Made my Dad happy today.

[RCW]

“My” Minneapolis Moline resides at my Dad’s house. It will come to my house someday. Dad is 82. He and my grandfather bought the tractor used in 1956 for the farm. I grew up with it.

He hates the tractor sometimes, but loves it for our farm heritage and memories of his own father.

Wednesday he tried to start it, hears a “clunk” and it’s locked up as if seized.

He called me immediately while I was at work, obviously upset. He thought it was junk with a seized engine.

Long story short, I went there today. I tinkered with starter, and pulled it from the tractor.
Starter was locked to flywheel. All is good, except I have a Delco Remy starter and Bendix to rebuild. Flywheel is boogered up some, but don’t know if that’s directly related to this episode.

When I showed him the engine wasn’t stuck he became very emotional.

My mother said he will finally sleep tonight....

I think I was a good son today.....there’s not too many things I can do to make my Dad happy like I did today.

He can harbor “my” tractor for a long time, I hope....

I will always be glad to fix it if it makes him happy!

 

[Lil Foot]

Great story & well done! Wish I had had more time with my Dad.

 

[bearbait]

Awesome, what Lil Foot said.

 

[BAP]

Great to hear. Those old tractors can be finicky with the starting system. I have a Farmall M doing something similar right now even though I have been through everything and can’t see anything wrong.

 

[12251hd]

Glad you got the starter off. If you can, turn the engine over by hand or crank to ensure nothing else is preventing it to turn over. Old molines are famous for having mice and other critters getting inside the exhaust and debris gets into the cylinder chamber causing the piston to seize at the top stroke. I keep a coke can on my late Dad's "Z" to keep 'em out. Good luck.

 

[skeets]

You are a good son, love him every day and do all you can for them,, I wish I could still do for mine

 

[bucktail]

Awesome, what Lil Foot said.

Had an H that was doing that. We ended up pulling the flywheel heating up the ring gear and rotating it. The engine always stopped in the same place so it wears out the same spot. On the H it was a press fit on the flywheel so it could be rotated. It was back in the 80s so I don't remember if we flipped it or not.

 

[Creature Meadow]

RCW that is awesome, my dad been gone for years died at the young age of 62.

Mom is still kicking and I spend as much time as I can with her. She loves to garden with me, also canning and freezing.

Hope all works out with the tractor and you get her up and running soon.

Jay

 

[RCW]

Thanks guys.

Still work to do, but since we know it’s free and not seized is big.

Dad wants the tractor gone, but he doesn’t want it gone, if that makes sense.

As my mother said Saturday; “the day it rolls out of here will be a bad day...”

Mom expected they would be at the cemetery sometime Saturday so my Dad could tell my grandfather about it. My grandfather passed in 1988....

Goes to show how these aren’t just an “old tractor” for some folks. They represent your heritage, as much as if some of your ancestors were standing beside you with that “old tractor.”

I guess I resemble that remark...

 

[RCW]

I have a Farmall M doing something similar right now even though I have been through everything and can’t see anything wrong.

BAP - by any chance was yours changed from 6v-12?

Guessing your starter is a Delco? Seem to be common to many manufacturers of the era, with variations.
A buddy said the 12v hit the Bendix harder than 6, and could break stuff (springs). Just slapped it harder. If it didn’t break something, they might work funky. Don’t know to be a fact; just what he said.

Mine doesn’t look busted, but not entirely sure what it’s supposed to look like. The little spring doesn’t seem to reliably push the drive gear back. There’s a new Bendix coming from Steiner Tractor
We converted this to 12 volt maybe 35 years ago...

 

[BAP]

RCW, no mine is still the original 6 volt. I think I need to put a set of brushes in it as a couple are wore down pretty good. Haven’t had much time as it was Dad’s tractor and he passed July 13. He insisted I get it hauled home about 3 weeks before he passed and I did manage to get it to run. Now I can’t get the starter to turn over and 1 front tire gave out trailering it home. Hopefully this fall I will have time to get it going again.

 

[BigG]

First I am sorry to hear about your dad's passing.

However you failed the #1 rule if there is no picture there is no old iron. So pony up a picture.

