Manuals for the L2501 and the BH 77(No loaded rear tires with the BH 77 and no CJ-4 engine oil)

[springer3]

Recently had a new L2501 HST delivered with a FEL, BH 77, and loaded rear tires. The BH 77 manual on Page 7 says no liquid ballast in the rear tires can be used when the backhoe is installed and they don't say why. I'm moving forward, but nobody has a good definitive answer so far as to why?? Does anybody know?

My second question is in the tractor manual on page 75, "CJ-4 engine oil is intended for DPF type engines, and cannot be used on this tractor." Again the question is why?? I have Kubota 15W-40 that I used in my L4760 and see no reason why I can't use it in this one with no DPF. I looked at some old John Deere Plus-50 II oil that I had for my JD 4410 that didn't have DPF and it is CJ-4 and worked for 10 years with no issues. Any oil experts know why Kubota is saying this?

 

[ruger1980]

What does the manual recommend? The latest API rating is now CK4 which should be backward compatible with any current diesel engine. Even CJ4 is going to be backwards compatible to anything prior to that. I really doubt it will matter much given the short oil change interval they recommend But being new it would be safe to use what is recommended for warranty sake.

 

[Nicfin36]

My L2501 came with ballast. I read a little about it, but never found out why they did not recommend ballast in the tires with the backhoe. I am not too worried about it.

When I changed my oil for the 50 hour service, I said to the dealer where I bought my supplies that I was planning to use the Kubota 15W40 oil and nothing was said about it.

 

[springer3]

My L2501 came with ballast. I read a little about it, but never found out why they did not recommend ballast in the tires with the backhoe. I am not too worried about it.

When I changed my oil for the 50 hour service, I said to the dealer where I bought my supplies that I was planning to use the Kubota 15W40 oil and nothing was said about it.

On the ballast issue I'm not going to worry about it either, or empty the tires, and will just move on. just find it frustrating they can't give a reason why.
Same on the oil, I'm just going to use the Kubota 15W40 I have on hand. The manual says you "cannot use CJ-4", but that's what is on the shelf at every tractor dealer or anywhere else with no one making a distinction of DPF vs. non-DPF engine use that I know of. What is really interesting is it's an old school engine that should be compatible with any oil rated for a diesel. Just frustrated that they make a definitive statement that you "cannot use" with nothing to back it up.

 

[L2501dt]

The dealer probably didnt load the tires because the weight of the backhoe will work. Maybe you didnt get the 3 point arms for it so they fogured you would never be taking it off? Not sure. I have a l2501dt and i used the kubota 10w30 that they sell at the dealership for my first service

 

[Nicfin36]

The most plausible thing I read about the loaded tires was it might increase the chance of a full rollover when operating the backhoe with the wheels up in the air. Much of stuff put in manuals is about liability, so it would not surprise me. Perhaps that one guy rolled over his tractor with ballast in his tires and that is why we see it in the manual.

On the oil thing, a member on another tractor site posted this about the same topic back in 2009.:

I contacted Kubota this summer with the same question. If you do a search, you will see that I was told CJ-4 oils are perfectly fine for your diesel tractors. Kubota has not updated their manuals or web site to reflect the change. I was told it is just a matter of time (slow moving corporate issues) before this happens. CJ-4 is the newest spec. for diesel rated oils and is compatible with LSD and ULSD fuels. The oil change intervel is still the same. This really is no longer an issue and you should not be concerned about it. You will see that within a year ALL diesel oils will be a CJ-4 spec. CI spec oil is still avaiable but will shortly be out of stock since the CJ-4 spec replaces it.
I'm sure some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I did my homework and will stick with what the Kubota engineer told me over the phone.
We also discussed viscosity grades and he told me using 5w-40 Rotella or the 15w-40 Rotella (synthetic or otherwise) is fine for where I live (central Virginia).
Hope this helps......

 

[springer3]

The most plausible thing I read about the loaded tires was it might increase the chance of a full rollover when operating the backhoe with the wheels up in the air. Much of stuff put in manuals is about liability, so it would not surprise me. Perhaps that one guy rolled over his tractor with ballast in his tires and that is why we see it in the manual.

