttle, L3800DT FEL both
Jan 11, 2012
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Success Missouri
Buying new and trading soon after is not a good idea! I bought a used L3800 a couple years ago with 14 hrs on it for 15K. The org owner took a big ding, I took advantage. Keep the L4600 and make it work, it's a very nice rig!
 

BAP

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What exactly is the implement you want to use, make, model and etc. That would make it easier to give advice.
 

Beanboy

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Kubota L4600 HST w/FEL, landpride DH1572. KK 5 ft boxblade
May 11, 2014
32
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St Augustine FL
The seeder is the Woods PSS72 unless I do get a larger tractor, then I'd go with the 84 inch drill. The 72 weighs about 1800 lbs empty. Guess I worry too much but at some point I figure if I hang 1500-2000 lbs on the front to balance 2000 lbs on the back that 3100 lb tractor just might split? I haven't found a source yet but am curious as to how much total weight it can move/carry. As far as steepness of grade, in 2 places unless I am VERY slow and careful, when you back up the hill the road scrapes the nozzles from the sprayer boom. Such spots are short, maybe 50-75 horizontal feet, but it is quite a climb. I am resigned to the fact I'll have to drive around to the other gate to access those plots, about a 16 mile roundtrip instead of chancing that hill to access the next plot 1/3 mile across the creek, but there are quite a few spots almost as bad. Would probably be cheaper just to find a new hunt lease.
Anyway, my intent here was to vent and whine about loss in value for trade-ins. I'd expect a big hit but can't stand a killing. One might think if TIER4 increased the price of new units, and logically the value of competing nonT4 units, shouldn't the trade-in also benefit? Thanks for the advice. I'll just stand pat for a couple years and try again
 

ZoomZoom71

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Oct 25, 2014
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6
Jacksonville, FL
Quick hijack. Beanboy, I see you're a little south of me. Are you shopping at Futch's? I'm hoping to get wife acceptance on a BX soon and wondering where the best local dealer is near us. Thx!
 

Eric McCarthy

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I hate to disagree....But I fish and hunt, and get all my water out of my ground!

I think your thought process is not a complete one?...If we don't watch it we will kill our own selves....Ebola, or ISIS, wont have to.....Did you see the marathon in China last weekend?????
I'm not 100% sure what YOUR though process is, but king dingaling Al Gore is full of shit and has been for quite sometime.

Not really sure how you figure "air polution" is endangering the deers you hunt or the water you drink.
 

Bluegill

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L3750DT Shuttle, L3800DT FEL both
Jan 11, 2012
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Success Missouri
I'm not 100% sure what YOUR though process is, but king dingaling Al Gore is full of shit and has been for quite sometime.

Not really sure how you figure "air polution" is endangering the deers you hunt or the water you drink.
Made me laugh there, big guy! :D
 

BAP

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To get back to Beanboy's post and not this wondering off into other subjects:
Beanboy, what exactly are you looking thttp://www.greatplainsag.com/en/products/766/606nto do with the Woods seeder? Are you no-tilling the seed in or prepping the ground first by tilling it up? If you are tilling it first, you don't need that no-till seeder. For tilled soil, something like this http://www.landpride.com/products/143/ps15-series-primary-seeders, would work and is much lighter. There is also several other Landpride models so check out there website. Woods also makes a similar until http://www.landpride.com/products/143/ps15-series-primary-seeders.
Great Plains makes several different variations of no-till drills that are good products. They make both 3-point hitch and pull type. http://www.greatplainsag.com/en/products/766/606nt
There is a lot of options out there to accomplish what you want that would work with the tractor you have without having to trade. Do some more research and you can probably come up with something that will work for you, and you can take that 4-8k loss you would get on trade and put it towards your seeder.
Another option if your are only seeding for animal food that is not going to be harvested would be to by a 3-point fertilizer/seed spreader and put the seed on and lightly disc the seed in. That would be the cheapest method.
 
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AZ.

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May 4, 2014
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Arizona
I'm not 100% sure what YOUR though process is, but king dingaling Al Gore is full of shit and has been for quite sometime.

Not really sure how you figure "air polution" is endangering the deers you hunt or the water you drink.
I am very sorry you don't understand how pollution, all kinds effects us, environment, water and animals...

Al Gore? Really?...... You must be one of the lucky ones that don't have to breath...
 

85Hokie

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I am very sorry you don't understand how pollution, all kinds effects us, environment, water and animals...

Al Gore? Really?...... You must be one of the lucky ones that don't have to breath...
Not to add insult to an already hot topic and off the thread......if man truly believes that he has had no impact on the earth and it's ecosystem in the last couple of hundred years (more like last 75) then he will go by the way of the dinosaurs - and they were here for a couple of million of them thar years.

Mother earth is a pretty incredible machine, we ought to help all we can, before the system too #%#@ed up to fix. And those who ignore the "scientific side" of it are just as naive as those religious ones that think those DINOSAURS were around 3500 years ago hanging out with us humans.....( aint knocking religion) but education is a very powerful tool - just like all the education here on the ORANGE machines, priceless! :)
 

Bluegill

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L3750DT Shuttle, L3800DT FEL both
Jan 11, 2012
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Success Missouri
Al Gore was only in the 'green thing' for the money. :cool:

And yes, the earth is much, much older than 5000 years!
 

Bluegill

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L3750DT Shuttle, L3800DT FEL both
Jan 11, 2012
1,560
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Back on topic...;) I'm have trouble following the OP's train of thought here? Is the seed drill you want too large for the tractor? Does the drill need to be lifted in the air, or can it roll on it's own wheels? (I know nothing about seed drills). Do they make drills sized for your tractor? I fail to see why a larger tractor is needed for a hunting lease?

We have 400 acres and I use the L3800 99% of the time. Sure I could use a larger tractor, but I'd have to find more and large stuff to do with it? :cool:
 

AZ.

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May 4, 2014
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Back on topic...;) I'm have trouble following the OP's train of thought here? Is the seed drill you want too large for the tractor? Does the drill need to be lifted in the air, or can it roll on it's own wheels? (I know nothing about seed drills). Do they make drills sized for your tractor? I fail to see why a larger tractor is needed for a hunting lease?

We have 400 acres and I use the L3800 99% of the time. Sure I could use a larger tractor, but I'd have to find more and large stuff to do with it? :cool:
Yes...a link to the seed drill would probably tell us the whole story as of what size is needed for the 3 point hitch.