New house/driveway. Boxblade vs landplane?

[GreensvilleJay]

GREAT 1st step, YOU own the land and road !!

2nd step, spend the time and make a 'contour map', put down in writing the 'lay of the land', the 'highs and lows' BEFORE you grab a tractor and implement and make the roadway WORSE. There's a reason why pros have a LOT of 'grading stakes' on their project roads. Once you get the base right,anyone can 'top coat'.
Normally 'base' material will be larger rocks, then 'gravel', then 'fine/packing' material. Seems there's no standard for the names of the materials,which makes it 'fun' when 'talking over the wires'. I do KNOW if you can get 'slag', it'll compact EXTREMELY tight and you'll need a BIG excavator to break it up.


Your driveway IS a huge project and I assume you only want to do it ONCE, especially if this is your 'forever' home . Call around to neighbours, local biz, etc. ,see if there's any roadwork in your area(say new business going in ,subdivision,??). Maybe a 'crew' has a job down the road, next month ?? If you could get their roadgrader in for a morning to cut the base, it'd be money well spent. I understand the need to save money , you've got the tractor and it could be done using it...just takes time, fuel and good eyeballs. heck , it could also be done with a shovel and rake..just takes a LOT more time.

Options....look for options...pros and cons, write them down, wait a week THEN read it again and make a decision.

 

[fried1765]

Since you brought it up, it is kind of interesting the comparison between the selection of implements folks like us here use with farm type tractors in comparison to high dollar machines built from the ground up for a task.

There are road graders (the long wheelbase, blade in the middle things you mentioned). There are dozers with 6 way blades with open ends. There are dozers with what I’ve always heard called dozer blades that have closed ends. The road grader is by far the most versatile for grading roads, particularly final grading, a dirt/gravel road or parking lot. The bulldozers with the closed end “dozer” blades are the big boy version closest to the function of the boxblade. The 6 way blade on a dozer (usually a small one) seems to be the closest to a backblade on a tractor and works quite well for grading non-road things such building lots where the road grader is quite unwieldy.
Pretty sure any of the three can make a road and cut a ditch to drain a ponding front yard. Not quite sure what any of this has to do with the OP running something behind a MX5400.

Clearly you like your backblade. I’m happy for you. I like my backblade as well. I also like my box scrape but admittedly would like it less if I didn’t have a clue how to use it. I do not have, and have never had, a grading scraper so any comment I made on grading scrapers would have virtually no merit, thus those comments are best left to others who have that knowledge.

I do not need a lesson in earth moving equipment!

You are absolutely correct: I do like my EA 6 Way back blade.
It would be even better if it had "guide wheels".

I have a box blade that I bought new 8-9 years ago, and it has never touched dirt!
I bought the box blade to drag some material for filling low areas, but that plan changed.
There is a VERY low learning curve to using a box blade!

The ideal (relatively) small machine for driveway grading is called a Huber Maintainer.
You have likely never heard of it, but it is a long wheelbase tractor style machine with a belly blade.
The older models date back to the 50's, and if from that era, can be bought very reasonably.

All of the homeowner 3pt. tractor mounted grading attachments are low cost grading compromises at best.

 

[fried1765]

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Done…

Nothing against the back blade or grading scraper. However the idea that a box blade isn’t capable of moving material sideways, crowning, ditching, creating swales… perform actual grading; that idea is just wrong.

If you prefer a back blade, use a back blade. I really don’t care what anyone uses and I am not selling boxblades so I don’t care if anyone ever buys one again. However, the OP asked for information and in regard to what he can do with a box blade he was given incorrect information. Whether that was because the folks that posted the incorrect information don’t have experience with the implement and are parroting bad info they’ve heard or they do have experience that was disappointing because they didn’t know how to get it to do more than move material in a straight line; don’t know, doesn’t really matter.

I’m not planning on getting in some sort of internet slap fight about this, but no one anywhere, regardless of whatever “evidence” or “authority”, is ever going to convince me that the things I have already done and continue to do with an implement can’t be done with that implement. That would be entirely non-sensical on my part.

From the standpoint of those reading this, there’s a judgment of whether I’m full of crap and actually used a backblade, contractor, photos of someone else’s road. Maybe I’m an 10 year old in Vanuatu who has never seen a boxblade; I’m just bored and like stirring up old dudes with tractors. That‘s the dicey part of a forum like this. Y’all have to decide if what I post is worthwhile.

Regardless what you decide, none of you are going to convince me I can’t do stuff I’ve already done.

