Need help with RCK60B-22BX MMM repair

[Tractor Gal]

OK, I'm beginning "to see the light." Yes, now I see 2 bearings in the diagrams.

Because this section of the mower didn't fully come apart, both bearings are currently in place. I can see the one above the deck (when the pulley was off), but the one below the deck on the spindle, I can't see. All of that section was firmly together.

So...after all this...the mower is "good to go." Since I've used it without issues...no unusual noise, no wobbling, etc., things are as they should be. The nut on the top (not speaking of myself here) came off which released the rest of the parts. Stopping quickly prevented any damage.

All of your input and explanations have helped tremendously. Going forward, when repairs are needed, I'll have a better idea of what to do...maybe. So, I won't worry about taking things apart for pictures today. And, I won't be mowing for several days...tropical storm will probably bring lots of rain making the grass grow even more. I'll be ready.

Thanks again. All of you are just great.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

They say bad pennies turn up again...so perhaps I'm a bad penny since I'm here again. I'm still contemplating my RCKB60-22BX mmm. I've watched a youtube explaining putting new seals into a kubota mower. It wasn't the same model but I would expect the process to be the same. While looking for the kind of youtube, there was one picture that looked similar to my mower. The statement said that the seal was bad.

So, I took my belt and pulley off to take a picture to get info about my mower. There is a rim of "black gunk." I don't know if that's just "stuff" from grease and mowing or if this shows that I need a new seal. The picture isn't very good but perhaps those who know can automatically know. I have no clue what this should look like.

I also took a picture down into the dust cap with the spindle so maybe there are issues there, too? I tried to take the left side pulley off to see what it looked like but the pulley kept turning so I didn't take time to try to overcome that. That pulley turns well. The right side turns without much resistance but doesn't keep turning for long.

Any help is always appreciated.

Tractor Gal

 

[Tractor Gal]

Along the way of learning, I've discovered info that I hadn't seen before. The notch in the bottom of the pulley needs to be lined up with the hole in the spindle. When grease is injected, it comes out the hole and down into the bearing. If the pulley is not put on correctly, the grease cannot get to the bearing. I feel good...I've learned something.

TG

 

[Henro]

Along the way of learning, I've discovered info that I hadn't seen before. The notch in the bottom of the pulley needs to be lined up with the hole in the spindle. When grease is injected, it comes out the hole and down into the bearing. If the pulley is not put on correctly, the grease cannot get to the bearing. I feel good...I've learned something.

TG

I’ll have to take a look at my deck to get an idea for sure of what you’re showing in your pictures. But one thing I know for sure is the top picture seems to show the body of the seal in place, but the rubber portion that contacts the spindle missing. You should not see any ball bearings looking in there. You should only see the rubber of the seal, which holds the grease inside.

On my deck, you could not put excessive grease in it, because when you did, the grease was forced past the bottom seal. I guess excessive grease when/if it expanded when heated also exited in the same fashion.

Grease from the grease nipple lubricates both bearings, the top one and the bottom one. I don’t recall alignment of the pulley being of any concern in my mind when I replaced my bearings and seals. This could be something I missed. Since the grease fitting goes in the top center of the spindle, I want to think the path for the grease is down through the spindle partway, and then it comes out through a hole in the side. I absolutely don’t remember. If you have the spindle out, could you take a look?

 

[Tractor Gal]

Henro, I already put the thing back together so I can't show the hole in the spindle. The pulley has notches...they look like they would be a keyway but there wasn't any key on the diagram so I didn't know why that was there. But, aligning with the hole in the spindle with the notch in the pulley made sense to me. Sorry I can't show a picture but
here's the diagram from Messick's that shows the hole:

Kubota #K5371-34552 Shaft w/Flange

www.messicks.com

You nailed it when you said the grease goes into the zerk on the spindle and comes out from a hole in the side. The concern is to make sure that hole is not covered up by the pulley.

