MX5100DT won't drive well in high range

[Choclero]

Hello. I recently bought an MX5100DT 4WD w/LA844 FEL. Only 330 hrs on the meter. It does fine in low range, but in high range (HR) it stops moving when presented with any challenge (mud, slope, etc.). The engine does NOT bog down or stall -- the tractor just slows down or stops, even in HR1 or HR2.

I checked the clutch pedal travel and found that it was too little (0.5") and adjusted first to 1" (not much help), then 1-3/4" (which allowed me to start moving in HR2 on level pasture. No evident oil/moisture under the bell housing nipple, and no burned clutch stench.

This is my first Kubota and first diesel. My prior geared gas tractors (Ford 8N, and AC WD45) would carry a brush hog up the bluff in second gear, and this MX5100DT stops moving (not much loss of engine rpm) up the bluff in HR2 just carrying the FEL! I can't/won't brushhog in low range.

What is wrong? Is this a pressure plate issue? Every other geared tractor I've ever run would bog down or stall before it stopped moving.
Thanks for any advice!

 

[freewheel3]

Check your transmission fluid level and note the condition / smell of the fluid. Has the transmission ever been serviced and filter changed?

 

[Choclero]

Check your transmission fluid level and note the condition / smell of the fluid. Has the transmission ever been serviced and filter changed?

I haven't changed trans. oil/filter yet (400 hrs?). Smells like gear oil, but looks clear in site glass with oil le

vel slightly above normal.

 

[Choclero]

I haven't changed trans. oil/filter yet (400 hrs?). Smells like gear oil, but looks clear in site glass with oil le View attachment 56620 vel slightly above normal.

I removed the drain bolt from the bell housing and found a small amount of carbon on top. No oil.

 

[freewheel3]

I removed the drain bolt from the bell housing and found a small amount of carbon on top. No oil.

My bad.. I was distracted and jumped to the conclusion it was an HST unit, please disregard what I asked.
It sounds to me that your clutch is slipping. My geared MX5000 will spin all 4 wheels in high range in mud or loose dirt no problem.

 

[Choclero]

Thanks, Freewheel3. Glad to know it should be able to turn all 4 in mud with a good clutch in HR -- sounds like a $6-700 parts list to replace clutch, p-plate and bearings.

Am I right in thinking I DO NOT have to drain engine oil and tranny to split the tractor? Any warnings or advice on splitting the 4WD DT?

 

[Orange Man Good]

Here's my two cents: That tractor should not have a clutch slipping at 300 hours. There's either a defect or the person you purchased it from misused it. How old is this tractor?

 

[Choclero]

Thanks, OrangeMan. I believe it is a 2010. I bought it from a JD dealer, so I don't know the original owner or how he used it (but there are a lot of people who misuse a clutch and swear they don't).

 

[freewheel3]

Thanks, Freewheel3. Glad to know it should be able to turn all 4 in mud with a good clutch in HR -- sounds like a $6-700 parts list to replace clutch, p-plate and bearings.

Am I right in thinking I DO NOT have to drain engine oil and tranny to split the tractor? Any warnings or advice on splitting the 4WD DT?

No, you do not need to drain the engine or transmission oils unless you are going to replace an seals while you are in there, but you might lose some oil from the hydraulic lines.
You will need some blocking and either a couple floor jacks or one jack and a hoist of some sort. Be prepared for the front end to flop to one side or the other when you split it due to fact it can pivot on the front axle. I usually try to wedge some blocking in there somewhere to prevent this.

 

[lugbolt]

Does it have a loader on it?

EDIT: re-read. yes you have the LA844. Good. PO most likely used the clutch to slip the loader bucket into piles, or pushing trees, or whatever. I have never ever seen a worn clutch on an HST transmission tractor. I have seen the splines wear off but never seen one wear. 100% of the worn clutches I replaced were DT's with a loader. Likely the reason they traded it in.

You "might" be able to adjust the pedal freeplay and get by with it for a while. Plan on putting a clutch in at some point.