I absolutely agree!
But, is it the best/right tool for the job?
You can also paint an entire house with a one inch wide brush!

 

[fried1765]

Try cutting a ditch along the road with a box blade. Or reaching into the ditch to pull gravel back to the road. Light blades are worthless; they must be heavy to be useful.

You've got it right !!!!

 

[fried1765]

Looking at your road photos, I’m going to add some thoughts about fixing the initial situation. My other posts about maintenance are still what I would recommend. I had the same situation with my 1500’ of road 18 years ago when I bought the place. I initially hired a talented guy with a road grader who cut ditches and pulled the material to form an elevated crowned roadbed. An he did it without adding material. He was talented enough as an operator to get all the material needed from the ditches he built. Then I had it graveled and I worked the gravel to spread it with my tractor and blade. That 6 hours that I paid the grader operator and equipment for was the best decision I could have made. Since then I’ve maintained it myself, and once or twice had new gravel added to some spots.

You made a wise choice!

 

[fried1765]

View attachment 96152 View attachment 96153 View attachment 96154 View attachment 96155
Done…

Nothing against the back blade or grading scraper. However the idea that a box blade isn’t capable of moving material sideways, crowning, ditching, creating swales… perform actual grading; that idea is just wrong.

If you prefer a back blade, use a back blade. I really don’t care what anyone uses and I am not selling boxblades so I don’t care if anyone ever buys one again. However, the OP asked for information and in regard to what he can do with a box blade he was given incorrect information. Whether that was because the folks that posted the incorrect information don’t have experience with the implement and are parroting bad info they’ve heard or they do have experience that was disappointing because they didn’t know how to get it to do more than move material in a straight line; don’t know, doesn’t really matter.

I’m not planning on getting in some sort of internet slap fight about this, but no one anywhere, regardless of whatever “evidence” or “authority”, is ever going to convince me that the things I have already done and continue to do with an implement can’t be done with that implement. That would be entirely non-sensical on my part.

From the standpoint of those reading this, there’s a judgment of whether I’m full of crap and actually used a backblade, contractor, photos of someone else’s road. Maybe I’m an 10 year old in Vanuatu who has never seen a boxblade; I’m just bored and like stirring up old dudes with tractors. That‘s the dicey part of a forum like this. Y’all have to decide if what I post is worthwhile.

Regardless what you decide, none of you are going to convince me I can’t do stuff I’ve already done.

What 3pt hydraulic system/method are you using to tilt your box blade?

 

[jyoutz]

View attachment 96152 View attachment 96153 View attachment 96154 View attachment 96155
Done…

Nothing against the back blade or grading scraper. However the idea that a box blade isn’t capable of moving material sideways, crowning, ditching, creating swales… perform actual grading; that idea is just wrong.

If you prefer a back blade, use a back blade. I really don’t care what anyone uses and I am not selling boxblades so I don’t care if anyone ever buys one again. However, the OP asked for information and in regard to what he can do with a box blade he was given incorrect information. Whether that was because the folks that posted the incorrect information don’t have experience with the implement and are parroting bad info they’ve heard or they do have experience that was disappointing because they didn’t know how to get it to do more than move material in a straight line; don’t know, doesn’t really matter.

I’m not planning on getting in some sort of internet slap fight about this, but no one anywhere, regardless of whatever “evidence” or “authority”, is ever going to convince me that the things I have already done and continue to do with an implement can’t be done with that implement. That would be entirely non-sensical on my part.

From the standpoint of those reading this, there’s a judgment of whether I’m full of crap and actually used a backblade, contractor, photos of someone else’s road. Maybe I’m an 10 year old in Vanuatu who has never seen a boxblade; I’m just bored and like stirring up old dudes with tractors. That‘s the dicey part of a forum like this. Y’all have to decide if what I post is worthwhile.

Regardless what you decide, none of you are going to convince me I can’t do stuff I’ve already done.

For the purposes and situation you show, your box blade did the job. Add some slope and obstacles that require the ditches be cut while the tractor can’t get off the roadbed, and the situation changes, I can travel on the roadbed and tilt, offset, and angle a blade and cut ditches and pull material up to the roadbed. Flat, open country opens up opportunities to use a box blade for that task. Something I do a few times a year is pull gravel from the ditch back onto the roadbed. That’s where a blade excels over a box. I had both for over 20 years, and used both. I only used the box when needing to cut and fill deep spots. And this discussion isn’t focused on that, but an offset blade allows snow to be plowed off the road and into the ditch, while staying firmly on the road and not sliding into the ditch. A blade that doesn’t offset is just as bad at needing to work too close to the ditch.

