M5040 PTO Problem

[hillbilly1]

I have owned this Kubota for 6 or 7 years and now have my first major problem. My son was baling hay yesterday and said he heard a strange noise from the PTO. Shut down immediately and unhooked the baler, but said when he restarted the tractor the PTO continued to spin. He had to drive down a hill to get to the truck and when he got to where he could load the tractor, he shut it down again. When he started it a second time to load it, he said he noticed the PTO shaft was no longer turning.

Now, when we start it, there is a knocking in the transmission. It is difficult to figure out exactly where it is coming from. I was standing at the rear and couldn't even decide if it was from the left or right side of the center of the transmission, so I figure it must be close to the center. It also sounds as if it is not at the rear, but toward the front of the transmission. It is a continuous knock. We engaged the PTO and the noise did not seem to change. However, when we disengaged the PTO the shaft kept spinning again.

The transmission is the basic straight drive, I believe my Kubota manual calls it synchro shuttle. I have a 4 speed transmission with a separate high/low shift beside the seat and the forward/reverse lever under the left side of the steering wheel.

Has anybody had any experience with this type of issue? Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sound to me like the most likely issue could be the clutch assembly.
I sent you a PM to download the service manual, I'll also have a look at it and see If I can offer any more insight.

 

[D2Cat]

Does your tractor have a dual clutch? It sounds like the fingers for the PTO function are failing.

 

[hillbilly1]

I appreciate both of you taking time to help me.

 

[1970cs]

Again, we don't have enough information! Which transmission hydraulic shuttle or DT? Hours on the machine? I assuming a square baler? Both have IPTO. It's possible since the PTO output shaft is still turning that the clutch plates are warped due to stress and heat. Does the PTO run constantly on or off?

Pat

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

hillbilly1,
Your tractor is a independent hydraulic PTO clutch (so the main mechanical clutch has no effect on it's operation) and the Clutch pack is right in front of the differential (#70), you would need to split it just in front of the rear end to get to it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Again, we don't have enough information! Which transmission hydraulic shuttle or DT? Hours on the machine? I assuming a square baler? Both have IPTO. It's possible since the PTO output shaft is still turning that the clutch plates are warped due to stress and heat. Does the PTO run constantly on or off?

Pat

I think he gave more than enough information?

 

[1970cs]

I think he gave more than enough information?

What I am getting at is there is a certain horsepower requirement for a baler or any other PTO driven implement, even a twenty year New Holland 570 square baler requires a 65 horsepower to run it without even considering a bale kicker, hydroformatic and wagon or bale basket behind the baler.

The reason for more information and you see quite a few my post is that there is not enough detail to make a diagnosis. No doubt he had more than others for sure. But again if even if we tell how to fix what is wrong with the tractor and under horsepower for the given application, it will do the same thing down the road.

Pat

 

[hillbilly1]

Again, we don't have enough information! Which transmission hydraulic shuttle or DT?

The actual model on the paperwork is a M 5040 DT-1. I don't know what else to say about the transmission other than what I originally said, "The transmission is the basic straight drive, I believe my Kubota manual calls it synchro shuttle. I have a 4 speed transmission with a separate high/low shift beside the seat and the forward/reverse lever under the left side of the steering wheel."

Hours on the machine?

About 1500 is all.

I assuming a square baler?

Small round baler that is supposed to require 45 HP.

Both have IPTO. It's possible since the PTO output shaft is still turning that the clutch plates are warped due to stress and heat. Does the PTO run constantly on or off?

Looking at it some more today, I found if the PTO is engaged while the engine is running it continues to turn when the lever is moved to the disengage position and I hear the knocking. However, when the tractor is not running, I can shift the lever back and forth, disengage the lever before starting the engine, and PTO does not turn and I don't hear the knocking sound until I engage the lever again when the tractor is running.

Most of my experience has been with 30+ years old Fords, and I vaguely remember someone once saying something about a sticking PTO switching mechanism causing some problems with the PTO hanging, and I have been trying to locate information regarding a sticking cable but can't find anything that is close to this problem. I also don't believe it would be a sticking cable because I believe my Kubota uses hydraulic pressure to engage the PTO clutch instead of mechanical gears shifting.

I know there is always more info that could help and I will gladly post any additional info that may help find a resolution to this issue. Thanks to anybody that is willing to help.

 

[hillbilly1]

hillbilly1,
Your tractor is a independent hydraulic PTO clutch (so the main mechanical clutch has no effect on it's operation) and the Clutch pack is right in front of the differential (#70), you would need to split it just in front of the rear end to get to it.

Thanks for this info. I believed it to be an IPTO clutch as the PTO remains live when I clutch to stop. I thought I would try to fix it, thinking removal of the rear cover of the axle around the PTO shaft would get me to the area I needed. However, from I learned from people on this forum kind enough to give me some advice and what I found looking at the parts diagram, I thought I would have to split it to get to the PTO clutch. I am going to check with a dealer because, like everybody else putting up hay, I needed this thing fixed yesterday. I also know if I have to split it, the dealer has the tools and expertise to do the job quickly, where I would have to muddle through. Anybody with experience in mechanics knows there are always little tricks that come with experience to make a job easier. As an example, I remember putting an alternator on a diesel Toyota and finding a small groove that you had to line up correctly to remove a bolt. The dealer told me you had to disconnect the engine mounts and jack the engine up, eating up 4-5 hours for a 1 hour job.

If anybody has any other ideas or an idea of what replacing the PTO clutch will cost, please let me know. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[1970cs]

It's a pretty simple system. Hydraulic activated through a valve applying hydraulic fluid through the manifold(piece labeled figure d26XX) #120's are sealing rings sitting in groves on part#70 which then in gauges the piston to apply power to the clutch.

The knocking noise could be a bearing that supports the PTO clutch assembly or related shaft. My past experience with hydraulic clutches. Piled up or warped separators or discs, bled off due to worn manifold or sealing rings.

Not a lot of choice but to split the tractor at transmission/rear differential housing and inspect for damaged parts.

A service manual would be wise if you are going to tackle it yourself. Or if the dealer where going to order your parts may copy or lend theirs?

Pat