New L4600 with metal in hydraulic fluid

[Cdog]

Hello, I bought a new l4600 stick transmission 4wd with loader this spring. I did a google search on this tractor and it seemed to be free of any real issues. I finally got to use it brush hogging and the power steering quit. There was 3.7 hours on the meter when this happened. My dealer came out and determined hydraulic filter was the problem. When the mechanic changed it there was a lot of metal on the magnet of the filter, and a lot of metal in the drain pan of the oil that came out. I didn't like what I saw and asked the mechanics about it and they thought it would be ok.

Well, then I went hogging again and the steerinig quit with exactly 7 hours on the meter . Now I'm pissed off. I bring it back to the dealer and they drained all the hydraulic fluid and pulled the filter . All of the oil had metal particles in it. A silver cloud was on top of the oil. I dipped my finger in it and looked and it resembled metallic in paint. The magnet on the filter had 1/16 to 1/8 inch build up of metal, just like the first one. Also the fluid was black instead of clear it should have been.

After talking to shop manager, he said they usually see some metal on the filter at a 50 hour service, but never that much and he has never seen a filter plug on a new machine.

Has anyone had this problem? I searched and couldn't find any complaints anywhere. I believe with the amount of debris in the oil that there will be problems down the road with bearings and seals everywhere the oil flowed. I had been a machinist mechanic in a coal fired power plant for 20 years. If we found a gearbox like this we would totally disassemble, change all bearings, steam clean box and wipe out chips over and over to get as clean as we could. I really don't want a new tractor that has been rebuilt.

I really want a different tractor. Same model as is perfect size for me. I bought kubota because everyone I know that has one loves them. We also have kubotas at work that are nearly 30 years old and get abused everyday that still run good. My dealer is excellent. I have dealt with them for years and I'm sure they will do what they can. What can I expect from kubota? Sorry for such a long post. I am worried about the outcome. Thanks.

 

[ShaunRH]

Everyone says a little metal is normal at start but if you are seeing a lot, something is wrong and I'd be asking for it to be completely torn down, or better yet, for a new machine. Let that one head back to the factory for them to find out what went wrong with it.

As the customer it should not be your job to do their QC for them. A warranty exists to provide you with peace of mind that the manufacturer stands behind their product. When something is clearly amiss like this you really should only need to take 1 of two positions:

1. Ask for a new vehicle so they can take it back and find out what went wrong.

2. Ask for a letter from the manufacturer stating that they are willing to support the hydraulics, transmission and all other parts affected by the metalized fluids for as long as YOU own the tractor, above and beyond their normal 'warranty'. Issues caused by the problem may not show up for a long, long time and the letter would support you even against future claims.

It's possible that this is a 'lemon', and they happen even to the best of mechanical manufacturers. Check the lemon laws of your state and go back to your dealership armed to the teeth and ready for a fight, but if they agree with you about the tractor, let THEM fight the manufacturer. Any half decent dealership will support your claim and get you a reliable machine.

 

[rentthis]

I have a 3 month old L4600 hst. The steering has started giving problems. I didn't know to look for what you describe. I will check the hydro filter and give you report.

 

[rentthis]

I removed the hydro filter, drained some fluid into a clean bucket, stirred the oil with a magnet and no shavings were in it. I have never had or seen this problem with Kubota but I will be the last to say that it can't happen.

 

[gpreuss]

Push for a replacement tractor. At 7 hours, THEY can clean this one up and sell it again as a "demo" for a grand or two off. Shouldn't be your problem.

At 50 hours my oil looked new with a few shavings on the magnet. At 250 hours the oil again looks like new. I just changed the filter - a few shavings consistent with grinding the gears. The tractor has about 60 hours of heavy loader work, 60 hours of heavy brush hogging, the rest putzing about, mowing pasture and clearing snow.

What you have is wrong...

 

[Bluegill]

Metal on the filter magnet at 50 hrs is normal. But your machine has a problem. I'd push for another tractor. The L4600DT is a great rig and this isn't normal!

 

[Cdog]

Thank you all for your replies.

I told the dealer yesterday that I wanted a new tractor. The salesman threw out the suggestion about an extended warranty. I told him I was not interested in that because when I need a tractor, I need a tractor. It cant be sitting in the shop like it is now, covered by warranty or not. They don't give you a loaner tractor to use like a car dealer.

Ultimately I think it is Kubota that has the last say so. I was wondering if anyone had gotten a different tractor in a similar situation.

Its good to know others share my thoughts on this, in case I am told Im being unreasonable with my request.

I take good care of my machines and figured at my age,50 ,this tractor would last me the rest of my life with few issues. I do believe I own one of the few lemons out there. Other than this tractors problems, the L4600 meets my needs perfectly. I would be happy with a different one just like it, but never the one I have, no matter what they do to it.

Thanks for you replies I will let you know what happens.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm with every one here, I would push for a replacement!
Best of luck!

 

[RobD70]

Yep, push for a new tractor. Your not paying that much money for problems. Metal filings like you described is not at all normal or good. You may also consider contacting Kubota customer service and get them in on it. Just explain everything you have gone through and are working with your dealer but wanted to make them aware of the problem. They will check into it and will be able to help and ultimately make the final decision. They might be able to put a band aid on it now, but that could mean serious issues down the road.

 

[Bluegill]

I've not heard of Kubota replacing the whole tractor under warranty, but I'm sure it has happened. I also haven't heard of a problem like this on a new rig.

