My new L2250Dt smoking from engine oil filler & overflow

[jhende43]

Ugh indeed. My heart and gut said exactly that thanks as always wolfman and flintknapper thanks also .

ok so I’ve pulled a Jeep 5 speed transmission and replaced it’s clutch and bearings etc

is this a doable project for me getting it rebuilt accept for the machine shop of course?

can anyone point me to a YouTube video so I can wrap my head around what needs doing??Pulling engine tear down rebuild etc

I will start reading for myself tonight
Crap crap crap

anyone got a good joke or funny story to cheer me up I’m super bumbed

my family saved for 3 years for this tractor..

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

3 guys walk into a bar...
They got drunk!

 

[007kubotaguy]

Wolfman is correct. You have a tired engine. Depending on the condition of the sleeves you can generally bore these out to the next oversize. Then install oversized pistons. Save the cost of the sleeve replacement. Then the only major thing you would have to have done by a machine shop is the cylinder head. I see you are in the warm part of california. I spent a year at Tehachapi State prison in 1983 I was on the outside of the fence though working. Lived in Mojave. I'm pretty sure I know where hell is now.

 

[D2Cat]

I'd suggest double checking your compression test. A very small variation in procedure makes a difference in the readings.

You said, " Started nicely and ran good on two separate inspections and negotiations but ran for short periods of time...." Usually an engine with two cylinders being dragged by one does not start easily!!!

 

[Flintknapper]

I'd suggest double checking your compression test. A very small variation in procedure makes a difference in the readings.

You said, " Started nicely and ran good on two separate inspections and negotiations but ran for short periods of time...." Usually an engine with two cylinders being dragged by one does not start easily!!!

It wouldn't hurt to check it again, though all indications are that the engine needs to be rebuilt/overhauled.

Be sure all glow plugs are removed (if testing that way) so the engine can turn over freely.

Having a fully charged battery is a must and I like to hook up my battery charger to the battery at the same time.... to insure I've got the same cranking amperage (or nearly so) on the last cylinder tested...as the first. Might as well do a 'wet' test too....while he is at it.

But the engine seems to be exhibiting 'blow by' and the initial compression test results are not encouraging.

I'm a bit surprised it starts reasonably well with those numbers.

 

[jhende43]

THANK YOU TO EVERYONE!!!

d2cat
“I'd suggest double checking A very small variation in procedure makes a difference in the readings.”

What variation would you recommend and I’ll do them?
I performed test from glow plug holes with all plugs removed.

I performed the test twice front to back with very similar numbers both times (5psi ish off on front cylinder between tests) and middle cylinder is the 350 psi.

I did read in the FSM last night that engine should be at op temp, I did test with a very COLD engine. Any real difference? Also the tester glow plug adapters were not of proper length I posted a pic above of plug and tester adapters. Would That make a difference?

" Started nicely and ran good on two separate inspections and negotiations.."

Still starts reasonably crank time is a little long but no stumbling bogging or weird noise just crank 5 or so + seconds and starts (glow plugs 15-20 seconds before cranking)

Ran for Short time due to FEL rams profusely leaking from both tilt cylinders on PO driveway. In hind sight should have grabbed two buckets and let it run longer just idle and test drives…

 

[jhende43]

Flintknapper “It wouldn't hurt to check it again, Be sure all glow plugs are removed Having a fully charged battery hook up my battery charger to the battery at the same time.... Might as well do a 'wet' test too....while he is at it.”

I will wait to see if any other recommendations come in and re test tomorrow.

Glow plugs removed check bat. Charge check but NO on the charger while testing. Will do next time. I saw wet test mentioned in the FSM will find it again and do after repeating test dry correct?

007guy yes warm California but high mountain and thanks for the recommendation should I take the head off and in FIRST or just take head and block in together to machine shop? I have no experience with this, so, with everyone’s help here we go

 

[lynnmor]

Flintknapper “It wouldn't hurt to check it again, Be sure all glow plugs are removed Having a fully charged battery hook up my battery charger to the battery at the same time.... Might as well do a 'wet' test too....while he is at it.”