 

[The Evil Twin]

I've used the BB extensively for grading after clearing and cutting a loop for the RV turn around. But.....it's what I was able to borrow from a friend. Lol. I also graded the gravel road that our home and a couple others live on. It pulled gravel from the edges just fine but it's relatively flat and the ditch on the sides is more like a gully. So I didn't have to reach too far out.
As you can see, lots of folks have accomplished what you are looking to do with either tool. One thing you "need" is a solid base for that lane unless you are keeping it dirt. @dirtydeed mentioned that. For a lane that long its going to be a lot of stone. Recycled concrete is an option and usually inexpensive. I just ordered 40 tons of RC-2 at $12.40/ ton delivered. I'll top it off with RC-6 crusher run or recycled asphalt later. Estimated cost for 200" is under $1800.

 

[NCL4701]

What 3pt hydraulic system/method are you using to tilt your box blade?

Started out with the standard fixed link on left side, turnbuckle adjustable on right side, turnbuckle type toplink. Currently have hydraulic sidelink on right, turnbuckle adjustable on left, hydraulic toplink.

 

[jimh406]

I have a rear blade for ditches and snow, and a Land Plane for the gravel road. I never thought about using a box blade for ditches since the blade has multiple degrees of tilt built in along with offset.

Frankly, a box blade could work for the gravel road, but it was be tedious to put a nice finish during the miles of passes I do. . It takes four passes to cover the community road. Sometimes, I have to do that 3 times. It's much easier to just drive than work the rear three point to refresh the gravel.

YMMV.

 

[Flintknapper]

For the purposes and situation you show, your box blade did the job. Add some slope and obstacles that require the ditches be cut while the tractor can’t get off the roadbed, and the situation changes, I can travel on the roadbed and tilt, offset, and angle a blade and cut ditches and pull material up to the roadbed. Flat, open country opens up opportunities to use a box blade for that task. Something I do a few times a year is pull gravel from the ditch back onto the roadbed. That’s where a blade excels over a box. I had both for over 20 years, and used both. I only used the box when needing to cut and fill deep spots. And this discussion isn’t focused on that, but an offset blade allows snow to be plowed off the road and into the ditch, while staying firmly on the road and not sliding into the ditch. A blade that doesn’t offset is just as bad at needing to work too close to the ditch.

Again....in agreement. There is a reason more than a few of us recommend a 'good' grader blade for the OP with respect to what he needs to do at present, which is cut ditches and create a crown on the road.

His soil appears to be Sandy Loam and not require rippers to loosen or manipulate. It is understood that the road WILL require some form of additional material (gravel) in the future. This will be as finances allow for the OP.

The bulk of the work for now will be reshaping the existing road. Yes, you can lift one side of a box blade to create a digging edge to form a ditch...BUT it won't cut like a grader blade. And more importantly won't 'Side Discharge' like a grader blade. The OP needs to Side Discharge more than anything else I can see....based on the pics.

You 'can' make very nice ditches with just a front loader IF you have room to come in from the side (perpendicular to the road). But it takes a lot of maneuvering and time and you have the soil in the bucket to deal with each time.

With a grader blade you are simply following the direction of the road and redistributing the soil.

You can also purchase a grader blade that 'offsets' giving you greater reach if conditions (obstacles or wet soil) don't allow for getting down into the ditch itself.

I have a Box Blade and know full well what it will and won't do (within reason). Primarily it serves well when you have compacted soil or a gravel road that needs to be ripped up. Or anytime you need to move a lot of material from one spot to another by dragging it and dropping it. It will 'level' well also.

I could build or maintain a road with either and frankly recommend having BOTH. But if I could only have one (with conditions and needs similar to the OP's) it would be the grader blade. Then add a box blade later.

Once the road is mostly established....IMO the Cat's Meow would be a well built box blade with a hydraulic top link. If buying a new tractor.... I would certainly consider Rear Hydraulics for future use.

 

[ctfjr]

Interesting thread. I used a box blade and then a back blade to redo my gravel driveway. I didn't have the luxury of flat topography though. Where there is significant elevation drop I pitched it to one side (in-slope).
That said it seems to me based on all the previous posts this is just like 'the best camera' question. Answer, the one in your hand.

 

[drumminj]

Currently have hydraulic sidelink on right, turnbuckle adjustable on left, hydraulic toplink.

Do you mind sharing what sidelink you're using?

 

[NCL4701]

Do you mind sharing what sidelink you're using?