On the oil thing, a member on another tractor site posted this about the same topic back in 2009.:

I contacted Kubota this summer with the same question. If you do a search, you will see that I was told CJ-4 oils are perfectly fine for your diesel tractors. Kubota has not updated their manuals or web site to reflect the change. I was told it is just a matter of time (slow moving corporate issues) before this happens. CJ-4 is the newest spec. for diesel rated oils and is compatible with LSD and ULSD fuels. The oil change intervel is still the same. This really is no longer an issue and you should not be concerned about it. You will see that within a year ALL diesel oils will be a CJ-4 spec. CI spec oil is still avaiable but will shortly be out of stock since the CJ-4 spec replaces it.
I'm sure some will disagree with me, and that's fine. I did my homework and will stick with what the Kubota engineer told me over the phone.
We also discussed viscosity grades and he told me using 5w-40 Rotella or the 15w-40 Rotella (synthetic or otherwise) is fine for where I live (central Virginia).
Hope this helps......

Agree, the lawyers had it included, not the engineers who might have said why no loaded tires.
Regarding oil, the only oil I see is CJ-4 spec and nobody makes a distinction of using or not using it in DPF or non-DPF engines. Yet they're saying don't use the higher rated oil in this non-DPF engine, that absolutely makes no sense to me. I'm moving on now, thanks for the input.

 

[ruger1980]

Like I previously stated the latest API rating is CK-4 for diesels unless you have an engine rated for the new FA oils. Most all oils you purchase today will be CK-4 which is backwards compatible with CJ-4 and previous ratings. Use a good quality diesel rated oil and be done with it. All Cj-4 and CK-4 oils are rated for use in T4 emissions engines as well as non EATS engines.

 

[springer3]

Like I previously stated the latest API rating is CK-4 for diesels unless you have an engine rated for the new FA oils. Most all oils you purchase today will be CK-4 which is backwards compatible with CJ-4 and previous ratings. Use a good quality diesel rated oil and be done with it. All Cj-4 and CK-4 oils are rated for use in T4 emissions engines as well as non EATS engines.

Thank you for the response. I agree with what you are saying, I was just trying to find out what Kubota's angle was with their statements in the manual.

 

[GeoHorn]

The reference given as regards DPF engines not approving CJ4 oils is related to a different emissions issue.... It has to do with the EGR valve functions and the warning is explicit and valid.
Simple solution: Do not use CJ-4 oils in Kubotas that tell you not to use it.
(and anyone who relies upon what some “kubota engineer told you over the phone”.... is relying upon Nothing.) Verbal comments are useless when you want to blame some Kubota employee for telling you to violate a specific warning in the Owners Manual.

(I’lll bet that not-only will that guy NOT put his comments in writing.... I’ll bet you didn’t even get his name, date, time, or any other contact info which will protect you when your engine fails to meet specs, didja?).

 

[springer3]

The reference given as regards DPF engines not approving CJ4 oils is related to a different emissions issue.... It has to do with the EGR valve functions and the warning is explicit and valid.
Simple solution: Do not use CJ-4 oils in Kubotas that tell you not to use it.
(and anyone who relies upon what some “kubota engineer told you over the phone”.... is relying upon Nothing.) Verbal comments are useless when you want to blame some Kubota employee for telling you to violate a specific warning in the Owners Manual.

(I’lll bet that not-only will that guy NOT put his comments in writing.... I’ll bet you didn’t even get his name, date, time, or any other contact info which will protect you when your engine fails to meet specs, didja?).

The L2501 has no emissions equipment that I'm aware of(no DPF or EGR) because it's under 25hp. That's why I was asking the question. They state CJ-4 is for DPF engines.

 

[ruger1980]

The reference given as regards DPF engines not approving CJ4 oils is related to a different emissions issue.... It has to do with the EGR valve functions and the warning is explicit and valid.
Simple solution: Do not use CJ-4 oils in Kubotas that tell you not to use it.
(and anyone who relies upon what some “kubota engineer told you over the phone”.... is relying upon Nothing.) Verbal comments are useless when you want to blame some Kubota employee for telling you to violate a specific warning in the Owners Manual.