In one of the youtubes, it was said that these are "open" bearings and that the bearings would be visible. In the ebay link you sent, the bearings are visible..at least that's the way I interpreted all of this. So, that's why, after the second look, I figured my bearings and seals were OK. Because the grease slides down the spindle from that hole, the grease goes into the bearings. The centrifugal force would "send it packin'" to the bearings! But, then again, I admit my lack of knowledge.

Thanks for taking time to help. I really appreciate it.

TG

 

[GreensvilleJay]

a future option, when next you service the spindles....

replace the bearings with 'double sealed ones BUT remove the 'inner' seals. That's the upper one of the lower bearing and the lower one of the upper bearing. This gives you double protection,as the grease is now trapped between the bearings seals and not relying on just the 'OEM' seal configuration.

think of it like this
normally you have
original seal
open bearing
shaft + grease
open bearing
original seal

my way
orginal seal
bearing seal
bearing
shaft + grease
bearing
bearing seal
original seal

Considering the speed (RPM) they spin at, more seal is a good thing

also remember NOT to go crazy with grease Too much and you WILL push OUT the seal,allowing grease to go out AND water/dirt to get in.

 

[Henro]

Henro, I already put the thing back together so I can't show the hole in the spindle. The pulley has notches...they look like they would be a keyway but there wasn't any key on the diagram so I didn't know why that was there. But, aligning with the hole in the spindle with the notch in the pulley made sense to me. Sorry I can't show a picture but
here's the diagram from Messick's that shows the hole:

Kubota #K5371-34552 Shaft w/Flange

www.messicks.com

You nailed it when you said the grease goes into the zerk on the spindle and comes out from a hole in the side. The concern is to make sure that hole is not covered up by the pulley.

In one of the youtubes, it was said that these are "open" bearings and that the bearings would be visible. In the ebay link you sent, the bearings are visible..at least that's the way I interpreted all of this. So, that's why, after the second look, I figured my bearings and seals were OK. Because the grease slides down the spindle from that hole, the grease goes into the bearings. The centrifugal force would "send it packin'" to the bearings! But, then again, I admit my lack of knowledge.

Thanks for taking time to help. I really appreciate it.

TG

Wow! You just gave me another job Tractor Gal!

I’m going to have to pull my pulley off and make sure I put the pulley on properly according to your description! [ I’m using too many exclamation points! ]

Probability is that I didn’t put the pully on properly!

Looks like there’s only a one-in-six chance of randomly getting the pulley on correctly from your description and what I see in the photos at Messicks…

Thanks for pointing this out. (I do still think your top seal needs replaced though.) I’ll take a picture of what mine looks like when I get the pulley off. The biggest pain I have doing this job is getting the tension spring on the idler pulley arm back in place.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

There 'should' be a square 1/2" hole in the tensioning arm. You put 1/2" ratchet in it, 'helper' pipe and easily remove/install the belt.
At least other makes have that........

 

[Henro]

Well, I got smart and pulled out my spare bearings and seals for the outside spindle and determined that there’s nothing wrong with the seal in TG’s picture. The hub the pulley is bolted to rests against the inner bearing race, and it is inside the seal. That is why the bearing looks exposed when the pulley is removed.

Sorry to mislead you Tractor Gal! Here is a picture of a new bearing with a new seal sitting on top of it.

I found a photo on Messick’s that shows the bottom of the pulley hub and the slot that must be aligned with the hole in the shaft. This should make things clearer to those interested.

 

[Henro]

There 'should' be a square 1/2" hole in the tensioning arm. You put 1/2" ratchet in it, 'helper' pipe and easily remove/install the belt.
At least other makes have that........

I’ll take a look at mine and see if I find one there as well. Probably will. As this thread illustrates, I sometimes miss the obvious! (NO LOL here, LOL)

 

[Tractor Gal]

Well, I got smart and pulled out my spare bearings and seals for the outside spindle and determined that there’s nothing wrong with the seal in TG’s picture. The hub the pulley is bolted to rests against the inner bearing race, and it is inside the seal. That is why the bearing looks exposed when the pulley is removed.

