M7040 Hydraulic shuttle stuck

[Patchwork]

I have a 2007 Kubota M7040 DTC. It has around 1600hrs on it. I was out working with it yesterday. Stopped to take a break and when I got back in, I couldn't get it to shift into any gear; so it wouldn't start. It was parked to where it was leaning to the right so I thought that maybe I left it in gear and it was binding up. I jacked it up and the wheels are spinning freely. I still can't get it to shift between F-N-R. I removed the column cover, everything looks to be attached. The clutch has the normal amount of pressure. I had my wife press the clutch while I was underneath and it's engaging, but when she tries to move the shifter, there is no movement below. I was told there were fuses and switches to look at. I don't have a manual, but I haven't found a location for a switch online and none of the fuse box diagrams nor the notes on the boxes say anything about safety switches, etc.

Any ideas?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not a clue but... my 2004 and 2002 hydraulic shuttle M9's have safety switches that prevent starting unless the shuttle is in neutral but don't restrict movement. The shuttle selector is direct cable to the valve. I'm wonder if your cable failed inside the outer jacket.

The clutch pedal on a hydraulic shuttle has no linkage per se' either. It's also cabled to the modulating valve.

 

[Patchwork]

Not a clue but... my 2004 and 2002 hydraulic shuttle M9's have safety switches that prevent starting unless the shuttle is in neutral but don't restrict movement. The shuttle selector is direct cable to the valve. I'm wonder if your cable failed inside the outer jacket.

The clutch pedal on a hydraulic shuttle has no linkage per se' either. It's also cabled to the modulating valve.

I went out to try and take a look at the cables. When I did I noticed that the clutch cable when not pressed has a little "give" to it. The shuttle cable is as tights as a banjo string. I mean it is tight top and bottom.

 

[SidecarFlip]

The clutch cable should as it has to have 1-1 1/4" free play in it. The shuttle cable don't. In has to be tight at both ends with no freeplay or your shuttle lever wouldn't actuate the valve properly. Wonder if something let go in the valve body.

Beyond my expertise.

 

[Dave_eng]

Lets start with what your tractor actually has. Not a hydraulic shuttle but a synchro shuttle.

On the sync shuttle models there is an actual dry clutch disk like on a car. Contrast with the hydraulic shuttle models where there is no dry clutch.

Proper adjustment of the dry clutch is important.

Going through the attached checking and adjustment procedures for your shuttle is the next thing to do.

Any electrical switch will just be a safety device to prevent starting in gear so not likely to interfere with your lever.

Remove the shifter cover and check for something having come loose.

After that things get expensive.

Dave

 

[Patchwork]

Thanks Dave, I’ll start looking at this in the morning. Another thing I didn’t mention that may or may not make a difference...I was in 4WD when I shut it off. When my limited knowledge hit the wall today on trouble shooting, I had to move the tractor out of the way. When I went to pull it, she wouldn’t budge which I thought was weird. I had my wife push the clutch in and she rolled on out without an issue. I assume that even though I disengage the 4WD when it didn’t start that it won’t fully disengage until full power is resumed?

This is just so bizarre considering it was running fine till I cut it off

 

[sflight]

Are you saying your shifter that you use to shift into gears on the right side of the cab is stuck where it won't move at all? And just to clarify, do you have the shuttle shifter on the left side of the steering column where you can move it to forward, neutral, and reverse? And is you 4x4 engagement/disengagement a pull up or push down handle on the lower left side of your seat?

 

[SidecarFlip]

Sorry Dave, I should have looked at the model number prefix better. I was under the false assumption it was a hydraulic shuttle like the ones I have. A sychro shuttle is an entirely different animal. I'm adverse to any dry clutch, always have been.

Sounding to me like a main clutch issue in as much as it don't have the required amount of freeplay (1-1 1/4") measured at the clutch pedal.

OP says he don't have a manual. I wonder if he means WSM or owners manual because the owners manual will call out the freeplay setting for the main clutch.

Don't believe I've ever owned any tractor without at least the owners manual.