I will wait to see if any other recommendations come in and re test tomorrow.

Glow plugs removed check bat. Charge check but NO on the charger while testing. Will do next time. I saw wet test mentioned in the FSM will find it again and do after repeating test dry correct?

007guy yes warm California but high mountain and thanks for the recommendation should I take the head off and in FIRST or just take head and block in together to machine shop? I have no experience with this, so, with everyone’s help here we go

Be sure that your adapter isn't leaking in each cylinder. As long as the battery is fully charged, the few amps that your battery charger supplies will make little difference.

If you are tearing down the engine, pull the head first and evaluate it to determine what expense that will be. Then pull the block and do the same. What I am getting at is, you need to determine if the engine is rebuild-able for less cost than another engine.

 

[jhende43]

Be sure that your adapter isn't leaking in each cylinder. As long as the battery is fully charged, the few amps that your battery charger supplies will make little difference.

If you are tearing down the engine, pull the head first and evaluate it to determine what expense that will be. Then pull the block and do the same. What I am getting at is, you need to determine if the engine is rebuild-able for less cost than another engine.

How do I ensure adapter isn’t leaking
I did pause for several seconds after each test to see if pressure bled off afterwards just trying to be sure.

I will follow your advice with the head first then block. Is a “replacement motor” an option? Direct fit bolt in?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

How do I ensure adapter isn’t leaking
I did pause for several seconds after each test to see if pressure bled off afterwards just trying to be sure.

A mix of small amount of dish soap and water in a sprayer and spray around the glow plug fitting no bubbles no leak.

Given your amount of smoke and your numbers it's not much of a choice in my mind.

Just to be safe, pull the valve cover and check that the rockers are not too tight, there should be a little movement when they are not pressed down, no need to get into setting gap unless they are too tight.

 

[Pau7220]

A mix of small amount of dish soap and water in a sprayer and spray around the glow plug fitting no bubbles no leak.

Given your amount of smoke and your numbers it's not much of a choice in my mind.

Just to be safe, pull the valve cover and check that the rockers are not too tight, there should be a little movement when they are not pressed down, no need to get into setting gap unless they are too tight.

X2
Everything mentioned above were my first thoughts.

Might as well do a 'wet' test too....while he is at it.

Do not do a wet test. There’s no need for it on a diesel, and there’s the risk of bending a rod, or the possibility of the cylinder firing on the oil (fuel) you put in the cylinder. On a gas engine, the ignition source is removed when testing. On a diesel, heat caused by pressure is the ignition source.

 

[Flintknapper]

As long as the battery is fully charged, the few amps that your battery charger supplies will make little difference.

My charger has a 200 amp 'start mode' and a 40 amp setting (as well as others). 200 or even 40 amps between cylinder changes (several minutes) definitely makes a difference.

Charger on a low setting (10 or 20 amps) I agree....will not make an appreciable difference to a fully charged battery and the test done quickly.

 

[Flintknapper]

X2
Everything mentioned above were my first thoughts.

Do not do a wet test. There’s no need for it on a diesel, and there’s the risk of bending a rod, or the possibility of the cylinder firing on the oil (fuel) put in the cylinder. On a gas engine, the ignition source is removed when testing. On a diesel, heat caused by pressure is the ignition source.

^^^^^

We are talking a minute amount of oil (just enough to provide a seal for worn rings), you aren't going to hydraulic a cylinder that way and certainly not going to fire off the engine with all the glow plugs/injectors removed. Compression testing a diesel engine (just like a gas engine) involves disabling the fuel system. The procedure is in any FSM.

In the OP's case....if a careful retest yields the same results as the first, I'd quit right there and start planning on a rebuild/overhaul. But there are good reasons for wet tests and leak down tests of cylinders.

 

[Flintknapper]

I did read in the FSM last night that engine should be at op temp, I did test with a very COLD engine. Any real difference?