Sorry to mislead you Tractor Gal! Here is a picture of a new bearing with a new seal sitting on top of it.

View attachment 134629

I found a photo on Messick’s that shows the bottom of the pulley hub and the slot that must be aligned with the hole in the shaft. This should make things clearer to those interested.

View attachment 134630

Glad you found the picture of the pulley as that makes the alignment over the hole easy. Also, I'm glad to know that my spindle bearing seems to be OK for now!

With all the rain lately, mowing is going to be a necessity. Now if I could only do something about that heat! It's August in the South, so I need to get a grip.

Thanks again for all your help.

TG

 

[Tractor Gal]

a future option, when next you service the spindles....

replace the bearings with 'double sealed ones BUT remove the 'inner' seals. That's the upper one of the lower bearing and the lower one of the upper bearing. This gives you double protection,as the grease is now trapped between the bearings seals and not relying on just the 'OEM' seal configuration.

think of it like this
normally you have
original seal
open bearing
shaft + grease
open bearing
original seal

my way
orginal seal
bearing seal
bearing
shaft + grease
bearing
bearing seal
original seal

Considering the speed (RPM) they spin at, more seal is a good thing

also remember NOT to go crazy with grease Too much and you WILL push OUT the seal,allowing grease to go out AND water/dirt to get in.

Kinda' like Haiku, minus 1. Good to know about too much grease. Seems to magnify the thought that we need moderation in everything! Thanks, GreensvilleJay.

TG

 

[Henro]

a future option, when next you service the spindles....

replace the bearings with 'double sealed ones BUT remove the 'inner' seals. That's the upper one of the lower bearing and the lower one of the upper bearing. This gives you double protection,as the grease is now trapped between the bearings seals and not relying on just the 'OEM' seal configuration.

think of it like this
normally you have
original seal
open bearing
shaft + grease
open bearing
original seal

my way
orginal seal
bearing seal
bearing
shaft + grease
bearing
bearing seal
original seal

Considering the speed (RPM) they spin at, more seal is a good thing

also remember NOT to go crazy with grease Too much and you WILL push OUT the seal,allowing grease to go out AND water/dirt to get in.

I had some immediate thoughts when I read your suggestion Jay, with respect to these mower spindles.

The first was it looks like in order to get grease to the bottom bearing, that grease has the pass through the top bearing. The inner seal on the top bearing might inhibit the flow of grease to the bottom bearing, or maybe the hydraulic pressure of the grease would push off the inner seal of the top bearing. Not sure what might happen.

Overgreasing was claimed to be a common cause of premature bearing failure in steel mill where I worked. I was on the electrical side, so not involved with that, but I’ve often heard it said in meetings. I’m pretty sure if one follows Kubota’s greasing recommendation for the mower deck spindles, they will soon be filled with grease. Without an easy exit point grease may overheat and lose lubrication abilities, or something, and the bearings may suffer as the result.

My guess is that since the bearings are oriented vertically, that the top bearing tends to lose grease over time. That’s probably why they push the grease through the top bearing rather than have a hole in the center of the shaft, filling the cavity. In a horizontal Layout, the grease would fall to the bottom of the cavity and feed both bearings equally it would seem to me.

Just a couple thoughts

 

[Henro]

Just an update.

I ended up using a ratchet strap to release tension on the spring that holds the tension pulley against the belt. That worked really well. I tried other ways but they failed to work for me.

I actually did not have that groove aligned properly with the hole in the shaft, , but fortunately, I greased the top bearing enough that I didn’t have a problem. I aligned the top pulley properly, so the groove in the bottom of the pulley lined up with the hole in the shaft with the grease comes out.

So I’m a happy camper. Can’t believe I missed this small detail… Thanks, TactorGal for pointing this out!