 

[Patchwork]

Are you saying your shifter that you use to shift into gears on the right side of the cab is stuck where it won't move at all? And just to clarify, do you have the shuttle shifter on the left side of the steering column where you can move it to forward, neutral, and reverse? And is you 4x4 engagement/disengagement a pull up or push down handle on the lower left side of your seat?

Correct, My shifter with gears 1-4 is on the right side of the cab. They move freely from one gear to the next.

My shuttle F-N-R (top to bottom) is on the left side of the column. That is the issue.

The tractor was in 4x4 when I shut it off. When I went to start it back up, I thought I put it in neutral and it wouldn't start. I noticed it was in 4x4 so I pushed the handle down, tried to adjust the shifter and that's when I noticed that it felt funny and wouldn't move all the way; I tried to start again and it would not....as if it was in gear.

After some some consultation, that's when I jacked the rear-end up to find that the rear wheels turned freely in both directions with or without the clutch pressed in. So it's in neutral...tractor doesn't know it so it won't start?

I took the column cover off and do not see anything unhooked. The cable boot at the bottom of the is column is split. The clutch pedal still has really good pressure. There has been no noticeable change to how the clutch engages the transmission.

Under the tractor the clutch arm/ linkage moves freely and you can feel it slide easily inside the boot. The shifter has little to no movement inside the boot to the touch. I did tap the shifter arm a little with a pry bar and when my wife moved the shifter up top to change the F/R it did attempt to move.

I had to move the tractor to get a concrete truck in. Since the wheels where moving freely, I thought no problem. I chained it up...nothing. I told my wife to push the clutch in and it rolled right along. So it must still be in 4x4 and the front wheels were holding it?

Again, I know anything mechanical can break any time...it's just odd that it was running/ shifting fine until I shut it off. I've shut it off in 4x4 before (not a common practice as I don't use it that often) and there wasn't an issue.

 

[SidecarFlip]

After all the comments back and forth, I tend to think you have clutch issues.

 

[Dave_eng]

After some some consultation, that's when I jacked the rear-end up to find that the rear wheels turned freely in both directions with or without the clutch pressed in. So it's in neutral...tractor doesn't know it so it won't start?

I am not certain this test you did establishes that the tractor is in neutral. If both rear wheels were off the ground and both were turned by hand in the same direction and rotated, then I agree it is in neutral however, if one wheel turned forward and the other stayed stationary or turned in the opposite direction, all you are seeing is the action of the differential.

Dave

 

[Patchwork]

I am not certain this test you did establishes that the tractor is in neutral. If both rear wheels were off the ground and both were turned by hand in the same direction and rotated, then I agree it is in neutral however, if one wheel turned forward and the other stayed stationary or turned in the opposite direction, all you are seeing is the action of the differential.

Dave

HI Dave, Thanks for jumping in! Yes, my wife and I both took a wheel and turned them forward and then backward at the same time.

 

[Patchwork]

Don't believe I've ever owned any tractor without at least the owners manual.

Well, the tractor was used and I honestly don't remember if I got the manual or not. I've had it almost two years and I purchased it right after I bought the land to build my house...at which point it decided to start raining, and raining, and raining. We had two hurricanes come through a few months apart. From September of 2018 to February of 2019 it rained about 8' lol Since then it's rained at least 1-2 days a week. You would think I lived on a tropical island instead of NC! lol

 

[Patchwork]

After all the comments back and forth, I tend to think you have clutch issues.

Like maybe it's stuck inside the transmissions casing? When I was watching the clutch underneath, the linkage and arm, they all move freely with no issues and at the same time. It's smooth and not clunky or jerky. Has the same firm pressure it's always had. It's not loose or anything. I know it's not a car/ truck, but I do know what a clutch feels like in those when they go out. Fun times!

 

[SidecarFlip]

Like maybe it's stuck inside the transmissions casing? When I was watching the clutch underneath, the linkage and arm, they all move freely with no issues and at the same time. It's smooth and not clunky or jerky. Has the same firm pressure it's always had. It's not loose or anything. I know it's not a car/ truck, but I do know what a clutch feels like in those when they go out. Fun times!

Just because the actualtion linkage moves freely, don't mean the clutch or pressure plate isn't wonky.

I'll be curious to her the final outcome but irregardless, sounds like it's split time, dealer or backyard.