If they wont replace it, I'd be OK with a good internal cleaning, after the problem is fixed, a free fluid/filter change at 100 hrs to makes sure it's OK & a long extended warranty. Might even press for a free fluid/filter change at 400 hrs.

 

[ipz2222]

I'm guessing the power steering fluid is the same for the fel and 3ph. If so, there's no way I would keep that tractor. Untill you've seen the results of metal in fluid and what it can do in the long run, you can't imagine the damage.

 

[Bluegill]

I'm guessing the power steering fluid is the same for the fel and 3ph. If so, there's no way I would keep that tractor. Untill you've seen the results of metal in fluid and what it can do in the long run, you can't imagine the damage.

The fluid has to pass through the filter before going to the hydraulic pump. From the pump it goes to the FEL, steering & 3 pt. My bet is the metal clogged the filter and caused the power steering to stop. Could be the problem is in the trans and the filter saved to rest? I'd like to know what caused this.

 

[Cdog]

My salesman called me today and said I could pick up my tractor.

He said they flushed and refilled my tractors hydraulic fluid, drove it down the road,ran the PTO for 1 1/2 hours, occasionally taking off the filter and reinstalling it and checking for metal.

They showed me the filter they used. It had very little metal on the magnet. They said it showed about the same amount you would find in a 50 hour service in the 2.5 hours total they put on the tractor trouble shooting it after the fluid change. They said the fluid was crystal clear when they removed the filter to check it for debris.

BTW, he said Kubota service rep told him that that amount of metal that plugged my 2 filters was not uncommon in a new tractor. I don't buy that, and I don't believe anyone at the dealership buys that.

Anyway I picked up the tractor. The salesman said to take it home use it, we will work something out. I told the shop foreman that the tractor is a lemon, and that serious problems would most likely show up at some point because of the contamination, and it may be years from now. He did not disagree.

Guess what, I dropped it off with 7 hours on the machine, picked it up with 9.5 hours on the machine, and it broke down with the same problem at 10.9 hours on the machine.


This sucks.

 

[Bluegill]

This is not a common problem. I sure hope you get taken care of.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Guess what, I dropped it off with 7 hours on the machine, picked it up with 9.5 hours on the machine, and it broke down with the same problem at 10.9 hours on the machine.
This sucks.

Are you saying that with another 1.4 hours it died again?

I'm sorry I love Kubotas, but that one is a:
LEMON!!!!!!
or your dealerships mechanic doesn't have clue what he's doing, both are possible at this point!
I'm thinking you are going to have to step up the game and get seriously Tee'ed off with them!

 

[turck]

My salesman called me today and said I could pick up my tractor.

He said they flushed and refilled my tractors hydraulic fluid, drove it down the road,ran the PTO for 1 1/2 hours, occasionally taking off the filter and reinstalling it and checking for metal.

They showed me the filter they used. It had very little metal on the magnet. They said it showed about the same amount you would find in a 50 hour service in the 2.5 hours total they put on the tractor trouble shooting it after the fluid change. They said the fluid was crystal clear when they removed the filter to check it for debris.

BTW, he said Kubota service rep told him that that amount of metal that plugged my 2 filters was not uncommon in a new tractor. I don't buy that, and I don't believe anyone at the dealership buys that.

Anyway I picked up the tractor. The salesman said to take it home use it, we will work something out. I told the shop foreman that the tractor is a lemon, and that serious problems would most likely show up at some point because of the contamination, and it may be years from now. He did not disagree.

Guess what, I dropped it off with 7 hours on the machine, picked it up with 9.5 hours on the machine, and it broke down with the same problem at 10.9 hours on the machine.


This sucks.

You need to make a lot more noise, if your dealer isn't helping contact the kubota rep for your region and if that doesn't work it may be time to lawyer up. kubota doesn't like to buy back their tractors.

 

[Bluegill]

Did they say what caused the fluid to be "black" & not clear the first time.

 

[Cdog]

They didnt say why it was black. I assumed heat from friction . They removed the hydraulic pump as directed by kubota,and said all was clean downstream of the pump.

I did ask if they sent the oil for analysis to find out if it is cast iron or steel. At this point they have not.

At first they thought the metal was left over from machining of the transmission case. The dealership is keeping the oil.

. The first time this happened ,I called the dealer and they said to check the fluid level on the dipstick located under the seat / top of rear end. It was so clear ,at first glance I thought it wasn't on the dipstick at all, but it was right on the full mark.

When I brought the tractor back yesterday the salesman, who also was a mechanic said that he would narrow it down to chips being produced while tractor is moving. Which in my mind be transmission or rear differential as both cases are hydraulic reservoir .

I asked the salesman yesterday , worst case scenario, what it would cost me out of pocket to trade. He said not to give up yet . Also that i might have to call and "talk " to kubota myself.

I sure hope I don't need to get a lawyer to resolve this. I have never needed one up to this point in my life.

 

[Bluegill]

Sounds like way more metal than normal manufacture residue, after plugging up several filters. Something wrong in the trans/pto. I don't think you'll need a lawyer to get this ironed out...

 

[Tooljunkie]

I cant see them replacing tractor, but every hydraulic component needs inspection and thorough cleaning. One chip in a cylinder and is toast. Of course, finding source of filings is number one.they need to find source of problem-changing oil isnt cutting it,not to mention additional damage.
Tech gets paid the same regardless, but kubota pays a reduced shop rate for warranty. It needs to go for failure analysis.
Good luck, hope dealer treats you well.