Need help installing heater

[BAP]

Tractor cabs have had roof mounted heaters since Candy were first used in the 60’s. Kubota did not come up with this because it has been used by all tractor manufacturers and aftermarket cabs long before Kubota did. Because you are using the bypass line on the water pump to feed and take away the water to the heater core, you create a loop that pushes and pulls the water threw the core.

 

[fatjay]

I just installed my heater. It wasn't terrible, but wasn't a walk in the park either.

I had to remove the alternator and remove/cut that bypass hose. I bought a 25' spool of 3/8" hose from autozone that would be my supply. There is a hole in the side of one of my body panels that looks like it was designed to have heater lines run through it, so I ran that, then dipped to the bottom of the tractor by the brake pedal. Ran under the tractor to the back where the cab was, and ran the lines up the back to my top mounted heater. Used a 3/8" to 5/8" adapter I made using brass pieces from home depot, that set me back $25 alone. Then 6" of 5/8" hose to the heater and back.

My heater was from ebay, cost about the same as the one you linked. Has high and low speeds and came with a bunch of pieces to connect, none of which I used.

You can just barely see where the heater lines join up with the hydraulic lines that run to the back of the cab.

 

[Snow Dog]

Your advice to connect the heater in the small bypass is how mine is connected. No problem with water flow. It has worked wonderfully since the installation 5 years ago. The hoses I originally used, and now the copper pipes, get too hot too touch for more than a brief tap. I can be comfortable in the cab with no jacket in the coldest weather. My heater core is located with the top of it roughly at the bottom of my windshield. There's no reason to monkey around with the radiator hoses when you can do it via 5/8" lines.

Question. What fitting did you use to tap into the bypass line? I am running 5/8" to/from my core on the roof but I am not sure what to use to tap in.

 

[Snow Dog]

Do ou have a pic of your tap in site? What is the part that you used?

 

[majorwager]

Not sure why mounting height matters?, My unit is recessed in ceiling of aftermarket cab. Both my water pump and thermostat housing have adapter plugs. Remover plugs, installed threaded hose barb fittings from cab mfg. Surely kubota offers same parts.Then with supply hose connected, and return hose in a clean bucket, start engine at high idle, when water circulates, filling bucket, air has been purged from system. Turn off engine. Pinch line with clamp/vice grip Make return line connection to hose barb fitting. System operational. Pour fluid from bucket back into cooling system, using fine mesh screen. Restart engine, confirm no leaks, stay warm.

 

[keithcoady]

Got my heater installed and finally had a chance to post a few pictures.

Install went quite well and lots of heat in my homemade cab and most importantly it helps to keep my windows clear

I can have my jacket open and no gloves on in -14 Celsius and quite comfortable so I'm happy.

Here's a few pics in hopes that it may help someone else doing this project. It's nothing fancy and lots of tidying up to do in the spring when it's warmer but hey, it's functional and that's what matters most.

I tapped into the bypass at the thermostat and water pump which is a 3/8" hose. The fittings on the heater are 5/8" so I got some adapters from home depot.

I used 3/8" hose from each of the bypass fittings and then adapted both hoses to 5/8" to run to the heater. Going to get something to cover the hoses as Dave_eng suggested and may even put some kind of a shield to cover the hoses in case of a rupture.

I installed a toggle switch to 12 volt and an inline fuse.

 

[keithcoady]

 

[coachgeo]

height of heater (or how high to NOT put heater) matters the tractor. If it does NOT have a water pump but instead uses thermosyphon (many older tractors) then you should search out details on how to add a heater in that situation. It may require a 12v pump.

 

[Dave_eng]

This is the principle of hydronic system fill pressure I was unsuccessful in explaining earlier when the discussion centered on the use of elevated heaters on some tractors. The key to understanding the concept, if it interests you at all, is to realize the pump's job is not to lift the water to the top of the building but rather to just circulate it. In reality, this may be of more relevance to those forum members who have hot water heating systems.

Dave
From the web site http://jmpcoblog.com/

Want to do a building. owner or facility manager of a new building a BIG favor?

If you’re a mechanical engineer responsible for designing the hydronic system for a new building, one of the kindest things you can do for your client is include the initial system fill pressure on your drawings. This one accurately calculated value could help your client avoid a lot of operational problems in the future.