(I’lll bet that not-only will that guy NOT put his comments in writing.... I’ll bet you didn’t even get his name, date, time, or any other contact info which will protect you when your engine fails to meet specs, didja?).

I would be interested in seeing the documentation that you have stating what oils are acceptable or not for Kubota engines.

 

[GeoHorn]

I would be interested in seeing the documentation that you have stating what oils are acceptable or not for Kubota engines.

It is in various Kubota Manuals which caution against the CJ4 oil. If your manual doesn’t prohibit it....then it likely does not apply. (My RTV-X900 warns against it.)

 

[ruger1980]

This is a snip from KubotaUSA concerning oil standards for diesel engines. Try to find a current production diesel oil that is not rated at a minimum CJ-4 in the market today

**As of May 2012 this information supersedes all previous publications regarding the use of CJ-4

 

[springer3]

This is a snip from KubotaUSA concerning oil standards for diesel engines. Try to find a current production diesel oil that is not rated at a minimum CJ-4 in the market today

View attachment 56088 View attachment 56088
**As of May 2012 this information supersedes all previous publications regarding the use of CJ-4

Thank you Ruger 1980! It's all at least CJ-4 or higher, so how can you say not to use it, especially in an old school engine with no emissions equipment. Again the dealer has only one shelf of oil in some different weights and they are going to sell it to you for any of your tractors and you will be good to go. It's just the manual that has me baffled.

 

[kubotafreak]

Just curious if anyone actually looked at the side load rating on the tires they have on that model? Would be nice to see if it is adequate to support the weight of a loaded backhoe and tractor with loader? I would rest better knowing that my tires are capable of much more (20-30%) more than the static weight of the machine fully dressed. O-Manual blessing or not... Reminds me of the new half tons all rated to tow 10k lbs but 10 ply tires being an OPTION.
If the tire ratings are more than sufficient, it would probably be the weight moving the fully dressed machine around. The hst trans may be on the weak side. Info Kubota probably wont share with the public.

 

[springer3]

Just curious if anyone actually looked at the side load rating on the tires they have on that model? Would be nice to see if it is adequate to support the weight of a loaded backhoe and tractor with loader? I would rest better knowing that my tires are capable of much more (20-30%) more than the static weight of the machine fully dressed. O-Manual blessing or not... Reminds me of the new half tons all rated to tow 10k lbs but 10 ply tires being an OPTION.
If the tire ratings are more than sufficient, it would probably be the weight moving the fully dressed machine around. The hst trans may be on the weak side. Info Kubota probably wont share with the public.

The dealer got back today and said it was the lawyers. They thought it might be due to potential rollovers and the ROPS failing because of the additional weight. I guess it could be that, or what you just said.

 

[GeoHorn]

I don’t understand why some people seem to demand that someone else “prove” to them what is printed by Kubota in Owners Manuals.... but HERE is the page STRAIGHT OUT OF THE KUBOTA RTV-X900 / 1120D OWNERS MANUAL.

Look at the warning immediately below the boxes which describe the oil to be used:

 

[ruger1980]

Yup a manual with a print date of 2009
Did you by chance read the footnote in the clip I pasted? But then I would imagine that in 12 years there is no chance technical specifications could possibly have been updated.

Ahhh What the hell just so you don't have to go look it up.

**As of May 2012 this information supersedes all previous publications regarding the use of CJ-4

 

[whitetiger]

Yup a manual with a print date of 2009
Did you by chance read the footnote in the clip I pasted? But then I would imagine that in 12 years there is no chance technical specifications could possibly have been updated.

Ahhh What the hell just so you don't have to go look it up.

**As of May 2012 this information supersedes all previous publications regarding the use of CJ-4

There was no RTV-X900 or Operators Manual for one in 2009. The manual GeoHorn posted was printed in 2019 I believe.