 

[whitetiger]

Correct, My shifter with gears 1-4 is on the right side of the cab. They move freely from one gear to the next.

My shuttle F-N-R (top to bottom) is on the left side of the column. That is the issue.

The tractor was in 4x4 when I shut it off. When I went to start it back up, I thought I put it in neutral and it wouldn't start. I noticed it was in 4x4 so I pushed the handle down, tried to adjust the shifter and that's when I noticed that it felt funny and wouldn't move all the way; I tried to start again and it would not....as if it was in gear.
Whether or not it is in 4x4 makes no difference when starting the tractor.

After some some consultation, that's when I jacked the rear-end up to find that the rear wheels turned freely in both directions with or without the clutch pressed in. So it's in neutral...tractor doesn't know it so it won't start?

I took the column cover off and do not see anything unhooked. The cable boot at the bottom of the is column is split. The clutch pedal still has really good pressure. There has been no noticeable change to how the clutch engages the transmission.

Under the tractor the clutch arm/ linkage moves freely and you can feel it slide easily inside the boot. The shifter has little to no movement inside the boot to the touch. I did tap the shifter arm a little with a pry bar and when my wife moved the shifter up top to change the F/R it did attempt to move.
Disconnect the F-N-R cable from the link on the transmission and try to shift the F-N-R lever. It probably will not move. Then disconnect the cable at the top where it connects to the F-N-R lever. The lever will now move and putting it in "N" will allow the tractor to start. You will find at this point that the F-N-R shift cable is frayed inside the sheathing and bound itself up. You will need to replace the cable.

I had to move the tractor to get a concrete truck in. Since the wheels where moving freely, I thought no problem. I chained it up...nothing. I told my wife to push the clutch in and it rolled right along. So it must still be in 4x4 and the front wheels were holding it?
Are you sure the 4 speed did not get shifted into gear? Whether the front axel is engaged or disengaged makes no difference.
Your wife pushing in the clutch and it then being free to roll pretty much rules out the clutch and also implies the 4 speed is engaged.

Again, I know anything mechanical can break any time...it's just odd that it was running/ shifting fine until I shut it off. I've shut it off in 4x4 before (not a common practice as I don't use it that often) and there wasn't an issue.
There is no neutral safety switch on the 4x4 shifter, it is on the F-N-R lever. That is what has to be in "N" to crank the engine.
If you disconnect the shuttle cable from the F-N-R lever and move it to N, you can start and drive the tractor as the shuttle is either in F or R. You will not be able to change direction though.

 

[sflight]

Oh man. This is a tough one. Sorry I could not be of assistance. Please let us all know the outcome.

 

[Tx Jim]

I once owned a M4900 with synchro-shuttle that the synchronizers failed & tractor was locked in reverse similar to OP's tractor. I had to have tractor split & reverser assembly replaced. Repair cost me $2000 & that was 12 or 13 yrs ago.

 

[Patchwork]

Well I called the dealership...they said to split it and fix it would run $2500-$3000 depending on if it’s clutch or synchronizers or both. But before I bring it in they wanted me to pull the casing apart at the ends. I finally got the time to do it about 20 minutes ago with my brother-in-law and nephew. The cable was knotted at the end of the bar and almost at the point of breaking. Once that sheathing was pulled back the shifter itself moved freely but I kind of expected that, but with where the knotted up part of the cable is at, it wasn’t allowing any movement to progress down stream. I’m going to start with ordering a new cable. If that’s a fix...$100 is BLESSING!!! I was not looking forward to an hour drive and a $3000 repair.

 

[Patchwork]

I have an update....
Pulled the casing back under the dash and the cable was shredded inside the cover. I got a new cable and now I have to figure out how to get my big hands in there to change it out. Fishing it through the holes was easy. Getting my hands in there to loosen the bolts... not so much. It looks like I might have to drop the fuel tank?

Also, I mentioned there was the weird thing about the back wheels spinning but the front still locked in 4x4. Well, I had my wife pull the handle while I was underneath because on second look, something didn’t look quite right. Anyone got an M4070 DTC they can take a picture of the same location and show me what it should look like?