What is system fill pressure?

Frequently referred to as the “cold fill pressure” the system fill pressure is the pressure required to fill a hydronic system with water and still leave enough pressure at the top of the system to vent air off.

System fill pressure will take into account the:

(1) System height, which is the vertical distance from the bottom of the piping system to the highest piece of piping in the system, and

(2) Any additional pressure in a heating system that may, in rare cases, be required to prevent water from flashing to steam.

The fill pressure must be high enough to fill the system with water and still have enough pressure to vent off air. In some cases it must also be high enough at all points in the system to prevent flashing in the piping or pump cavitation.

How To Calculate System Fill Pressure

Calculating the system fill pressure is pretty simple. Let’s say you have a system that is 30 feet in height. (Remember, this is the system height, not the building height!) Since we know that 2.31 feet of elevation equals 1 psi we simply divide 30 feet by 2.31 to determine the static head pressure:

Thus, our static pressure is 13 psi. This will get our system filled, but it will not be sufficient to meet the operational demands of the system once it starts operating. We must add some additional pressure (typically 4 psi is enough) to make sure there is enough pressure at the top of the system to make an air vent open. Since 13 psi + 4psi equals 17 psi, this is the pressure that the pressure reducing valve shall be sat at upon system fill. This is the value that should be included on the plans.

Sometimes you need a little more

4 psi at the top of the system is generally enough surplus pressure for most hydronic systems to operate. However, systems that are designed to operate above 220°F may require more. This is because water boils at a lower temperature when it is under low pressure. Thus, in order to keep water from flashing to steam in a higher temperature closed system, it is necessary to increase the system pressure. TABLE 1 provides a reference for what the minimum cold fill pressures at the top a system should be based on system height and maximum operating design temperature.

 

[chim]

.................I tapped into the bypass at the thermostat and water pump which is a 3/8" hose. The fittings on the heater are 5/8" so I got some adapters from home depot.

I used 3/8" hose from each of the bypass fittings and then adapted both hoses to 5/8" to run to the heater................................



View attachment 34163

The configuration of the bypass on your tractor looks a little different from mine, but it does appear the short factory bypass hose is larger on the end you left connected to the engine. Couldn't you leave the small end connected and used your 5/8" hose and one 5/8" barbed coupling instead of all the fittings?

 

[keithcoady]

Chim, no the hose that's shown in the picture with one end disconnected is the same size 3/8" on both ends so I had to change both to get to the heater.

Because I had very little room to work near the engine I installed two 3/8" hoses from the bypass fittings, one on the thermostat housing and one on the water pump and ran them to below the side panel. Much easier to connect everything there.

I had to use the fittings I used as they were the only thing available at the hardware store that would allow me to get from 3/8" to 5/8"

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Cross-posting from my post here:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305176&postcount=17

Am hoping some of the wise folks who have commented on this thread can confirm the short hose from the thermostat housing to the water pump is the thermostat bypass, and can confirm which of the connections is the "pressure" side and which is the "return".

In our case the cab heater in question has its own coolant flow control valve. Do I need to add a cross-connect between heater inlet and outlet ports, with a valve, so as to ensure there is a thermostat bypass path in the event the cab heater coolant flow is shut off?

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Answering my own question...
The heater in the aftermarket cab has an on/off flow control valve. After speaking with a couple of owners with similar cabs/heaters they advised that shutting that flow control valve off during the summer is pretty much a necessity in order to keep cab temperature somewhat bearable.

Based on their recommendation I've installed what looks like a capital H in the lines going to/from the heater. If one of the vertical bars in the H is the supply line and the other is the return line, in the horizontal bar between them I've installed a simple quarter turn ball valve. In the summer months the valve at the heater will be closed, thus inserting a blockage in the flow path from water pump to thermostat housing. By opening up the valve in the H I am now cross-connecting between supply and return, thus re-establishing a flow loop from water pump to thermostat housing.

Since I'm building the tractor for my 84 year old father the biggest factor in the success of this solution is going to be operator training. I'm printing up a placard that will be affixed beside the cab heater control. "If this valve is closed, the bypass valve (under the brake pedals) MUST be opened."