 

[bird dogger]

RCW, from your pic of the armature it sure looks like the commutator (the end where the brushes ride on) could use some cleaning and attention. If you know of anybody locally with a metal lathe they could turn that down for you. The mica insulation between the copper segments should also be under cut. Having that done along with cleaning/freeing up the bendix will have that starter operating like new again. The brush holders could also be cleaned and the general area removed of the carbon dust that accumulates over the years from the brushes wearing away.

If you don't have anybody locally and the armature could fit in a flat rate box and shipped somewhat reasonably.....I'd be more than happy to do that for you. You just pay postage. It's an easy task when you have the right tooling for the job.

I'll try and find some pics for you of another method I use that works great for cleaning up the insides of these and a lot of small motors.

And I still have my thumbs from growing up with dad's old MM "U"!

Edit: RCW, You might find one of these handy for some parts cleanup on that prized Moline!

Spot Sand Blaster For Cleaning Parts and/or Paint Prep!

Here’s a great little spot blaster that I use for quick rust removal and parts cleanup. The Zendex brand is made in the USA, I believe, and their website has replacement parts, etc., for them. And their shipping is extremely reasonable for those parts! I’ve used regular blasting media (fine)...

www.orangetractortalks.com

Regards,
David

 

[Lil Foot]

RCW, from your pic of the armature it sure looks like the commutator (the end where the brushes ride on) could use some cleaning and attention. If you know of anybody locally with a metal lathe they could turn that down for you. The mica insulation between the copper segments should also be under cut. Having that done along with cleaning/freeing up the bendix will have that starter operating like new again. The brush holders could also be cleaned and the general area removed of the carbon dust that accumulates over the years from the brushes wearing away.

Agreed.
And resist the temptation to polish the commutator with sandpaper or scotchbrite. People do it all the time, but it imbeds abrasive particles in the copper & in the insulator material between. That accelerates wear exponentially. Much better to have it turned.

 

[NCL4701]

I live about 100 yards from my 83 year old father. He still has the 9N Ford I grew up with and the Farmall H (complete with trip bucket manure fork redneck re-engineered into a dirt bucket) he grew up with. Both still run and are as usable as ever.

The starters on both of them hang once in a while, as in once in 250 starts, so not worth major effort to fix as it’s likely related to wear and/or minor damage on the flywheel gear (know it is on the 9N).

When the 9N hangs it’s always after the engine starts. Motor is running and Bendix won’t disengage. A two pound hammer to whack the starter to break it loose has been standard equipment on the 9N for the 45 years I’ve driven it.

The H hangs more like the MM that started this post. When trying to start it will click (Bendix pulls in) then hangs without turning the motor over. Acts like the motor is locked but the only thing locked is the Bendix in the one mildly boogered spot on the flywheel. It has a manual crank on it so it’s pretty easy to break loose by cutting the switch off (unless you’re OK with the motor firing while you’re manually cranking) and bumping it with the manual crank a time or two. If it’s moderately quiet in the area you can hear the Bendix click when it breaks loose and the starter gear snaps back. Turn it a little bit to get away from the bad spot on the flywheel and it’s ready to go. Like the 9N it’s been that way as long as I’ve been associated with it, it’s never gotten better or worse, and it isn’t common enough to justify repair. The crank handle is stored under a clip on the platform sort of under the seat at all times.

I guess the point of all that was two things: 1) I’m glad I finally bought a modern tractor with a real loader so we can get some stuff done around here. 2) I don’t know if the OP’s MM is old enough to have a manual crank or not as I’m not much familiar with them. If it does, and the starter is just hanging in a rough spot on the flywheel like my father’s H, I’d consider keeping the crank handle somewhere on the tractor all the time and take the one minute necessary to bust it loose when it hangs every 100th start rather than replacing the flywheel ring gear on a sentimental tractor that is rarely started.

 

[RCW]

Thanks so much for the advice guys.....probably haven’t heard the end of the topic yet.
I’ve replaced many starters on cars/trucks, but never rebuilt one. New territory for me.
The tractor does have a crank, and we couldn’t free it with that. It’s always kept on the tractor.

 

[RCW]

Guys - - - I'm going to start a thread in the "Projects" section for Delco Remy Starter Restoration.

David a/k/a birdogger and Bill a/k/a Lil Foot, I may well need some help along the way.....