When you split it, leave the loader on. Makes it easier, IMO. Jack stands or jacks under each of the side frames, keeps the front end from flopping over. Then just roll the back half away. Easy. MX5100 was one of the easier ones to put a clutch in when I worked at the dealer. Peel the rear harness away from the rear and just drape it over the front of the tractor when splitting. Remove the drive shaft before splitting, 2 roll pins and slide the collars toward each other. Shaft falls out. I can't remember if they hyd pipes on the RH side, behind the loader frame, need to come off. If they do take them off and then put the loader frame back on to hold the front half up. I think it was just the HST's that had to take the lines off, but I don't fully remember.

 

[Choclero]

Does it have a loader on it?

EDIT: re-read. yes you have the LA844. Good. PO most likely used the clutch to slip the loader bucket into piles, or pushing trees, or whatever. I have never ever seen a worn clutch on an HST transmission tractor. I have seen the splines wear off but never seen one wear. 100% of the worn clutches I replaced were DT's with a loader. Likely the reason they traded it in.

You "might" be able to adjust the pedal freeplay and get by with it for a while. Plan on putting a clutch in at some point.

When you split it, leave the loader on. Makes it easier, IMO. Jack stands or jacks under each of the side frames, keeps the front end from flopping over. Then just roll the back half away. Easy. MX5100 was one of the easier ones to put a clutch in when I worked at the dealer. Peel the rear harness away from the rear and just drape it over the front of the tractor when splitting. Remove the drive shaft before splitting, 2 roll pins and slide the collars toward each other. Shaft falls out. I can't remember if they hyd pipes on the RH side, behind the loader frame, need to come off. If they do take them off and then put the loader frame back on to hold the front half up. I think it was just the HST's that had to take the lines off, but I don't fully remember.

Thanks Freewheel3 and Lugbolt. Much obliged. What is the "rear harness" Lugbolt mentioned?

Wooden wedges are a good suggestion if I pull the FEL; may be a good, cheap safety precaution during the split even w FEL in place.

The previous owner added an aftermarket (I assume "LP" is Land Pride) third function to the FEL, so I can see how running a grapple and or scoop could wear out a clutch in 10 yrs even if only averaged 30 hrs/yr.

I saw a photo of a pair of Harbor Freight trailer jacks with homemade brackets bolted to the FEL support or mid-case to provide support during split for one (or both) halves. But if I can roll the rear away on my floor jack it will save me >$50 for a single-use (hopefully) pair of modified trailer jacks.

Should I also order a flywheel? What is the likelihood of resurface vs replacement in a clutch burnt-out situation like this? What about seals for hydraulic lines?

Thanks, again!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I've never seen your # tractor but I assume '50' HP, so kinda big......
but I have split my A-C D-14 3x in 30 years. 1st time used a homemade gantry crane an floor jack, then twice in one day using an overhead I-beam, 2 trolleys and 2 chain hoists.
It went a LOT faster and SAFER using the Ibeam.
point to consider
obvious thing like disconnect battery, remove wiring,anything 'spanning' the two sections,etc
SAFETY !
first.. sweep clean the ENTIRE garage
2nd, get a LOT of light
3rd , pickup every nut.bolt that falls ! It ain't funny to see a floorjack being STOPPED by a 1/4-20 nut.
only USE SOLID WOODEN BLOCKS for
support do NOT use cinder blocks or concrete blocks. Those WILL send yo to hospital or morgue.
put wooden wedges in the steering tierod end area to keep wheels fron turning. if you don't, they'll magically turn and front 1/2 of tractor, well let's just say it'll be a MESS to deal with.
make 2 'installation alignment pins'. Take 3-4" long bolts same thread as the bellhousing to block bolts at 9 and 3 oclock, cut off heads, grind a little 'taper' to them. These will guide the back 1/2 onto the front 1/2. When reasonably close, install the real bolts and EVENLY tighten
The BIG thing about rejoing the sections is ALIGHMENT, up/down,left,right, square, plumb ,true AND be sure input shaft slides into clutch pack splines...(tranny in neutral..)
If using a floor jack for the back 1/2 move, spend time to make a custom bracket to enuse jack and back 1/2 are ONE piece. You don't want the jack to 'oopsy' away from the back half ! I turned the rear wheels to split the tractor, floor jack behaved
TAKE PICTURES, OFTEN... especially when taking 'things' off !!! That way you won't spend hours trying to figure out WHERE this 'gizmo' goes or what way a spring was connected.....