Next time I’m with it, I’ll check. The dealer spec’d it as part of the turnkey job to add three rear remotes and the two cylinders. It’s been long enough I don’t remember off the top of my head.

Edit:
Visited the tractor this morning before work to check out the side link as my curiosity was bothering me. Also checked the paperwork from where I bought it.

The paperwork listed all the remote valves by part number but listed both cylinders as “hydraulic cylinder” so that was useless.

Couldn’t see anything other than the quality control sticker with it on the tractor so I took it off, wiped it off, and inspected it on a bench. Didn’t see any markings anywhere on it other than the (to me) useless quality control sticker. That symbol on the sticker might mean something to someone but not to me. In my experience it is sized appropriately for everything I’ve done with it and it works well. I can measure it up and send you the size and stroke specs on it if that would be helpful but unfortunately it looks like I’m pretty useless on where to source it other than I got it from Riddle Tractor in Winston-Salem, NC and I recall the salesman saying they weren’t specifying Kubota cylinders because they were stupid expensive and no better than other options (true or not, I don’t know; just what he said).

Sorry I’m not of more use here.

As an aside, the top link they specified is shorter than what I would have spec’d. It has the boxblade level at full extension and I don’t like that, but so far it has worked for everything I’ve done with it since adding rear hydraulics. In hindsight I should have been a bit more involved in verifying the specs before signing the order rather than just telling them “do it”. Only thing I insisted on was a float valve and no check valves on the cylinders so I could use the float on either the top or side. For some uses I could see check valves and no float being appropriate. For my uses, the float is a very nice option for the toplink when mowing and sometimes nice for the sidelink in some grading scenarios, so I’m glad I got float with no check valves.

 

[fried1765]

Again....in agreement. There is a reason more than a few of us recommend a 'good' grader blade for the OP with respect to what he needs to do at present, which is cut ditches and create a crown on the road.

His soil appears to be Sandy Loam and not require rippers to loosen or manipulate. It is understood that the road WILL require some form of additional material (gravel) in the future. This will be as finances allow for the OP.

The bulk of the work for now will be reshaping the existing road. Yes, you can lift one side of a box blade to create a digging edge to form a ditch...BUT it won't cut like a grader blade. And more importantly won't 'Side Discharge' like a grader blade. The OP needs to Side Discharge more than anything else I can see....based on the pics.

You 'can' make very nice ditches with just a front loader IF you have room to come in from the side (perpendicular to the road). But it takes a lot of maneuvering and time and you have the soil in the bucket to deal with each time.

With a grader blade you are simply following the direction of the road and redistributing the soil.

You can also purchase a grader blade that 'offsets' giving you greater reach if conditions (obstacles or wet soil) don't allow for getting down into the ditch itself.

I have a Box Blade and know full well what it will and won't do (within reason). Primarily it serves well when you have compacted soil or a gravel road that needs to be ripped up. Or anytime you need to move a lot of material from one spot to another by dragging it and dropping it. It will 'level' well also.

I could build or maintain a road with either and frankly recommend having BOTH. But if I could only have one (with conditions and needs similar to the OP's) it would be the grader blade. Then add a box blade later.

Once the road is mostly established....IMO the Cat's Meow would be a well built box blade with a hydraulic top link. If buying a new tractor.... I would certainly consider Rear Hydraulics for future use.

EXPERTLY STATED !!!

 

[NCL4701]

If buying a new tractor.... I would certainly consider Rear Hydraulics for future use.

Definitely agree with that regardless the implement being used if it’s being used for grading. (Maybe not for a grading scraper. Don’t know. Don’t have one.)

I added them later thinking they’d be a nice to have for a couple of early projects but not worth the money long term. At least in my case, WRONG.

They are a tremendous time saver both with my box blade and back blade even if you don’t use the added capability to adjust while still moving. They save tons of time on the maintenance type jobs like I was doing this weekend that involved filling holes, knocking down high spots, cleaning out turnouts, etc. Without rear hydraulics it would have at least doubled my time turning turnbuckles type links adjusting from one operation to another. They also open up the option of six way blades and offset blades that are highly preferable for some scenarios. Rear hydraulics aren’t cheap but they’re definitely worth the money if you do any grading unless you enjoy turning turnbuckles and manually adjusting your back blade.

 

[drumminj]

Definitely agree with that regardless the implement being used if it’s being used for grading. (Maybe not for a grading scraper. Don’t know. Don’t have one.)