 

[chim]

Why not use a 3-way valve on one side of the heater and disable the valve in the heater? It would be positioned where the horizontal bar meets the vertical in your capital H of yours. Flow would either be through the heater or bypass it. One valve would do it. In bypass position the heater would simply be in a dead leg.

 

[mikester]

Cross-posting from my post here:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=305176&postcount=17

Am hoping some of the wise folks who have commented on this thread can confirm the short hose from the thermostat housing to the water pump is the thermostat bypass, and can confirm which of the connections is the "pressure" side and which is the "return".

In our case the cab heater in question has its own coolant flow control valve. Do I need to add a cross-connect between heater inlet and outlet ports, with a valve, so as to ensure there is a thermostat bypass path in the event the cab heater coolant flow is shut off?

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom.

I have some photos for the heater install on my M59 which has some closeup photos of the ports I used. I didn't need to Tee or splice any lines as I had outlet and inlet NPT ports available - might be worth checking if you have something similar on your machine. If your cab heater has a control valve you won't need any kind of cross-connect. I was originally planning to put in a ball valve right at the inlet and outlet but there wasn't enough space to fit them. Splicing the lines to insert a valve would have been another place to spring leak.

http://divergentstuff.ca/index.php/2017/10/19/laurin-eclipse-cab-install-for-my-kubota-m59/

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Why not use a 3-way valve on one side of the heater and disable the valve in the heater? It would be positioned where the horizontal bar meets the vertical in your capital H of yours. Flow would either be through the heater or bypass it. One valve would do it. In bypass position the heater would simply be in a dead leg.

Thanks for the suggestion, chim. One would have to be able to find a decent 3-way valve at a reasonable price and delivery. I wasn't able to do that so I just kept the pre-existing shutoff valve at the heater and added the bypass valve down below the floorboards of the cab.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

I have some photos for the heater install on my M59 which has some closeup photos of the ports I used. I didn't need to Tee or splice any lines as I had outlet and inlet NPT ports available - might be worth checking if you have something similar on your machine. If your cab heater has a control valve you won't need any kind of cross-connect. I was originally planning to put in a ball valve right at the inlet and outlet but there wasn't enough space to fit them. Splicing the lines to insert a valve would have been another place to spring leak.

http://divergentstuff.ca/index.php/2017/10/19/laurin-eclipse-cab-install-for-my-kubota-m59/

mikester - yours was actually one of the sites I consulted in educating myself... Thanks for keeping those pics up on your site. The M-series engines are totally different from the B-series engines. No NPT fittings are available - I SO wanted to find an NPT plug ready to be replaced by a hose barb fitting, but no dice. There's a spot on the casting of the thermostat housing where an NPT fitting could go, IF it were actually drilled through to the water channel and IF it were threaded. In fact on my other B7510 this is exactly where an NPT fitting is installed. I have to think Curtis as the cab manufacturer for that other tractor likely supplied a modified thermostat housing, or that such a housing is perhaps available from Kubota. Hooking into the pre-existing 3/8" thermostat bypass fittings has proven to be easy. Other posters here have confirmed their cabs heat well using this as the source of coolant. My tests last night seem to confirm, so far. Just want to be very certain I'm getting coolant flow through the engine block and that I won't be risking damage to the engine.

 

[chim]

Thanks for the suggestion, chim. One would have to be able to find a decent 3-way valve at a reasonable price and delivery. I wasn't able to do that so I just kept the pre-existing shutoff valve at the heater and added the bypass valve down below the floorboards of the cab.

At under $10 plus a few more for barbed adapters, you could skip Outback and do Chinese for supper tonite

http://www.mrsupply.com/approved-ve...T9_f41eUsyCi9KBW44Mf2_XYb2PBULOBoCmE8QAvD_BwE

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Ah, yeah, THAT would have been handy! Finding one on this side of the border, locally, was a bit more of a challenge. With our idiot postal union going on strike I wasn't in a position to have anything shipped so had to rely on local supply. I searched all the usual culprits around here without success. That valve you found would have been ideal!

 

[NoJacketRequired]

A quick bit of feedback... I plumbed 3/8" lines from the thermostat bypass to the heater mounted in the overhead console in the cab. This works like a charm. Lots of heat, quickly, too!