No need for a new flywheel BUT check the condition of the teeth on the ringgear. 4 stroke engines always stop at 1 of 2 locations, those teeth are the ones that get 'chewed'. If chewed,2 options, a new ringgear or remove,rotate,reinstall the old one.

The big thing is SAFETY ! yes, it can be done by one person, but a second set of hands is very helpful.

 

[Russell King]

Lugbolt is probably referring to the wiring harness that probably spans across the split line of the tractor

 

[lugbolt]

Thanks Freewheel3 and Lugbolt. Much obliged. What is the "rear harness" Lugbolt mentioned?

Wooden wedges are a good suggestion if I pull the FEL; may be a good, cheap safety precaution during the split even w FEL in place.

The previous owner added an aftermarket (I assume "LP" is Land Pride) third function to the FEL, so I can see how running a grapple and or scoop could wear out a clutch in 10 yrs even if only averaged 30 hrs/yr.

I saw a photo of a pair of Harbor Freight trailer jacks with homemade brackets bolted to the FEL support or mid-case to provide support during split for one (or both) halves. But if I can roll the rear away on my floor jack it will save me >$50 for a single-use (hopefully) pair of modified trailer jacks.

Should I also order a flywheel? What is the likelihood of resurface vs replacement in a clutch burnt-out situation like this? What about seals for hydraulic lines?

Thanks, again!

the wiring harness is one piece for the whole tractor. Disconnect everything from the engine rearward, then drape that half of the harness over the hood rather than disconnecting the front half of the harness and draping it over the back. It can be done either way but the front part is just harder to deal with because of how the fuel tank sits over the top of the engine, among other things.

I don't trust trailer jacks.....having seen a bunch of them fold up, I don't trust them one bit. I'd just as soon use a pair of RV screw jacks, one on each loader frame. I was going to make a setup that would have worked great for splitting tractors since the boss was too cheap to get a real splitting apparatus, but another opportunity came up and I left Kubota dealer work. No kidding we were using cut logs from trees out behind the building to hold tractors up--at a dealership. I even had to use my own saw to cut the wood. I know it costs money to run a dealer but it was honestly, ridiculous. An accident looking for a place to happen.

you don't don't about the flywheel until you get it apart. Kubota does give a specification for resurfacing them but IME, they don't allow much to be removed--and finding someone to resurface it can be problematic due to the design. Most of the automotive stuff is a flat flywheel and tractors sometimes have stepped flywheels that automotive tooling can't deal with very well.

I have never had any luck with alignment studs when splitting Kubota tractors. Some of them have studs already and I think the MX has 4 as I remember, with 4 bolts in the other holes. Realigning is the worst part of the job. I always just wiggled things around and eventually they'd slip together.

 

[Choclero]

Thank you, GreensvilleJay (and others).

Any advice on parts source? There is a nearby and very reputable driveline shop that has a compatible 10-1/4" clutch disk, p-plate, and bearings (all with 1 yr warranty) immediately available for less than half the cost of the nearest genuine Orange dealer. I would gladly save $250+ if not a big deal.

 

[Choclero]

Thank you, GreensvilleJay (and others).

Any advice on parts source? There is a nearby and very reputable driveline shop that has a compatible 10-1/4" clutch disk, p-plate, and bearings (all with 1 yr warranty) immediately available for less than half the cost of the nearest genuine Orange dealer. I would gladly save $250+ if not a big deal.

Thanks, everyone! My MX5100DT is back in action with a new clutch. I drove it up the bluff in HR3 yesterday (couldn't make it in ANY HR gear prior to clutch renewal).
Although Barry at Best Bilt (Springfield, Mo) commented that he had not seen a clutch disk more worn in 29 years of driveline work, the flywheel was not damaged and only required a couple thousandths for resurfacing.
Thanks to the good advice on this forum, I safely made this repair (loader on, rolled back half away on floor jack; not trailer jacks -- thank you, Lugbolt and GreensvilleJay) and saved over $3000. That's about $200/hr! Been awhile since I was paid that well for my time.