Rear hydraulics are useful for a grader/scraper (land plane) as well -- changing the angle of attack to cut vs smooth/distribute

 

[NCL4701]

I absolutely agree!
But, is it the best/right tool for the job?
You can also paint an entire house with a one inch wide brush!

For the OP’s situation, a boxblade may well not be the ideal tool. If you read through my posts here, I never suggested it was. My initial post that started this back and forth was in response to your post that opined a boxblade is only useful for moving material from one place to another, which is simply inaccurate. Since you’ve had a boxblade for 8 to 9 years and it has never touched dirt, like any other implement you haven’t used, I wouldn’t expect you to have any valid opinion of its full capabilities. Same as I have no valid opinion on grading scrapers as I have never used one. And, since I have not used a grading scraper, I don’t post opinions about their use or capabilities.

The OP made it clear he has budget limitations. A high quality, heavy, six way backblade with offset which requires rear hydraulics may be ideal. As you implied in an earlier post, a road grader may be the true ideal if budget is unlimited. A lightweight manual backblade that would be cost comparable to a simple boxblade (yes, some of them can also get pricy with hydraulic controlled rippers and floating rear gates) would IMO be inadequate for the OP’s project. A backblade that is capable of handling the OP’s project may or may not fit his budget. If it does, I would agree with you and Flintknapper a quality six way backblade and rear hydraulics on the tractor are preferable. If that doesn’t fit his budget, my thought was, and is, he should be aware there are less ideal, but also less costly, alternatives.

So yes, I can paint my shed roof with a 1” brush or with my light commercial grade airless Graco sprayer. Last time I painted it, I used the Graco. I ended up with a better quality result in much less time than using a brush. But if I could only afford a brush, I would have used a brush, albeit likely at least 2” v 1” as there is little cost difference.

And I have seen a Huber at a local tractor show, but have never used one or seen one in action. It’s one of those things that I kind of wonder why it went out of production as it appears to fit a niche that would include a decent size customer base. Maybe if I saw one in action I’d see it isn’t as ideal as it appeared, don’t know. And that’s the real point here. I don’t post opinions about things I don’t know anything about and I don’t think it useful when others do either. You have made it quite clear in your posts you know quite a lot about high quality back blades and nothing about box blades.

 

[fried1765]

For the OP’s situation, a boxblade may well not be the ideal tool. If you read through my posts here, I never suggested it was. My initial post that started this back and forth was in response to your post that opined a boxblade is only useful for moving material from one place to another, which is simply inaccurate. Since you’ve had a boxblade for 8 to 9 years and it has never touched dirt, like any other implement you haven’t used, I wouldn’t expect you to have any valid opinion of its full capabilities. Same as I have no valid opinion on grading scrapers as I have never used one. And, since I have not used a grading scraper, I don’t post opinions about their use or capabilities.

The OP made it clear he has budget limitations. A high quality, heavy, six way backblade with offset which requires rear hydraulics may be ideal. As you implied in an earlier post, a road grader may be the true ideal if budget is unlimited. A lightweight manual backblade that would be cost comparable to a simple boxblade (yes, some of them can also get pricy with hydraulic controlled rippers and floating rear gates) would IMO be inadequate for the OP’s project. A backblade that is capable of handling the OP’s project may or may not fit his budget. If it does, I would agree with you and Flintknapper a quality six way backblade and rear hydraulics on the tractor are preferable. If that doesn’t fit his budget, my thought was, and is, he should be aware there are less ideal, but also less costly, alternatives.

So yes, I can paint my shed roof with a 1” brush or with my light commercial grade airless Graco sprayer. Last time I painted it, I used the Graco. I ended up with a better quality result in much less time than using a brush. But if I could only afford a brush, I would have used a brush, albeit likely at least 2” v 1” as there is little cost difference.

And I have seen a Huber at a local tractor show, but have never used one or seen one in action. It’s one of those things that I kind of wonder why it went out of production as it appears to fit a niche that would include a decent size customer base. Maybe if I saw one in action I’d see it isn’t as ideal as it appeared, don’t know. And that’s the real point here. I don’t post opinions about things I don’t know anything about and I don’t think it useful when others do either. You have made it quite clear in your posts you know quite a lot about high quality back blades and nothing about box blades.

The one thing that I do know about box blades is........that I have owned one for 8+ years.
I purchased it for it's earth moving capabilities, already knowing that by design, it lacks the grading capabilities of a 6 way scrape blade.!

 

[My Barn]

Looks like you need someone with a Bulldozer at first? As they put on some gravel to get a base down and graded.
That money better spend, good luck!