Testing warm (operating temp) will show the maximum compression the cylinder is capable of....since the cylinder/sleeve, piston and rings have all expanded and some amount of oil splash has coated the parts.

So that's your 'best case' data. BUT....I don't bother with that normally.

What I am more interested in...is the cold compression numbers. If they are low (or too low) to allow the engine to start (or it starts slowly) I really don't need to know anything else (if not related to the valves).

Each time you start your tractor (after it has sat and reached ambient temps) it is a 'cold' start. So cold compression numbers are what matter IMO. Of course 'glow plugs' come into play with respect to starting.

 

[jhende43]

A mix of small amount of dish soap and water in a sprayer and spray around the glow plug fitting no bubbles no leak.

Given your amount of smoke and your numbers it's not much of a choice in my mind.

Just to be safe, pull the valve cover and check that the rockers are not too tight, there should be a little movement when they are not pressed down, no need to get into setting gap unless they are too tight.

Will do wolfman will re test pressure first or take off valve cover and check rockers for a little movement FIRST?

 

[jhende43]

^^^^^

We are talking a minute amount of oil (just enough to provide a seal for worn rings), you aren't going to hydraulic a cylinder that way and certainly not going to fire off the engine with all the glow plugs/injectors removed. Compression testing a diesel engine (just like a gas engine) involves disabling the fuel system. The procedure is in any FSM.

In the OP's case....if a careful retest yields the same results as the first, I'd quit right there and start planning on a rebuild/overhaul. But there are good reasons for wet tests and leak down tests of cylinders.

I will look into a wet test soon and report back after other things discussed.
I’ve got a FSM so will read up on wet test procedure

is there any chance I can get away with a top end rebuild or am I looking at a full rebuild

also does rebuild involve removing the FEL??
Fun stuff
Flintknapper thanks for your other messages and pau7220 thank you also

I will start a rebuild thread once I re test and make sure it’s necessary

Wolfman I will skip the wet test then if multiple people think it’s not necessary will report back after re testing tomorrow

will put bat charger on and ensure no leaks with a soap spray bottle on each cylinder

any other steps before re testing that I missed

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I will look into a wet test soon and report back after other things discussed.
I’ve got a FSM so will read up on wet test procedure

is there any chance I can get away with a top end rebuild or am I looking at a full rebuild

also does rebuild involve removing the FEL??
Fun stuff

Very unlikely that the smoke and compression are an upper end issue.
You're almost guaranteed you'll need to at the very least have the cylinders bored .05 over and install new pistons and rings.
I haven't run into one that is as simple as a hone and re-ring, but it does happen.
And yes pulling the FEL is advisable for a split, way to hard to work around that!
A wet test is a good way of determining that it is the rings causing the compression issue, but you don't really have a lot of other options for the low compression besides valves that are too tight or bad valves, both are highly unlikely.

 

[Russell King]

One other thing to consider when you get the head off is to do a couple of simple inspections of the block.

1) put piston to bottom of the cylinder and look at the cylinder wall and see if there’s anything of note like scratches or gouges.

2) when a piston is at the top of the cylinder measure how far down it is from the top of the bloc.k. Is the middle piston closer to the top than the other two or are they all around the same?

 

[jhende43]

One other thing to consider when you get the head off is to do a couple of simple inspections of the block.

1) put piston to bottom of the cylinder and look at the cylinder wall and see if there’s anything of note like scratches or gouges.

2) when a piston is at the top of the cylinder measure how far down it is from the top of the bloc.k. Is the middle piston closer to the top than the other two or are they all around the same?

solid advice thank you
Do I tap starter to cycle pistons up and down to inspect or can I turn with breaker bar somehow like gas engine?

 

[Russell King]

solid advice thank you
Do I tap starter to cycle pistons up and down to inspect or can I turn with breaker bar somehow?

With the head off you can turn the front crankshaft pulley by hand. You may need to use the fan belt to pull on if there is obstructions in the way at front of engine.